Re: GS1100 Clutch Rattling Noise @ Low RPMs !!

[jadesystem]

Re: GS1100 Clutch Rattling Noise @ Low RPMs !!

April 9, 2008

Hello GS Brothers,

I have a clutch problem - any of you ever have a rattling sound at low RPM's ?? I thought I resolved this by welding the loose flywheel springs
and going over and inspecting the plates, springs, throw-out bearings
and basket grooves, but I still have this rattling noice. The clutch feels awesome and is smoother than before. All the springs are within height
and tolerance specs.

I can't figure this out !! It sounds like a motor rod bearing going out,
but this is not the case. When I depress the clutch (disengage the
clutch from the motor), it does not rattle. When engaged, and as I increase the RPM's to a higher idle at 1100+, it goes away. Any idle
RPM's less than 1000RPMs will rattle. It does not effect performance,
just freaks-out everyone when I'm parked idle at a red light. It also
drives me crazy sometimes.

Someone told me the clutch basket needs to be "balanced" - whatever
that means ??

Any resolution would be highly appreciated.

Ken
San Jose, CA :-D

 

[phaserburn]

On your clutch basket, there is a large nut behind the friction plates. You need to tighten that nut to factory specs (36 - 50.5 lb-ft torque). You will need a 1.25" socket for this

Same problem plagued me. Its a loose clutch sleeve hub nut. My bike sounded like a diesel motor at the idle....

 

[Frankenzuki]

rattle

rattle

Ken,

Check your carb sync. That is also a problem that can make the basket rattle at idle

 

[Shin-Ken 1074]

Hi Ken,
Clutch rattle in the big bore GS Suzi's is a common trait in many of them here in Oz. Each of mine has and still have clutch rattle. After replacing plates and overhaul ( 260,000 km on original clutch plates) the rattle is still there. It's a given with these machines here and yes it sounds like a paint tin half full of nails being thrown down a flight of stairs, but after all these years I'd miss the sound if it wasn't there. May not be the issue with your machine, just my view on the rattle from mine, cheers.

 

[Billyboy]

Hi Ken,
Clutch rattle in the big bore GS Suzi's is a common trait in many of them here in Oz. Each of mine has and still have clutch rattle. After replacing plates and overhaul ( 260,000 km on original clutch plates) the rattle is still there. It's a given with these machines here and yes it sounds like a paint tin half full of nails being thrown down a flight of stairs, but after all these years I'd miss the sound if it wasn't there. May not be the issue with your machine, just my view on the rattle from mine, cheers.

10-4

.......................

 

[jadesystem]

Re: GS1100 Clutch Rattle Noise

Re: GS1100 Clutch Rattle Noise

Hello GS Brothers,

In receipt of your technical expertise and cordial reply, thank you very much. And I do appreciate to all of those that responded. One reply suggested that I retighten the lock nut - is this item #6 in the drawing ??

If this is so, I will need a special tool wrench to secure the hub as I retighten it solid. There is no way it can become loose because I've bent the washer's edge to secure the nut at 2 flat edges of the nut.

On #1 where the "flywheel" end is, there are 6 springs imbedded on
this huge "gear". These springs were loose and cannot be removed.
I would imagine these springs are there for stress in the rotation and
drive.

Suzuki does not offer these springs and does not want you to replace them - they want you to replace the entire hub, hence the #1 part number. So I welded them in place thinking this would solve the rattling
problem. I've never seen a problem quite like this. I could just increase
the idle to 1000-1050 and just live with it to enjoy my summer. Whenever I am at a stoplight, and the rattling noise turns heads, I tell them I have
a diesel engine...lol!!~ It shuts them up as they are truly bewildered.

Thanks again guys,

Ken
San jose, CA :-D


e

 

[phaserburn]

#6 is indeed the nut, please remember the torque is quite much on it (36 - 50.5 lb-ft torque). If it is loose, the basket will rattle. I would unbend your lock tabs, get a 1 1/4" socket and make sure it is tight. I put my engine in gear, and locked the back wheel with a piece of wood against the swing arm (through the spokes of a mag wheel, do not do this with spokes!) to make sure I got it tight enough. I dont have the special tool either and didnt want to bend the hub teeth with a screwdriver trying to lock it in place.

I didnt come loose. It just was never tight and locked in place loose.

I cant vouch for the springs on the back of the hub....

 

[posplayr]

Just some ideas

Just some ideas

Apparently the OEM clutch backing plate is not very stiff. There are various upgrades and sometime you can find an upgraded clutch hub on Ebay. This is supposed to help rattles.

http://gszone.biz/

******************************
APE "GORILLA" CLUTCH HUB ASSEMBLIES
The strongest modified clutch hub assemblies available. Consisting of our heavy duty clutch hub kits installed on customer supplied clutch hub. We must have a good clutch basket / gear assembly from the customer.GHS1100 Suzuki GS1100/GS1150 $299.00 ******************************

It is also recommended (RapidRay) that your replace the #6 item nut with the APE unit
******************************
SUZUKI HEAVY DUTY CLUTCH HUB NUT CLUTCH HUB NUT
The factory Suzuki hub nuts are soft, allowing the threads to deform and come loose. This allows the hub assembly to wobble. The APE nuts are CNC machined from heat treated chrome moly steel. End of problem.SHN1150 Suzuki GS1100 / GS1150 $24.95
******************************

Lastly and this might be a long shot but my PO has installed flat washer item #2 behind washer #8 instead of where it goes. It would rattle on the shaft (move it by hand). I got that squared away but have not had the bike back together to try.

Also as mentioned before, apparently carb balance at idle can exacerbate any clutch noises. My GS1100ED sounded like top end noise when I first got it. I felt a little bad as I bought it at risk, but later saw a utube video of someone with a clutch that sounded like a rod must be sticking out the side and they simply tightened it up and problems went away.

My GS1100Ed first day I rode it home. You can probably hear some rattle in the audio.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r-QzfHjJEHg&NR=1


Hope something helps.

Posplayr

 

[silverhorse47]

holy uckfay!

surely one would consider simply pushing a blunt instrument, like a fat chisel, through the gaps of item number 12, to intensify the force prior to grinding these same springs down a little?
Experts will be required, likely.

S.

 

[Billyboy]

Um... You welded what?:shock:

 

[jadesystem]

Hi Billy Boy,

I welded the loose springs on the "flywheel" thinking this was the cause
of the rattling sound - I was wrong. These 6 springs are imbedded on
the huge "flywheel gear" at the end of the basket hub. 3 of the springs
were loose and cannot be removed. So I arc welded them securely onto the flywheel. I would imagine these springs are there for stress in the rotation, power transfer, and drive.

As mentioned, Suzuki does not offer these springs and does not want
you to replace them - they want you to replace the entire hub, hence
the #1 part number. I don't think these sprngs should be loose anyways.

I have another question, look at the drawing again. What is #31 ??
According to the parts list, this is a dampener. This piece fell out
and looks like it goes on the gear between #18 and #1. I did not bother
to put it back on because it was broken. And may not be needed.

What is your opinion to this ?? And for the welding of the springs ??

Thanks in advance,

Ken
San Jose, CA :-D

So I welded them in place thinking this would solve the rattling
problem. I've never seen a problem quite like this. I could just increase
the idle to 1000-1050 and just live with it to enjoy my summer. Whenever I am at a stoplight, and the rattling noise turns heads, I tell them I have
a diesel engine...lol!!~ It shuts them up as they are truly bewildered.

Thanks again guys

 

[Billyboy]

So you welded spring 12 to part 11?

And the reason is because the screws were stripped I assume?

 

[jadesystem]

One last questions guys - where do I purchase this Clutch APE Nut at ??
This is a very good and valid resolution to this rattling issue. I know I
installed it tight with a thick scewdriver securing the hub as I tightened the nut. But your comments recommend 50lbs of torque so I will do so
on the next oil change. Hassle to drain the oil because must take the
V&H pipes off for oil drain plug access. This is why I don't like Vance
and Hines. It also defeats my center stand !!

I will put the biike in high gear, then torque it with a long breaker bar
and deep socket and then check the torque with a torque wrench at 50lbs.

Thanks guys \\/

 

[Billyboy]

You should be able to put it on it's sidestand and pop the cover without draining the oil. put the rear tire on a 2x4 for extra lean if need be.

 

[jadesystem]

NO - NO - NO!! Part #1 is the Clutch Basket Hub. On the other end of the basket is the flywheel - a huge drive gear. On the face of the gear
which you cannot see in the drawing - only the back of this gear is
shown - are 6-8 imbedded springs. They are there to absorb energy
during the stress of the transfer of power from the engine to the
transmission. These imbedded springs (3) were loose, so I had them spotwelded on the spring ends. This way these springs can still do its function and purpose. The springs are not loose anymore at the flywheel. But it still rattles at idle. So the recommendation of the APE nut and
50 lbs of torque makes sense.

I did look into this when I had the clutch apart - I checked to see if there
was anything loose or a wobble. I did not see anything. I probably
cannot detect it since it is so minute and only can hear it when running
at idle.

Thanks again guys \\/

 

[hampshirehog]

You can get a special tool to hold the clutch basket while you tighten / untighten that nut. Or you can use the universal tool, fits all bikes, an old blanket or bath towel. You remove the plates and thread a bit of the towel through the slits; then wind as much towel around the basket as you can. Then start to un / tighten the nut - the whole basket will turn as you take up slack in the towel the you'll hit a point were the towel 'bites' and you can un / tighten away to your heart's content. Trick from my dad - used on all Jap / Brit / Italian / eastern European bikes, just keep an eye on the towel to make sure it doesn't bite into anything a bit flimsy that can bend.

The standard clutch rattle is indeed those springs.

 

[posplayr]

Rapid Ray has suggested using an air wrench

Rapid Ray has suggested using an air wrench

I did use the same to remove all of the big nuts on the bike (clutch,rotor,drive gear). No holding device is required. The inertia of the motor holds the respective shafts in place while the air wench torques on or off.

Posplayr

PS: nice selection of hp GS parts including the clutch nut

http://gszone.biz/

PS2: If you are trying to get rid of rattles, I would think that you don't want to remove rubber parts (may just be me). Order the little rubber part

 

[jadesystem]

Many Thanks to all you GS Brothers !!

Many Thanks to all you GS Brothers !!

Many thanks to all you GS Brothers....the best technical advice with
excellent GS references for and from GS bikers like yourselves.

Much thought and technical analysis from nice people who care about helping others for the upkeep and enjoyment of these great classic machines.

What a great bunch of guys who truly enjoy the art of motorcycliing
with these classic GS bikes of yesteryear. And who offer hope with
passion to get these bikes up and running with their broad technical
knowledge and expertise.

This is what the Internet is made for...........free, easy access, sharing information, and commeraderie !! \\/