Rear Tire Removal to Service Spline, And Change To A Harder One

[joejeweler]

Today i was going to upgrade my 1982 GS850GL rear spline to the harder "black" 1979 GS850G one i picked up
on ebay a week ago. I was waiting for the Honda Moly 60 paste lube to get here, and that arrived yeaterday to
allow me to properly lube the splines for long life.

I've never taken the tires off this bike on my own, although the dealer did have them off less than a month ago
to put 2 new tires on that i bought there.

After the tire was off i discovered a scary cut on the sidewall, which i'm considering a "lucky" thing at this point!
Here's the post i made of that, with some pics: http://www.thegsresources.com/_forum/showthread.php?t=194639

Anyway, i thought i would outline a few of the other little things i ran into, that might save you some aggravation
should you run into the same thing.

The rear tire removal as shown on BassCliff's post is a bit different than on my bike. His axle exits the left side
(in driving position), mine exits to the right.

He covers some of the preliminary items you need to do, such as removing the top rear shock nuts and loosening
the bottom shock nuts to allow the top of the shocks to be slid off the studs.

The caliper support arm cotter pin and bolt have to be removed at the rear caliper, so that you can remove the
rear caliper and get it out of the way. I then moved the right side shock off the upper stud and layed it forward
on the swingarm, with some folded up paper towels in between to act as a cushion for the paint. I got the rear
brake hose clear of the shock also.

With the new SS line i just installed a few days ago, i found the caliper could be positioned on the upper right
shock stud as shown below. There wasn't enough shock stud to allow the nut to secure it, so i just tied it in
place with some rope to keep the caliper pulled against the frame while on the shock stud. This way
the SS brake hose was not stressed.

One problem i had was when i tried to loosen the axle nut, the axle would spin before the nut would break free.

The axle was spinning at the other side,.....at this point,...(note the slot in the axle is NOW alligned with the slot in the swing arm)

Even with the bolt back in and secured on the right side to put tension on the axle, the main axle nut would not
break free before the axle would spin.........

.......and then i noticed the sort of "key-way" built into the right side of the axle. After loosening the right side
axle securing bolt, i used a wrench on the left side main axle nut to spin the axle until the axle key-way lined up
with the slot in the right side swing arm (as pictured above).......

.......and stuck a flat handled stainless steel spoon handle in the key-way to LOCK the axle and keep it from spinning,....as shown here:

(spoon was filling the slot more while actually turning the axle nut, i took the pic later and didn't notice it shifted):

Once the spoon was in place, i put a little clamping pressure back on the right side bolt to prevent any strain
on the swing arm cut out and help hold the axle steady. The main left side axle nut could then be removed to
free the axle.

At this point, i had to release the left side shock in order to have access to the axle to tap it out.
......and again, on my model the axle exits to the RIGHT!

By releasing the left side shock also, the swing arm is lowered to allow access to the end of the axle. I had a
section of 1/2" oak dowl that i cut about an 8" piece out of, and used that as a punch to safely tap the axle out
without buggering up the threads.

After the axle was out, i had to lift the left shock back up to it's upper stud, to get the rear wheel off the ground
and allow for some "wiggling" room to work the tire/rim off the spline of the final drive unit.

.....and the wheel came right out!

As i suspected, the tire dealer did not add any grease to the splines while he had the wheel off for tire replacement.
This is what 30 year old grease looks like on the final drive unit spline! It's a hard stick on glue at this point!!!

......and 30 year old grease on the wheel part of the spline:

Once i had access to the wheel spline, the fold over tabs bent back pretty easy, but there's not much clearance
for a socket to get at the bolts! I finally found a "thin-wall" 10mm socket that just barely got a grip on the bolts.
(don't even try to use a phillips screwdriver, there was red locktite on the factory installed bolts!)

With a little patience the bolts came out, and i kept them in order of the holes they came out,....just to avoid
an unnecessary problems.

Once the bolts were out, i was surprised at just how tight the wheel spline posts were in the bushings! I used an
old long handled flat screwdriver as a pry bar, and placed a heavy vinyl piece (from a socket purchase at Sears) against
the wheel hub to prevent gouging it while i was using the pry bar.

You'll find it best to go just a little bit, and move the pry bar a few inches and do some more,......working your
way around the entire hub to get the spline out without tipping it too much.

Here's my pry bar setup:

Once the old spline was out, i wiped the hub down to make sure the replacement would lay on a flat surface.
Since the posts on the wheel spline were steel, and the hub rubber cushions had steel centers, i decided to wipe
a little of the Honda moly 60 along the posts. Nut sure how much wear that will prevent, but it will help on the
next spline removal! (and keep rust at bay also)

....then placed the spline down into the hub, and tapped it down flush with the wooded oak dowl i had made.
The 2 spacers and 2 bolts at each of the 3 hold down areas were bolted down, (add a little blue Loc-Tite for
insurance on the bolt threads), and one tab was folded up on each screw to keep them from working loose like
the factory had done.

...and there she is, waiting to be lubed with "Honda Moly 60",...AFTER i get the $#@%&*! NEW tire replaced next week!

 

[joejeweler]

BTW,....the 1982 spline i removed off the hub wasn't as bad as i thought it might be. 14,425 miles
on the bike, with just a shallow groove worn into each tooth. This spline has many miles left on it,
will make a good spare......

................with a fresh lube with Honda Moly 60!

It's a bit silver in color,......maybe a leftover from the good old "harder alloy" days of production? The last
4000 miles i've put on the bike, and i'm sure the dry spines didn't help any. But then i'm pretty light on
the throttle!

.....a few other views:

 

[twr1776]

Joe, I would be not real happy with the dealer for not putting anything on the spline before re-assembling it when they changed the tires out. I realize the dealers tire monkeys are probably younger than the bike but............ they should know enough to lube the spline. Will they change the tires for less if you bring them in on the rims and then install them yourself? I would check ALL the fasteners before riding if you ever take it back in to them, not lubing the splines IHMO means they did not know what they are doiing.

Your write up looks good but did you put some blue loc-tite on the spline bolts?

 

[joejeweler]

Joe, I would be not real happy with the dealer for not putting anything on the spline before re-assembling it when they changed the tires out. I realize the dealers tire monkeys are probably younger than the bike but............ they should know enough to lube the spline. Will they change the tires for less if you bring them in on the rims and then install them yourself? I would check ALL the fasteners before riding if you ever take it back in to them, not lubing the splines IHMO means they did not know what they are doiing.

Your write up looks good but did you put some blue loc-tite on the spline bolts?

Yep,....blue loc-tite was added,.....forgot to mention it in the write-up but i'll go back and add it. I was surprised to see remnants of a RED loc-tite in removing them. I guess Suzuki believed they would last forever!

.......or maybe 30 years ago only one strength was available?

Personally, with the metal fold over bolt locks, i think the loc-tite probably isn't necessary. The only direct forces acting on the bolts are vibration, and the fold over steel tabs should keep that in check. But it's a cheap and easy "back-up" i suppose, so add it since you're already there.

The only real change i made was adding a little of the Honda moly 60 paste to the studs that go into the rubber bushings with steel centers. They were dry getting out, and whatever wear it might prevent can't hurt and adds a slight water barrier. The rubber bushings still flexed when i pressed against them,....so i didn't feel the need to order new ones.

And you're also right about the tire changers, probably. It's not rocket science to spot a dry spline, and certainly a few pennies of lube added not going to bankrupt any business. It's been said MANY times here, the ONLY way to know a job is done right is to do it yourself! Even "factory certified mechanic" doesn't guarentee the job, ....or YOUR A$$!

.....but at almost 56,.....i'm not changing motorcycle tires by hand!

BTW,....this was not a Motorcycle specific Dealer,.....just a general tire store that does sales, mounting, and inspections of both car and motorcycle tires. Had it been a Suzuki Dealer,.....i would have blown my cool for sure!

I do plan on bringing it up when i see the owner tomorrow, and as he was the only one left when i finally got back before closing. I called ahead and told him i'd be 5-10 minutes past his closing time of 6:00PM due to horrendous traffic delays in the 8 miles from where i was at the time i headed over to get it. (i had 45 minutes to go those 8 miles, it took 1 hr)

It used to be when you got new car brakes they repacked your wheel bearings automatically,.......now i ask ahead of time to make sure, and usually get a funny look from the clerk!

I believe they will charge less for putting your own own tires on and balancing. Shop time was listed at $75/hr, and expect at least an hour charge to mount and balance 2 tires..........

......and clean off and relube the !@$#%&!!! SPLINE!

BTW,.....i wish there was a way to get fresh lube up inside OUR wheel bearings. With the side forces acting on a 2 wheeler, probably can't have a "repackable" bearing. My wheel bearings still felt smooth when i turned them by finger pressure, ......

.........but it does make you wonder if the spline grease was dry, what's the wheel bearing grease look like :?:

 

[bwringer]

Yes, you do need Loc-tite on the spline bolts, no matter how tight you get them and how well you fold over the tabs. Guess how I learned this... go on, guess.

Also, with motorcycle wheel bearings, you replace the bearings -- you don't repack the grease. Wheel bearings come sealed with the correct amount of grease inside (don't add more -- they'll just run hotter, and the grease you add could be incompatible). Sealed bearings are cheap (shafties take two 6302-2RS on the front, two 6303-2RS on the rear), so I make it a point to replace the bearings every third tire change or so.

The good news is that motorcycle wheel bearings are designed for far heavier loads and much higher speeds in industrial use -- they're under very little stress on a motorcycle compared to their intended uses. The only thing that kills motorcycle wheel bearings is mechanical incompetence (leaving out spacers, using a hammer on the bearings incorrectly) and corrosion (leaving the bike leaning against a barn for 30 years so water can work its way into the bearings.)

Your original spline might make a good spare to get someone home, but it already has a significant amount of wear -- once it's worn through the surface hardening, the end is near. Good thing you caught it early!

Modern shaft drive bikes must also have their splines lubed with moly paste (NOT grease) at every tire change, so there is absolutely NO excuse for the shop to neglect this if they removed the wheel from the bike.

However, if you brought the wheel in to have the tire changed, then the spline lube is probably up to you.

 

[joejeweler]

I forgot to ask if it makes any sense in packing the central hub here with wheel bearing grease,......hoping that some of it may work it's way into the old wheel bearings over time? I can feel a slight lip on the inside the hub, where the spacer between both rear wheel bearings is located. I was thinking of getting as much wheel bearing grease in as i can around the axle. It appears it might hold maybe a 1/16" thickness of grease, perhaps?

I figure they are a bit dry (after 30 years wouldn't you be?), and "if" the bearings tend to get warmer than new bearings would normally get,....that some of that grease may liquify and enter the bearing races??? Over time the lube that gets in reduces any heat generated, and it stops liquifying......

After seeing how dry the spline grease had become, i'm sure the bearings would benefit from some freshening,....at least until an outright replacement of the bearings becomes necessary.

I'm going to try it in any case,....just wondered if anyone has?

 

[bwringer]

.....forgot to ask if it makes any sense in packing the central hub here with wheel bearing grease,......hoping that some of it may work it's way into the old wheel bearings over time?

No, that will just make a mess.

Just replace the bearings with new sealed bearings if you have any doubt or feel any roughness. You mentioned that yours feel fine, so I'd leave them alone.

They're only $5 to $7 each most places, and you can buy these for as little as $3 each online. Just pick some up before your next tire change and have them ready.

 

[joejeweler]

No, that will just make a mess.

Just replace the bearings with new sealed bearings if you have any doubt or feel any roughness. You mentioned that yours feel fine, so I'd leave them alone.

They're only $5 to $7 each most places, and you can buy these for as little as $3 each online. Just pick some up before your next tire change and have them ready.

I was afraid of that,....lol,....just thinking out loud.

I haven't heard much about the sealed bearings on these bikes becoming unusable solely due to age. (lower mileage ones especially)

But being sealed maybe keeps them from drying out like it does on the spline grease.

 

[Steve]

...and there she is, waiting to be lubed with "Honda Moly 60",...AFTER i get the $#@%&*! NEW tire replaced next week!

Personally, I would have lubed the splines while they were out of the hub and easily reached.

.

 

[joejeweler]

Personally, I would have lubed the splines while they were out of the hub and easily reached.

.

I will,....once the new tire is installed tomorrow or tuesday. (remember, i discovered a slice in the sidewall)

No sense getting new spline lube all dirtied up till then......

 

[joejeweler]

Yes, you do need Loc-tite on the spline bolts, no matter how tight you get them and how well you fold over the tabs. Guess how I learned this... go on, guess.

Also, with motorcycle wheel bearings, you replace the bearings -- you don't repack the grease. Wheel bearings come sealed with the correct amount of grease inside (don't add more -- they'll just run hotter, and the grease you add could be incompatible). Sealed bearings are cheap (shafties take two 6302-2RS on the front, two 6303-2RS on the rear), so I make it a point to replace the bearings every third tire change or so.

The good news is that motorcycle wheel bearings are designed for far heavier loads and much higher speeds in industrial use -- they're under very little stress on a motorcycle compared to their intended uses. The only thing that kills motorcycle wheel bearings is mechanical incompetence (leaving out spacers, using a hammer on the bearings incorrectly) and corrosion (leaving the bike leaning against a barn for 30 years so water can work its way into the bearings.)

Your original spline might make a good spare to get someone home, but it already has a significant amount of wear -- once it's worn through the surface hardening, the end is near. Good thing you caught it early!

Modern shaft drive bikes must also have their splines lubed with moly paste (NOT grease) at every tire change, so there is absolutely NO excuse for the shop to neglect this if they removed the wheel from the bike.

However, if you brought the wheel in to have the tire changed, then the spline lube is probably up to you.

Hehe,....i think i have a pretty good idea!

Curious though, what kind of damage did the loose bolt(s) cause, ....and did one or more bolts come completely out or just loosen up to the point the wheel spline shifted? ( breaking off teeth perhaps? )

.....just tell me,.....i'll keep it on the downlow. :-$


Thanks for the bearing info also,.....might pick up a complete set for when i notice a problem and need to change them.

 

[bwringer]

Hehe,....i think i have a pretty good idea!

Curious though, what kind of damage did the loose bolt(s) cause, ....and did one or more bolts come completely out or just loosen up to the point the wheel spline shifted? ( breaking off teeth perhaps? )

.....just tell me,.....i'll keep it on the downlow. :-$


Thanks for the bearing info also,.....might pick up a complete set for when i notice a problem and need to change them.

The symptom was a clicking noise as the wheel rotated following a midnight on-the-road spline replacement the night before. There's a much longer story there, but the bolts were definitely VERY tight and the locking tabs were definitely in place when we put it all back together. We just didn't have any Loctite on hand.

We discovered upon disassembly that a few of the bolts had simply backed out over a couple hundred miles of twisties.

The clicking was from the bolts contacting the ribs on the final drive. All had loosened, but only a few were contacting the final drive. Fortunately, damage was light and we still had some extra bolts left over.

It could have been very unpleasant if the bolts had backed out much further or if one had managed to get loose.