Shaft or Chain... that's the question...

[TCBeard]

I recently sold the GS1100g shaft drive. In trying to sell it I had a couple of guys say that they weren't sure they wanted a shaft drive. Maybe I need to be educated... what would be the advantages of a chain over a shaft?
Thanks.

TC

 

[850 Combat]

Shaft disadvantages are more weight and more power loss, and more parts to potentially go bad, jacking and squat with throttle affects handling.
Chain disadvantages are replacent of chain and sprockets fairly often, need to adjust chain, need to lube chain.

On a barge like a GS, I think a shaft is best. On an '82 or newer, the splines may wear out, but that part costs less than a chain and sprockets, and is easier to change, plus you will have to change rear trses often enough thats its no big hassle. Problems other than the splined hub are pretty rare.

Just one person's opinion. I do own numerous chain drive bikes, and shaftys as well. Touring, especially is more convenient without a chain.

 

[Bufallobiff]

From what I've heard as far as power transmission efficiency, it's belts then chains and last in line would be shafts. I've had problems with chains and shafts--never had a belt but I'm sure someones' had a problem with them too.

 

[cyclefvr2]

shaft disadvantage- no gear chang, for speed ect..., but there really smooth!!
belt i wouldnt have one, ibve seen them with teeth gone, they stretch lik chains as well, dry rot ect...
chains- get a high dollar solid pin chain, and it will last

 

[bwringer]

Crikey, did everyone forget how to argue around here? :twistedevil:



Everyone knows that real men have shafts.

I detest chains. Yes, I know they're lighter, a bit more efficient and you can change gearing. Whoop-ti-do. I don't care -- if I cared about being light and efficient, I'd eat nothing but lettuce and ice cubes for six months.

Chains are messy, dangerously exposed, require regular care and adjustment (daily fussing if you ride in crappy weather or terrain), and wear out every 20,000 miles or so, usually right before you're leaving on long trip.

The spline problems with 82-83 models have been well documented and are easily avoided. Years ago, I paid $30 for a spline from a '79 GS850, and since then a bottle of gear oil every other year (one quart is good for two gear oil changes if I'm careful) has been my only maintenance expense.

Chains. Pah.

Cheap, inferior engineering.

(Now THAT'S how you start an argument...)

 

[terrylee2u]

You'll get no argument from me.. I prefer the shaft myself.. less hassle and mess.
I once was told that a chain drive will torque downwards and a shaft to the side.. hence racers prefer the chain and sprocket. Not real sure how much truth there is to that..

 

[nisom512]

I recently sold the GS1100g shaft drive. In trying to sell it I had a couple of guys say that they weren't sure they wanted a shaft drive. Maybe I need to be educated... what would be the advantages of a chain over a shaft?
Thanks.

TC

I cant belive they even hesitated with the shafty. that makes no sense. when I have sold my bikes the question usually is when was the chain replaced last? and with a shafty theres almost no question.

 

[ORourke]

Shafts have to be better!!!! I have to change the chain and sprockets on my GSX400E, and to do such a simple thing I have to take off the footrest, exhaust pipes, crash bars(mounted on the engine mounting bolts) and the gear linkage before I can even get to the front sprocket...

 

[Steve]

No question about it.

Chains should be used to drive the cam chains, shafts should be used to drive the wheels.

About half a million miles with shaft-drive bikes and only two failures. I had a u-joint fail on a Kawasaki Voyager 1300 and #1 son managed to twist a driveshaft in half on his 650.

Yes, chain drive is mechanically more efficient, but not nearly as practical for those of us that ride a LOT. How much is a lot? I have only done about 6,000 miles in the last 6 weeks, so I am approaching that mark. Belts are quieter, for as long as they last, but they, too, need to be replaced every so often.

Yes, early shaft-drive bikes tended to jack up and down when the throttle was changed (never heard about the sideways part), but Suzuki managed to do something to really minimize that effect. Still takes some adjustment if you are accustomed to riding really hard on a chain-drive bike, but for the average rider, the only thing you will notice is the lack of chain noise and the ease of maintenance.

Oh, the reason that racers prefer chains? That's easy. Very easy to change ratios, less unsprung weight and it maximizes power transmission. They are not terribly worried about having to do 'daily maintenance' as the race is only a couple of hours long, and the chain and sprockets are going to be new for every race, anyway.

.

 

[koolaid_kid]

O.K., counterpoint.
All you old fogies with your Buicks and Toyotas, keep your inefficient, heavy, slow under-handling shafts. Change the splines when you change the oil. Woohoo.
REAL MEN use chains. And whips, if they have a significant other (oops, wrong thread).
If shafts were so good, all race bikes would have them. What do race bikes have? Chains.
As I was pointing out to bwringer this weekend, the key is proper maintenance. If you ignore your significant other, treat her/him like a piece of lawn equipment, how long will happiness reside? Not long, I suggest. The chain on my 1100E was on it when I purchased it, so its history is unknown. But I have put almost 10k miles on it since I purchased it, and adjusted it only once. And it has plenty of life left, as do the sprockets (well, I can only see the rear, but since the front is of harder material I assume the front is in good condition as well.
Here's they key:
Understand it is an item that requires periodic maintenance.
Start with quality sprockets and a quality chain.
Clean the chain prior to lubing it. Don't use a penetrant such as WD40. They can get under the o-rings and wash away the internal lubricant. Clean the teeth on the sprocket at the same time, since the chain can pick that junk up too.
Use a quality lube, not some junk you get at Walmart.
Wipe it down afterward. I usually wait an hour or so to make sure it sets. This is the most crucial step, IMHO. Excess lubricant will pick up road dust and dirt, which will work its way into the orings and cause premature failure. Also, it prevents the tell-tale strip of lubricant up the back of your riding pants, a sure sign of a chain lube rookie.

So, to the point - Advantages of chain to shaft is ease of changing ratios, lighter weight, which should mean better fuel economy, better handling, the list goes on.
So buy a chain, or get the shaft.

 

[bwringer]

Thanks, George!

I was beginning to fear the art of debate was dead... :twistedevil:

 

[Griffin]

I like them both. They each have their purposes.

Having been a chain kind of guy exclusively for a quarter of a century, and being relatively new to the shaft side, I can tell you one thing I'm not looking forward to on my shafty -

Removing the rear wheel to change the tire. Reading the procedure for how to do it in the manual looks like it'll be a pita.

 

[hillsy]

I like them both. They each have their purposes.

Having been a chain kind of guy exclusively for a quarter of a century, and being relatively new to the shaft side, I can tell you one thing I'm not looking forward to on my shafty -

Removing the rear wheel to change the tire. Reading the procedure for how to do it in the manual looks like it'll be a pita.

It's not any harder changing a shaft rear wheel than a chain IMO - and your hands dont get anywhere near as dirty

 

[willie]

I've had just under 50 bikes since I began riding. I liked the belt drive on my HD and was of the understanding that it'd outlast a chain by far. Aside from some canyon carving or a few stoplight drags, I don't race. With that in mind, the weight and efficiency advantages don't outweigh (pun intended) the low maintenance, cleanliness and smooth operation benefits of the shaft. There's been a few times I'd have liked to reduce the cruising RPM of my shaft driven bikes but not enough to have gone through the hassle and expense of changing sprockets if they had been chain driven. Maybe I am old and lazy for preferring shaft drive then again maybe its a case of being older and wiser. lol Just my .02 worth. Speaking of worth....I think the best is to have at least one of each. I've found that to work very well for me.
Willie in TN

 

[twr1776]

Yesterday 11:23 PM bwringer Everyone knows that real mean have shafts.

You are correct sir.

Today 07:06 AM koolaid_kid the tell-tale strip of lubricant up the back of your riding pants, a sure sign of a chain lube rookie.

So, so, so many comments come to mind, I will take the "high road" and pass on this one although what does a "veteran" look like.

Today 07:06 AM koolaid_kid O.K., counterpoint. All you old fogies with your Buicks and Toyotas, keep your inefficient, heavy, slow under-handling shafts. Change the splines when you change the oil. Woohoo. REAL MEN use chains. And whips, if they have a significant other (oops, wrong thread). If shafts were so good, all race bikes would have them. What do race bikes have? Chains. As I was pointing out to bwringer this weekend, the key is proper maintenance. If you ignore your significant other, treat her/him like a piece of lawn equipment, how long will happiness reside? Not long, I suggest. The chain on my 1100E was on it when I purchased it, so its history is unknown. But I have put almost 10k miles on it since I purchased it, and adjusted it only once. And it has plenty of life left, as do the sprockets (well, I can only see the rear, but since the front is of harder material I assume the front is in good condition as well. Here's they key: Understand it is an item that requires periodic maintenance. Start with quality sprockets and a quality chain. Clean the chain prior to lubing it. Don't use a penetrant such as WD40. They can get under the o-rings and wash away the internal lubricant. Clean the teeth on the sprocket at the same time, since the chain can pick that junk up too. Use a quality lube, not some junk you get at Walmart. Wipe it down afterward. I usually wait an hour or so to make sure it sets. This is the most crucial step, IMHO. Excess lubricant will pick up road dust and dirt, which will work its way into the orings and cause premature failure. Also, it prevents the tell-tale strip of lubricant up the back of your riding pants, a sure sign of a chain lube rookie. So, to the point - Advantages of chain to shaft is ease of changing ratios, lighter weight, which should mean better fuel economy, better handling, the list goes on. So buy a chain, or get the shaft.

George, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, when are you coming back from "the dark side" :lol: and going to quit "wasting" your time on dinosaur technology and that silly car thing.

Brett, removing the rear wheel on a shafty is not bad at all, plus you do not have to re-align you rear wheel every time after installing the tire with those silly bicycle type chain adjusters.

 

[Griffin]

Brett, removing the rear wheel on a shafty is not bad at all, plus you do not have to re-align you rear wheel every time after installing the tire with those silly bicycle type chain adjusters.

On my chain drive bikes, you remove one nut, and the rear wheel is off. Not so with a shafty.

 

[koolaid_kid]

...when are you coming back from "the dark side" :lol: and going to quit "wasting" your time on dinosaur technology and that silly car thing.

NEVER, I SAY, NEVER!
The whole debate is debateable, of course. I see no real advantages to the shaft drive other than the cleanliness. I see multiple disadvantages, including weight, handling, and fuel economy. Which are the primary reasons I ride a bike vs. driving my air conditioned car.
I have only owned 18 bikes (the GS being the 17th and the GPz the 18th) and I have always had chains. So I am far from an expert on the shaft drives, other than watching the old Beemers jack themselves up in the curves. But I look on suzukicycles.org and indications are that the shaft drive adds 50-60 lb. to our already obese bikes. Or put another way, if we put an 850G on a scale, it would probably weigh as much or more as my beast, while being 25%-35% down on power. No thanks, grandma.

 

[Griffin]

NEVER, I SAY, NEVER!
The whole debate is debateable, of course. I see no real advantages to the shaft drive other than the cleanliness. I see multiple disadvantages, including weight, handling, and fuel economy. Which are the primary reasons I ride a bike vs. driving my air conditioned car.
I have only owned 18 bikes (the GS being the 17th and the GPz the 18th) and I have always had chains. So I am far from an expert on the shaft drives, other than watching the old Beemers jack themselves up in the curves. But I look on suzukicycles.org and indications are that the shaft drive adds 50-60 lb. to our already obese bikes. Or put another way, if we put an 850G on a scale, it would probably weigh as much or more as my beast, while being 25%-35% down on power. No thanks, grandma.

Actually, an 850G (or 1000G) weighs about 50 lbs more than an 1100E.

 

[TheCafeKid]

The 850G was the HEAVIEST GS ever produced (not including the GK with all that added baggness) Even heavier than its 1000 and 1100cc counterparts...why? I dunno... But, I have them both. I have worked on them both. Changing the tire on a shaftie is EASIER, but only if you know what you're getting into, and how to go about it the most effecient way. Which do i prefer? Well, so far, Ive blown thru 2 wheel splines in less than 10K miles on a GS shaftie. Granted they were both the old POS ones, but i dont think that qualifies as any less mainainence to me... Ive gone thru one chain and sprockets on my 1100ES, and I whip the living chit out of that thing.

Yes, its cleaner to change the tire on the shaftie, but only pansy's worry about "staying clean" when theyre working on a fantastic piece of machinery such as a GS. Why, my girl even works on em, and she doesnt worry bout getting filthy. And she's a girl!

Now dont get me wrong, I like each for their specific design. If im going on a long trip, and I wanna Lawrence Welk it down the highways, two lanes and whatnot, in comfort and style, I will take the shaft drive.

But, if ive got my devil horns on, slobbering and drooling hair on fire waving the conquering sword and screaming like a scalded banshee, diving out of the sun guns a blazing squid hunting...I will take the chain drive thanks:evil::twistedevil:

 

[Dave8338]

Had them both. If you're looking for light weight get a chain. Looking for smooth quiet power buy a shafty.

Ever had a shaft let loose and wrap up into a rear wheel skid at 60mph+ ?

No, me neither. :-k