Shaft or Chain... that's the question...

[Dan Ruddock]

For me I hate the jacking effect on a shafty. Unless it's to turn one over for profit I will never buy a shafty for personal use. The maintenance is a non issue for me. If you use a X-ring chain 30k life is possible and for how much I ride that's is a long time. I am the mechanically inclined type. Dan

 

[doctorgonzo]

It's a different feel for sure (shafty). Especially the loss of that feeling of the rear end dropping and grabbing hold when you roll the throttle. You get used to it though.

 

[prosolar]

I have had a few shafties and love them, sure they weigh more but over the long run I like ease of maintenance, or lack thereof compared to chains. Maybe it's the old man in me. I am mechanically inclined for sure and most of my bikes have chains, it seems every bike I get needs new chain and sprockets!

 

[flyingace]

It's been quite a while since I owned a chain-driven bike, but I recall the biggest PIA was constant adjustment as the chain wore. Then, more likely than not, this would screw up the wheel alignment and you'd go down the road with rear tire sideways (if only slightly). This in turn would wear out the rear tire prematurely. I don't miss that at all.

As others have said though, it's a matter of your bike's purpose in life that determines which final drive works best.

 

[bwringer]

I like them both. They each have their purposes.

Having been a chain kind of guy exclusively for a quarter of a century, and being relatively new to the shaft side, I can tell you one thing I'm not looking forward to on my shafty -

Removing the rear wheel to change the tire. Reading the procedure for how to do it in the manual looks like it'll be a pita.

It's MUCH easier than on a chain bike. Nothing to align or adjust when you reinstall. To pull the rear wheel, yank the axle (which usually requires undoing the top shock bolts, same as chain drive bikes with stock exhausts), undo brake torque arm bolt, and you're done.

And only two wheel bearings to deal with.

When you remove the rear wheel of a G model, it's a lot easier if you put the centerstand on a board or take some measure to create slightly increased clearance at the rear -- it's a lot easier to yank the rear wheel out that way.

When we change those tires, you'll see -- easy peasy.

 

[jpaul]

Have you ever actually put 5.8 gallons into your 1100's tank?

I have put 5.8 gallons in the tank of my 82 1100E once. I distinctly remember it because it was half a mile up a slight incline to get to the f####ng pump from where it ran out, and a dozen or so H-D's passed me laughing and waving while I was pushing. Because of the way the tank and the filler opening is designed, you really have to work to get the last half gallon in there, rocking the bike side to side gently to get the air pockets out. I used to do that when traveling to make sure I was filling the tank to a consistent level for tracking my gas mileage.

 

[Griffin]

I have put 5.8 gallons in the tank of my 82 1100E once. I distinctly remember it because it was half a mile up a slight incline to get to the f####ng pump from where it ran out, and a dozen or so H-D's passed me laughing and waving while I was pushing. Because of the way the tank and the filler opening is designed, you really have to work to get the last half gallon in there, rocking the bike side to side gently to get the air pockets out. I used to do that when traveling to make sure I was filling the tank to a consistent level for tracking my gas mileage.

I guess I'll buy that, rocking from side to side to get the last half gallon in.

It didn't start oozing out the filler cap vent when you set it upright and rode off? If I fill my 1000G up too far, it will do that, and make a big mess on the tank (and in my crotch area if I don't see it coming and move back on the seat).

And yeah, when my brother ran out of gas on his 1100EZ, that tank was bone-azz dry.

 

[Griffin]

It's MUCH easier than on a chain bike. Nothing to align or adjust when you reinstall. To pull the rear wheel, yank the axle (which usually requires undoing the top shock bolts, same as chain drive bikes with stock exhausts), undo brake torque arm bolt, and you're done.

And only two wheel bearings to deal with.

When you remove the rear wheel of a G model, it's a lot easier if you put the centerstand on a board or take some measure to create slightly increased clearance at the rear -- it's a lot easier to yank the rear wheel out that way.

When we change those tires, you'll see -- easy peasy.

I'll bite that it may be easy, but it cna't be easier than on one of the chain GSes. It literally takes three minutes to remove the rear wheel, and about five to reinstall it.

Reading the "official" procedure in the Suzuki GS1000G owner's manual, there's no way the rear wheel can be removed in three minutes, unless maybe you are a former NASCAR pit crew boss.

 

[doctorgonzo]

Rear wheel removal on a shafty is just like a chain bike minus removing the chain from the rear sprocket. I can have my back off in 5 minutes, and 4 minutes of that is removing the rear caliper from the disc and taking the bottom of the shocks loose (which I assume you have to on a chain drive as well).

 

[jpaul]

I never had gas ooze out the filler cap when really topping it off, but I only do that when I'm getting right back on the road to put some miles on. If you let it sit for even 10-15 minutes, the temperature rise inside the tank can cause the air inside to expand, and if the air pocket isn't right by the cap, it can force the gas out.

 

[salty_monk]

I have both... out here in CA neither are a lot more hassle either way.

Can't say I really notice the "jacking" either in comparison. I must have almost as close a comparison as you can get with a 801000G & a 781000E.

One thing I will say - the 1000E is outright faster, probably due to the fact that it weighs about 40lbs less has less mileage (so compression is likely to be slightly higher) & also the transmission losses. You wouldn't really notice except in a drag race though.... for every day use it's not an issue.

Dan

 

[TheCafeKid]

I have both... out here in CA neither are a lot more hassle either way.

Can't say I really notice the "jacking" either in comparison. I must have almost as close a comparison as you can get with a 801000G & a 781000E.

One thing I will say - the 1000E is outright faster, probably due to the fact that it weighs about 40lbs less has less mileage (so compression is likely to be slightly higher) & also the transmission losses. You wouldn't really notice except in a drag race though.... for every day use it's not an issue.

Dan

You can MAKE the E faster too, with a simple cog swap. Cant do that on the shaftie...

 

[makr]

The rear wheel on My BMW with shaft drive is just four lug nuts, and just comes off.

Touring Shaft. Sporting chain.

 

[Bufallobiff]

O.K., counterpoint.
All you old fogies with your Buicks and Toyotas, keep your inefficient, heavy, slow under-handling shafts. Change the splines when you change the oil. Woohoo.
REAL MEN use chains. And whips, if they have a significant other (oops, wrong thread).
If shafts were so good, all race bikes would have them. What do race bikes have? Chains.
As I was pointing out to bwringer this weekend, the key is proper maintenance. If you ignore your significant other, treat her/him like a piece of lawn equipment, how long will happiness reside? Not long, I suggest. The chain on my 1100E was on it when I purchased it, so its history is unknown. But I have put almost 10k miles on it since I purchased it, and adjusted it only once. And it has plenty of life left, as do the sprockets (well, I can only see the rear, but since the front is of harder material I assume the front is in good condition as well.
Here's they key:
Understand it is an item that requires periodic maintenance.
Start with quality sprockets and a quality chain.
Clean the chain prior to lubing it. Don't use a penetrant such as WD40. They can get under the o-rings and wash away the internal lubricant. Clean the teeth on the sprocket at the same time, since the chain can pick that junk up too.
Use a quality lube, not some junk you get at Walmart.
Wipe it down afterward. I usually wait an hour or so to make sure it sets. This is the most crucial step, IMHO. Excess lubricant will pick up road dust and dirt, which will work its way into the orings and cause premature failure. Also, it prevents the tell-tale strip of lubricant up the back of your riding pants, a sure sign of a chain lube rookie.

So, to the point - Advantages of chain to shaft is ease of changing ratios, lighter weight, which should mean better fuel economy, better handling, the list goes on.
So buy a chain, or get the shaft.

Having owned both chain and shaft drive bikes, I can go either way. A stripped spline on a R/75 BMW will mean ring and pinion replacement---been there and done that. Apparently these GSs are a little more forgiving. With the new O and X ring chains, maintenance is much easier than it used to be. 20,000 miles on a chain and 2 chains before sprocket changes is easily attainable.

"Use a quality lube, not some junk you get at Walmart."--Walmart sells Bell M/C spray lithium grease which is what these chains are factory lubed with to begin with---how can that be wrong? If you've ever replaced one you'd see that it is coated with the stuff. I've also read the care instructions from a major Japanese mfgr. and they said to use a water displacement spay (read WD40) exclusively for cleaning and lubing. I haven't tried that yet as I still clean with kerosene and lube with lithium. Many of the other chain lubes and "waxes" are tacky and would seem to me to cause crud to stick to them. I suppose everyone has their own method. Chains vs. shaft? It's all good.

 

[bwringer]

For me I hate the jacking effect on a shafty.

What jacking effect? We're talking about Suzuki GS shafties here, not Yamahas, Kawasakis, or Hondas.

Suzuki's shaft drive setup is very, very neutral, and the other Japanese bike makers didn't start to get it right until much later.

BMW had the right idea with the Paralever, and I believe Moto Guzzi has a similar torque link arrangement.

However, the Suzuki GS setup is much simpler -- only one u-joint placed perfectly in line with the swingarm pivot. Simple, durable, no sliding splines anywhere, and little to no jacking effect.

 

[koolaid_kid]

I love this. We haven't had one of these for a while. 6 pages and still going.

 

[marvinsc]

What jacking effect? We're talking about Suzuki GS shafties here, not Yamahas, Kawasakis, or Hondas.

Suzuki's shaft drive setup is very, very neutral, and the other Japanese bike makers didn't start to get it right until much later.

BMW had the right idea with the Paralever, and I believe Moto Guzzi has a similar torque link arrangement.

However, the Suzuki GS setup is much simpler -- only one u-joint placed perfectly in line with the swingarm pivot. Simple, durable, no sliding splines anywhere, and little to no jacking effect.

For a good example, ride an old Yamaha XS1100 then ride a GS850G. One jacks like a pogo stick and the other doesn't.

 

[Steve]

I love this. We haven't had one of these for a while. 6 pages and still going.

Change your view settings to show 40 posts per page. This is barely into the SECOND page.

.

 

[koolaid_kid]

"Use a quality lube, not some junk you get at Walmart."--Walmart sells Bell M/C spray lithium grease which is what these chains are factory lubed with to begin with---how can that be wrong? If you've ever replaced one you'd see that it is coated with the stuff. I've also read the care instructions from a major Japanese mfgr. and they said to use a water displacement spay (read WD40) exclusively for cleaning and lubing. I haven't tried that yet as I still clean with kerosene and lube with lithium. Many of the other chain lubes and "waxes" are tacky and would seem to me to cause crud to stick to them. I suppose everyone has their own method. Chains vs. shaft? It's all good.

Valid points. This is my opinion on each:
First, if you continue to read the WD-40 label, it is a penetrant. Which means it will try to get past the o-rings and wash away the lubricant there, which the chain lube won't be able to replace. And to consider WD-40 as a chain lube, well, I guess I'll just say I give that just as much weight as using it to clean my chain.
Second, just b/c the factory uses lithium grease does not mean it is the best. They have two goals in mind at the factory: 1) Get it to the consumer still looking new, not rusted. 2) Cut costs as much as possible.
I worked for a company for years where I had to sit and listen to endless arguments on how to save two cents per unit. True story. Since I have a unit of one chain, I will use the best, not the most cost-effective.
AFA which one to use, it takes a while to figure that one out.

 

[Dan Ruddock]

What jacking effect? We're talking about Suzuki GS shafties here, not Yamahas, Kawasakis, or Hondas.

Suzuki's shaft drive setup is very, very neutral, and the other Japanese bike makers didn't start to get it right until much later.

BMW had the right idea with the Paralever, and I believe Moto Guzzi has a similar torque link arrangement.

However, the Suzuki GS setup is much simpler -- only one u-joint placed perfectly in line with the swingarm pivot. Simple, durable, no sliding splines anywhere, and little to no jacking effect.

You got me on this one. To be honest I have ridden all the bikes you mention except a GS shafty. I would like to make the comparison but my gut tells me if it does not feel just like my chain bike I still would not want one. I love the feel of my bike squatting under hard acceleration. Dan