Sonic Springs and Race Tech Emulators intall

[dorkburger]

Aaaah, I didn't know that. As I said, its just a mental exercise, part of my learning. Just came in from the garage. I think I found a way to gut the PDF and keep the seals in place.... I'm getting too tired to think clearly though..... and its cold.

 

[glib]

I would definitely back off on the emulator adjuster, to 2 turns. That will help some. What weight oil is in there?

On the front, you do get most of the sag from the bike's weight. Typically the bike sag is in the low 20's, total sag should be mid-30s

So I got out for my first ride of the year today. I decided to see what the setup felt like before opening it up again. While the front felt well planted, it didn't move much. Must be a track setup. I'm going to take out those two turns and hopefully get out again tomorrow.

Almost forgot to mention that the front is now tight enough that I could feel the cupping of my front Sport Demon as I went around one smooth right sweeper.

 

[glib]

I reduced emulator spring pre-load to two turns and went out again yesterday and overall it felt great but did still seem somewhat harsh on harder bumps, like that seam of asphalt on either side of a bridge. Wondering if I should try 10 wt fork oil or go down to the 40# emulator springs or take out another half turn of pre-load in the current springs--or just leave it alone since it does handle nice. Sadly my brand new fork seals are leaking--which is doubly annoying since the old ones weren't but I decided doing the mods would provide a good opportunity for fresh seals.

Also I got some good video of my ride by putting my camera on top of the right turn signal stem but the sound was terrible because I had an exhaust leak from #3 where the bolts had backed out.

 

[Guest]

I reduced emulator spring pre-load to two turns and went out again yesterday and overall it felt great but did still seem somewhat harsh on harder bumps, like that seam of asphalt on either side of a bridge. Wondering if I should try 10 wt fork oil or go down to the 40# emulator springs or take out another half turn of pre-load in the current springs--or just leave it alone since it does handle nice.

Is the spring the stock one or stiffer? You have a couple functions to work with on the emulators. The oil weight determines how firm the low speed compression is (low damper speed, not road speed). This gives road feel. The emulator spring rate and preload determine how much force is required to pop the emulator off and how much it pops off over big hits like expansion joints. A soft spring with lots of preload will take a big bump to blow off but then will open a lot almost immediately. A stiffer spring with lots of preload will need a big hit to blow off and it won't open up very much, keeping the high speed compression quite firm. A stiff spring with little preload will blow off easily but not open very fast after that.

It sounds like you want it to blow off easier over the bigger bumps, so I would suggest going with the original spring as installed by RT (whatever colour that is, I don't recall) and setting it as per their instructions (2.5 turns of preload, I think), along with 10W oil as a starting point. I am running that setup along with Sonic 1.0kg/mm springs on my 1100E and the low speed compression is just a touch soft for my taste. I plan to try 12.5W oil next summer to see if that is the answer for me.


Mark

 

[glib]

Is the spring the stock one or stiffer? You have a couple functions to work with on the emulators. The oil weight determines how firm the low speed compression is (low damper speed, not road speed). This gives road feel. The emulator spring rate and preload determine how much force is required to pop the emulator off and how much it pops off over big hits like expansion joints. A soft spring with lots of preload will take a big bump to blow off but then will open a lot almost immediately. A stiffer spring with lots of preload will need a big hit to blow off and it won't open up very much, keeping the high speed compression quite firm. A stiff spring with little preload will blow off easily but not open very fast after that.

It sounds like you want it to blow off easier over the bigger bumps, so I would suggest going with the original spring as installed by RT (whatever colour that is, I don't recall) and setting it as per their instructions (2.5 turns of preload, I think), along with 10W oil as a starting point. I am running that setup along with Sonic 1.0kg/mm springs on my 1100E and the low speed compression is just a touch soft for my taste. I plan to try 12.5W oil next summer to see if that is the answer for me.


Mark

I've heard others received theirs with blue 40# springs but mine are yellow 64# probably because I said I wanted a tighter ride. Since I have to take them off again to put in a 2nd new set of seals, I think I'll take another half turn out of the current springs because I did really like the handling even if it could be more accommodating on the bigger bumps. I also need to replace my front tire. It's a Sport Demon with at least 6,000 miles (been cupping for a while) and I'm sure a new one will make a difference as well. Thanks for the breakdown on the characteristics of different settings. That makes good sense.

 

[glib]

So I rode for four hours today on smooth and some horrible pothole patched roads to test my new settings and I think I have it dialed in perfect for me now. The 1.0 Sonic springs matched with 1.5 turns on the 64# (yellow) emulator springs seems to allow the front to blip right over small bumps, railroad tracks and such but remain a tight ride overall. Still not fun on the patchwork back-roads but much better than it was stock. That's not where I want to ride anyway. This setup instills a great deal of confidence and I have to watch myself because higher speed is more comfortable and relaxed now.

This has to be the best mod for the money.

 

[dorkburger]

Glad to hear. Just got in from working on mine. I noticed my Sonic spring is much shorter. I'm guessing the PVC spacer serves double duty to make up for the difference and set preload / sag?

 

[glib]

Glad to hear. Just got in from working on mine. I noticed my Sonic spring is much shorter. I'm guessing the PVC spacer serves double duty to make up for the difference and set preload / sag?

Yes. I read that the shorter length has to do with the quality of metal available now.

 

[limeex2]

When replacing fork seals, it is highly advisable to replace the bushings also. The bushing can get worn causing the leakage due to a sloppy fit. With all the nice work your doing on your front end, have you serviced your steering head bearings? With the forks out, its pretty easy to service and will help the overall feel to the front end.

 

[RichDesmond]

Glad to hear. Just got in from working on mine. I noticed my Sonic spring is much shorter. I'm guessing the PVC spacer serves double duty to make up for the difference and set preload / sag?

Yes. Although be careful with the "make up the difference" part. You don't want the new spring/spacer total length to be the same as stock.
That's one of the reasons the new springs are shorter, to force people to cut a new spacer. If the were the same as stock most people would just thrown them in there without following the "Note A" section of the instructions.
Typically, the stock setups on older bikes had a lot of static preload, due to the very soft springs they all had. If you use that much preload with the new springs you'll end up with not enough sag and a harsh ride.

 

[glib]

When replacing fork seals, it is highly advisable to replace the bushings also. The bushing can get worn causing the leakage due to a sloppy fit. With all the nice work your doing on your front end, have you serviced your steering head bearings? With the forks out, its pretty easy to service and will help the overall feel to the front end.

I did not replace the bushings and although I'm pretty happy so far, I do wish I had because it would have been cheap and easy and now I can't know if I have the best result until I go back in and do it. Same story on the steering head.

 

[GRAND ROUGE]

Glib.... PM sent

 

[dorkburger]

Rich and Glib, thanks. I'll start with the spacer that came with the forks from the PO and go from there.
Hopefully I can find a sweet spot that enables use of the use of the preload setting cap in the fork.

 

[RichDesmond]

Glen, see the Note A section here:

http://sonicsprings.com/catalog/damper_rod_forks_tech_article.php

That will help you get to 15mm of static preload with the caps in the middle of their range.

 

[dorkburger]

Thanks Rich. Hoping to get to this this week. Everything is cleaned, rods drilled, PDF units modded to provide free flow and eliminate the need ($) for block off plates and ready to go back together.

Race Tech says to either leave the anti dives in place or use plates with a crossover, but I figured gutting them to provide consistent flow couldn't hurt.
I appreciate your info and input for completing this job.

In other not related, but mentioned here items.... Federici's had a fire. Not a total loss, but they will be closed for a while. Good thing I got 1kg springs and not 1.1.....

 

[RichDesmond]

Thanks Rich. Hoping to get to this this week. Everything is cleaned, rods drilled, PDF units modded to provide free flow and eliminate the need ($) for block off plates and ready to go back together.

Race Tech says to either leave the anti dives in place or use plates with a crossover, but I figured gutting them to provide consistent flow couldn't hurt.
I appreciate your info and input for completing this job.

In other not related, but mentioned here items.... Federici's had a fire. Not a total loss, but they will be closed for a while. Good thing I got 1kg springs and not 1.1.....

Oh geez, that's terrible news. Hopefully they can get reopened pretty quickly.
In the meantime, Mom and Dad are going to have to find another Friday dinner spot.

 

[dorkburger]

Just noticed this last night .... .95 springs.
View attachment 53932

 

[glib]

Just noticed this last night .... .95 springs.
View attachment 53932

So bring on the ravioli but hold the French bread?

 

[TxGSrider]

Just noticed this last night .... .95 springs.
View attachment 53932

Sorry Glen,
I bought and installed the springs a couple years ago, and now that I think about it, I believe I had ordered 1.0 springs but Sonic was temporarily out of them and suggested the .95. I hope hat didn't mess up your build plans or anything.

 

[dorkburger]

No worries. Even if they are a bit light, im sure it will still be worlds better then stock.

And Glib, the restaurant mentioned, while really good overall, is especially noted for its absolutely wonderful thin crust pizza. Yum.....