Super Series R/R Market Survey

[posplayr]

More than likely I will not be pursuing this design because as previously mentioned there are at least three manufacturer making them.

I called Cycle Electric

Cycle Electric

http://www.cycleelectricinc.com/

and checked with the engineer. The 80 V/5000 RPM = 16V/KRPM output of the Suzuki is very comparable to their series regulator design. The only problem is that the R/R is rated for 50 amps and it is large.

600 series are all the same size but with different mounting and connector options

Size is 4.75"x 3.4" x 1.5" (LxWxH). In the pics you
For comparison the Electrosport is about
3.5"x3.0"x1.25"

These units are available and are under $200 from dealers but not directly from Cycle Electric
This is the same unit. The mounting plate attaches to the R/R and may or may not be included in that price.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=320504704689&viewitem=&sspagename=STRK%3AMEWAX%3AIT


I have a line on a Compu-Fire unit which is also 3 phase Series and rated at 40 amps so it looks a little smaller and I found an E-bay dealer that is offering a better deal than you can find online anywhere (that I have seen). These guys are based in CA. Still waiting to hear back on the size

CompuFire Regulator for 40 Amp 3-Phase Charging Systems

Dennis Kirk Part #: 209632
Manufacturer Part #: 55402

Also checking on at third one but not sure they will sell the R/R separately.

 

[posplayr]

OK Boys and Girls the

CompuFire Regulator for 40 Amp 3-Phase Charging Systems
Dennis Kirk Part #: 209632
Manufacturer Part #: 55402

• CompuFire Regulator for 40 Amp 3-Phase Charging Systems

Your Price: $194.99

Low Price Guarantee (details)

is 3.75"x2.5"x1.25"



I'm getting one for $180 shipped from an outfit in IA, but they will drop ship to SB. If anybody is interested in a group buy he said he would drop $15 off the price for 10 people but with shipping I'm not sure it is worth the effort. I'm not going to organize a group buy, so if anyone else is interested I'll forward the contact info, maybe you can get him to come down a little more on price.



There have been a lot of development in high efficency AC to DC power conversion for all kinds of electronics devices. The key approach to reducing power is to get rid of the direct Full wave diode bridge (Like teh OE and Electrosport have). Typical drops are about 2 volts times what ever current is being supplied (say 15 amps so 2x15=30 watts). Shunt type regulator which shorts the phases makes that even worse.



The newer designs implement the diode bridge with Power MOSFET's which reduce the forward diode drops down to maybe 0.2V @15amps (0.2x15=3 watts) , so the power savings are significant. Unfortunately the FHA0012A type regulators are still SHUNT type and they short out the stator to reduce the power to the load. This is like dimming the lights in your house by shorting the wall outlet with two screwdrivers . The lights dim but you overload the house wiring unless you blow a fuse. SHUNT is very bad unless you are talking about small currents which we are not.



So a natural extension of full wave rectifiction with MOSFET's is to actually do series regulation all in the magic of timing the turn on turn off of the devices to acheive both rectifcation and regulation at the same time. Power dissappation drops significantly and the stator only has to supply that which is required for the load.



These devices can be made very robust in terms of voltage and current capacity with very low drop out. The are ideal for high output at minimum RPM.



Here is a brief overview of power switching. The final figure is what we have on the GS charging stator/rotor/Rectifier (regulator not shown). The low power timing circuitry is all that is missing.



http://www.allaboutcircuits.com/vol_3/chpt_7/5.html#03222.png





So given the 40 amp capacity and small form factor of the Compu-fire device, I'm assuming this will be a very robust design and even exceeds all fo the original goals I set out for my design (save for a 6th wire). So this should be a direct bolt on for any GS to solve most of the shunting over heating issues and burning wire/connector issues (stator side at least).



If you look up the parts or are studying the different rotors/stator combinations, the Compu-fire 55402 is a general purpose 3 phase SERIES R/R that works with the 3 phase 18 pole aftermarket stator and rotors that Compu-fire make for HD's.



It should work on almost any metric bike as the current capacity is more than any stock OE and aftermarket designs. It should even work for 12 pole designs as long they are 3 phase (most all are)



I think we should end the poll, I'll start another thread after I get the device and do a comparision between FET Shunt and this device. I have a current clamp to put on the stator leads to see how it differs on the stator side and then estimate the HP savings.

 

[Steve]

Currently satisfied with my FET regulators, will see how they turn out.

Please continue development or whatever you choose, it would be nice to have an alternative if the FETs prove to have problems of their own.

.

 

[Guest]

Ssrr

Ssrr

I would get one of yours. Too bad there are replacements. But I still need to sell some GS Parts.
G

 

[posplayr]

Currently satisfied with my FET regulators, will see how they turn out.

Please continue development or whatever you choose, it would be nice to have an alternative if the FETs prove to have problems of their own.

.

If you dont run in the 5K-7K RPM range for sustained periods( 30-45 min) the FET/HONDA/SHUNT R/R should be alright even if the stator is getting hotter and causing more load than needed. 20% higher output power for stator touted by Electrosport makes it worse

 

[posplayr]

I would get one of yours. Too bad there are replacements. But I still need to sell some GS Parts.
G

The Compu-Fire is a proven production design and apparently pretty current technology (last 5-10 years at least) as well. I really have no interest in becoming a power circuits engineer

Edit: I think the design is probably less than 2 years old as it us listed as part of thier new products.

 

[bwringer]

They still using a stator in those new fangled things??? Sheesh you'd think they can pony up the duckets to put alternators on the Busa and Gixxers they could have done the dual sport riders the same favor.

Well, the permanent magnet type inside the engine still works when the engine is partially underwater, and is pretty well isolated from gravel...

 

[posplayr]

Well, the permanent magnet type inside the engine still works when the engine is partially underwater, and is pretty well isolated from gravel...

With this Series R/R the GS's PM stator should be more efficent than even an alternator. For the same power delivered:

• There is no heat loss is friction (no bearing and no brushes)
• No field windings to charge
• Less power loss in the rectifier diodes.

 

[Guest]

Would be interested in seeing a schematic for this if you have it.

 

[Theo]

I don't know if it's too late or if it will help, but here's a link to the stock HD regulator for $129

https://www.zanottimotor.com/shopping/pLookUp.php and then search part number 74505-02.

 

[posplayr]

I don't know if it's too late or if it will help, but here's a link to the stock HD regulator for $129

https://www.zanottimotor.com/shopping/pLookUp.php and then search part number 74505-02.

Most of the post 2000 HD's are 3 phase; I don't know if they are SERIES regulators. Here is one that is virtualy brand new. It is large and on stands

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Harl...5233073QQptZMotorcyclesQ5fPartsQ5fAccessories

HD seems to have the only vensors who are building aftermarket 3 phase SERIES r/R's. Not sure is OE is.

 

[posplayr]

Would be interested in seeing a schematic for this if you have it.

I don't have schematics of aftermarket R/R's. Packaging and heat disappation are key so not likely you can just buy stuff at radio shack unless it is much larger than the Compu-fire device.

 

[bonanzadave]

 

[Calvin Blackmore]

my conmfusion has no end

is i gonna get a nice one off re gect or are people gonna keep posting obtuse crap in this thread?

 

[posplayr]

my conmfusion has no end

is i gonna get a nice one off re gect or are people gonna keep posting obtuse crap in this thread?

I have this one on order; should arrive by Friday. The only options for a 3 Phase, SERIES R/R are the Cycle Electric 600 series or this one from Compu-fire. Some of the complete pakages like Banasadave posted might work if you see trhee wires coming from the stator (his does) but you have to buy the rotor/stator. The one I ordered is actually a replacement for the combined R/R-stator-Rotor kit.

http://www.thegsresources.com/_forum/showpost.php?p=1226489&postcount=22

 

[Guest]

Wasn't planning on building one. I'm an electronic design technician so was just curious about the circuit operation.

I don't have schematics of aftermarket R/R's. Packaging and heat disappation are key so not likely you can just buy stuff at radio shack unless it is much larger than the Compu-fire device.

 

[posplayr]

Wasn't planning on building one. I'm an electronic design technician so was just curious about the circuit operation.

Posted earlier ; see linky

The newer designs implement the diode bridge with Power MOSFET's which reduce the forward diode drops down to maybe 0.2V @15amps (0.2x15=3 watts) , so the power savings are significant. Unfortunately the FHA0012A type regulators are still SHUNT type and they short out the stator to reduce the power to the load. This is like dimming the lights in your house by shorting the wall outlet with two screwdrivers . The lights dim but you overload the house wiring unless you blow a fuse. SHUNT is very bad unless you are talking about small currents which we are not.



So a natural extension of full wave rectifiction with MOSFET's is to actually do series regulation all in the magic of timing the turn on turn off of the devices to acheive both rectifcation and regulation at the same time. Power dissappation drops significantly and the stator only has to supply that which is required for the load.



These devices can be made very robust in terms of voltage and current capacity with very low drop out. The are ideal for high output at minimum RPM.



Here is a brief overview of power switching. The final figure is what we have on the GS charging stator/rotor/Rectifier (regulator not shown). The low power timing circuitry is all that is missing.



http://www.allaboutcircuits.com/vol_3/chpt_7/5.html#03222.png

 

[TheCafeKid]

Well, the permanent magnet type inside the engine still works when the engine is partially underwater, and is pretty well isolated from gravel...

Ah, good point. I often forget that bike was designed as a dual purpose. I have only ever seen them decked out in street/sport touring garb.

 

[posplayr]

Got the Compu-Fire on Friday. I have it installed and the wiring is such that I will be able to do back to back tests with the FET based SHUNT R/R and this Compu-Fire SERIES R/R.

Here it is mounted. Took a little work but not bad if you have a welder. The unit is 3.75" x 2 1/2" but the bolt spacing is different to the GS bikes. It is very nice quality and seems to charge well but I have not taken any quantitative measurements other than my installed volt meters.

I had to drill new mount holes and weld some new nuts. I can still revert back. I'm pointing to the two new mount holes.

You can see here I had to trim one corner to fit. You can even see it and it all fits nicely under the cover. It fits even nicer than the FA0012A.

You can see the open cavities at both ends. There are taped holes in each for grounds.

Bottom line this is a very nice unit, my bike is running even cooler just going 4-5K RPM and I can put and hold my gloved hand over the stator cover (which was painful before).

 

[Turtleface]

Got the Compu-Fire on Friday. I have it installed and the wiring is such that I will be able to do back to back tests with the FET based SHUNT R/R and this Compu-Fire SERIES R/R.

Here it is mounted. Took a little work but not bad if you have a welder. The unit is 3.75" x 2 1/2" but the bolt spacing is different to the GS bikes. It is very nice quality and seems to charge well but I have not taken any quantitative measurements other than my installed volt meters.

I had to drill new mount holes and weld some new nuts. I can still revert back. I'm pointing to the two new mount holes.

You can see here I had to trim one corner to fit. You can even see it and it all fits nicely under the cover. It fits even nicer than the FA0012A.

You can see the open cavities at both ends. There are taped holes in each for grounds.

Bottom line this is a very nice unit, my bike is running even cooler just going 4-5K RPM and I can put and hold my gloved hand over the stator cover (which was painful before).

Looks nice! I'll have to keep an eye on my Electrosport, if it ends up going toasty, I'll have to try one of these out. And anything that can help a motor run cooler here in Phoenix is worth considering.