suspicious slow oil leak

[MOC]

Greetings fellas,

I've discovered a slow oil leak from around the vicinity of my gear selector. I'm not entirely sure what to expect when i tear things apart so I am hoping you can offer some insight into what might be leaking, and how involved a repair will be. the leak is about an ounce every 100 miles or so, and is dripping out of the engine directly beneath the shifter:

I've found some other threads with similar problems, and most of the suggestions have been the shaft seal on the selector itself, but I'm worried it might be something more sinister as well.

What can you all tell me about the best case/worst case, and what kind of work will it entail?

I really don't want to have to pull the motor.

 

[Steve]

I really don't want to have to pull the motor.

Would you be the least bit upset if I suggested pulling the shifter cover and cleaning the area behind it, then going for a short ride to see exactly where it's leaking? :-k

.

 

[Guest]

3 possibilities.

1 shifter seal.

2 clutch pushrod seal

3 output shaft seal.

The shifter seal is not pressurized so it only holding back oil in the base

The other two have oil pressure just behind them and are prone to leaking after a while.

I would say the pushrod seal, just because mine has failed a few times with the one piece shaft. The two piece hasn't given the same problem.


Remove the shifter,

Remove the foot peg bracket.

Remove the case cover bolts and cover

Clean the area well. if you have not found the leak by then you could put it back together and run it to see where the leak is coming from. You could use baby powder to find the leak as well.

 

[MOC]

3 possibilities.

1 shifter seal.

2 clutch pushrod seal

3 output shaft seal.

I'm not going to need any special tools for any of this am I? My Haynes manual is devoid of pictures in this particular area of the bike and i'm a pretty visual learner.

Weather permitting, I'll be pulling off the cover and finding the source of the leak this afternoon.

Thanks as always

 

[Charlie G]

There is an o-ring behind the gear sensor switch that could be a problem as well. Could be all or oil off the chain.

cg

 

[MOC]

There is an o-ring behind the gear sensor switch that could be a problem as well. Could be all or oil off the chain.

cg

I'm pretty confident this is an oil leak. i have to top the bike off every few hundred miles, and there's a 3 inch wide oil stain under the bike when i park it anywhere after riding. it never used to do this

 

[MOC]

Ok fellas, I tore into the bike this evening to get a good idea of what's going on. Here's what I found.

You will need:
12mm wrench
screwdriver
Copious amounts of engine degreaser
A pail of rinse water
an old toothbrush

For the benefit of anyone doing this for the first time, here's what to look for:

There are 5 screws and 2 bolts. Start with the footpeg, then the selector lever, then the screws (Circled)

Pivot the footpeg down and out of the way:

Then remove the gear selector:

And pop the cover off. It can hang by the clutch cable off to the side while you get the crud out:

Get the crud out. A liberal bath in degreaser, then a few passes with the toothbrush, then some more degreaser, then a rinse with some water will get most of it out. I wasn't surgical with my precision. I just wanted to get the area clean enough that i could find the source of the oil:

Nothing at this point really led me to believe any of the seals were bad. I wiped as much leftover crud out to ensure the seals were all dry to start. Then I put everything back together again and went for a spin. Assembly is the opposite of disassembly. Very easy. I did about 10 miles of stop and go city driving, plus a nice mile long run down the highway for good measure. Prior to leaving, I checked the oil level and re-oiled my chain to replace any oil that had washed off during my cleaning.

After returning I popped everything off again, and this is what I discovered. First, looking at the gear selector shaft, the rubber around the metal was relatively dry, and what residue that WAS still there was leftover from my scrubbing. There was no obvious dripping or oil leakage there:

The clutch assembly, however, was showing a bit of a leak, that i'm assuming gets worse when the clutch is engaged:

It wasn't alot, but I'm assuming that a longer ride will give the seal more opportunities to spit engine oil out. I'm not sure what it will take to replace this seal, but I'm hoping it's not a bear.

Any advice you have on how i can remedy this is greatly appreciated. thanks as always for your help.

mike

 

[Guest]

Good job. Pretty much everything you fix on this bike will be the same with that kind of attention to detail and evidence.


So your next step is to get the sprocket off and take the plate off behind that.

An impact gun will take it off and an axle socket (22mm I think) will be the easiest thing to find or borrow if you can't find a socket in that size.


Once you get the sprocket off, bend the tabs holding the 10mm head bolt's and take them out.

Once the bracket is removed you can start to take the seal out.

There is no easy way to get the seal out. Most people have had luck with wood screw's, drilling a small hole and use the screws to pull the seal out.

Most of the time is stuck in place and come out in chunks. I'm sure that there are pictures and posts around here. I've seen it a few times.


Once you do get it out, the new one goes in easier.

There are two types.
1 flange type ( can only be removed by splitting the cases) ( old style)
2 normal seal .

Get the normal one. You can tell the difference when you look at the two on the microfiche. I believe the seal is the same for ALL gs twin engines after 1980. So if you get one for a gs500, your good.

Here's proof.
GS500 oil seal

GS400 oil seal

You could get the GS500 clutch pushrod which is a two piece unit that prevents and fixes this problem.


The problem with the one piece is as you said.

 

[Guest]

Here's a place to the another manual.
http://members.dslextreme.com/users/bikecliff/

Also if you read the other manuals for the 1100's there is a ton of information about how the bikes work and what makes them tick.

The twins never got that kind of educational info in the manual's.


Also, here is a site that you can look at the microfiches for part assembly or part numbers.
http://www.cmsnl.com/suzuki-gs450-l-1980-1982-usa_model16018/partslist/

 

[Guest]

Also, get yourself the proper retaining plate for the seal as well if you're going the non-flanged route. It will ensure it stays in better. Still available from Suzuki and dirt cheap I believe...

#24 in the picture, part #23117-44102

 

[MOC]

You could get the GS500 clutch pushrod which is a two piece unit that prevents and fixes this problem.

What's involved with this process? do those pushrods cost a lot?

my tentative plan is to replace the seal, the retaining plate, and possibly the clutch pushrod. I don't think i will have time this week to do this, but hopefully soon. until then, i'm going to keep a little bit of 10w40 on hand and just top it off as needed.

Also, am i going to need to empty the oil pan before i do this project, or can i leave it as is? I need to remember to empty my oil catch jugs if this is the case.

 

[MOC]

Also, get yourself the proper retaining plate for the seal as well if you're going the non-flanged route. It will ensure it stays in better. Still available from Suzuki and dirt cheap I believe...

#24 in the picture, part #23117-44102

does the factory retaining plate not work? did they change the design?

Edit: after looking at the parts fiche a bit more closely, it looks as if the design is different on the non-flange type. I'm putting in my parts order today. I'm buying a replacement seal and a new bracket. I don't want to deal with replacing the clutch push rod yet. that can come another day. hopefully things will show up late this week or early next.

thanks fellas

 

[Guest]

If you want the two piece pushrod it's on the same fiche page there.

And yes, they changed the retaining bracket as well as the seal. I'm assuming at the same time so the new bracket holds the non-flange type more securely.

 

[MOC]

Parts are ordered. I skipped the replacement pushrod for the time being. that will have to wait until later. with any luck the parts should be here friday and i can get it all sorted out for a ride on saturday with my old man.

thanks for the help fellas. I will attempt to document the process some more for the benefit of other rookies like myself

 

[Guest]

Good stuff, and yes definitely let us know how it goes!

You will definitely need a hand to torque the sprocket nut back up and make sure it's nice and tight.

 

[MOC]

Good stuff, and yes definitely let us know how it goes!

You will definitely need a hand to torque the sprocket nut back up and make sure it's nice and tight.

any tips on keeping the final drive shaft stationary while i crank on that nut?

also - i've got a nice torque wrench, so i'm confident i can get pretty close to the factory spec using my body weight and the proper tool. I'll see if i can coerce my room mate into helping. he's a lazy one, but he likes beer...

also also - Is this an opportunity to replace the drive sprocket with one that's got more teeth? i'd like to get a bit more legs out of the first and second gears, and bring the revs down a notch on the highway. will i need to replace the chain, or can i just move the rear axle forward to give myself enough play for a new sprocket? i'm probably only going to add 1 tooth. 16 teeth to 17 translates to about 6.5% increase, or about a 6.5% decrease in revs at any speed.

you guys rock.

 

[Wallowgreen]

Thought you may be interested in a little background reading from when I did the same job on our 250. Yours will be easy in comparison.

http://www.thegsresources.com/_forum/showthread.php?t=153348

Good luck!

EDIT: The only way I've been able to remove front sprocket nuts is with a second pair of hands wedging the sprocket still with a wrecking bar or similar and use an impact wrench with the correct size socket. All attempts to remove with hand tools only have not been successful for me.

 

[MOC]

Thought you may be interested in a little background reading from when I did the same job on our 250. Yours will be easy in comparison.

http://www.thegsresources.com/_forum/showthread.php?t=153348

Good luck!

EDIT: The only way I've been able to remove front sprocket nuts is with a second pair of hands wedging the sprocket still with a wrecking bar or similar and use an impact wrench with the correct size socket. All attempts to remove with hand tools only have not been successful for me.

much obliged. i'll be sure to investigate this. I saw a trick in one manual where a guy had a scrap length of chain that he folded over on itself and that wedged against the lower case and jammed the sprocket. i'm thinking it might be worth a try.

 

[Guest]

I just typically get my mate or my wife to stand on the back brake, has worked every time so far.

 

[MOC]

The parts have arrived:

No promises that I will get started on this project this weekend. The leak isn't fast enough to merit major concern at this point, so I'm going to wait until I have a totally free weekend ahead of me. This weekend is booked, but eventually i'll get to it. I'll keep you fellas posted once I break ground.

thanks
mike