The non-running GS450ET is now RUNNING!

[Guest]

I confirmed the surging was from too rich a mix by running the bike cold and noticing that the performance was better cold than when warmed up. I'm going to lean it out some. Guess I didn't need thinner needles after all!
Pete, you can do the same thing without a tuner. Just pay attention to how it runs in the first four minutes of riding compared to after ten minutes. If performance goes down when warm- it's too rich!

Mine doesn't seem to matter... but it really doesn't stay cold enough for long enough either for my slow brain to work it out.

I have 0 confidence in my ability to look at plugs and go by feel which is why I want the fancy way I guess... for the moment I'll put up with the richness because at least I know I'm not going to hole any pistons...

 

[surviverguy]

Going with the idea that my current set up (30/130/ needles raised 1mm) was too rich I leaned it out. I took the 30 pilots out and put the stock pilots in and lowered my mains from 130 to 120 and lowered the needles about .75mm from stock position (or 1.75mm lower than testerday's position) ...and took the bike out for a test drive. I got 200 meters down the road and came right back home!
It was so lean that there was no pulling power...it ran like crap. The only thing that worked better was the choke.
I pulled the carbs back off the bike and raised the mains back to 130 leaving the needles lowered .75mm below stock position and left the stock pilots in place.
I Took off again for another test ride and found and it was much better. The difference between night and day. It's the best running setup so far. I still get a tiny bit of surging at around 3/4 throttle at about 6krpm but it's much better running and faster than ever and also using less fuel.

 

[Guest]

Glad to hear you're getting her dialled in

I think my ignition issue was contributing to my poor economy around town.

Last tank when I felt that surging I figured it was out of fuel as I'd hit the 170km I've been getting around town. However, I only put 8 litres in and figured maybe I hadn't filled it properly last time?

Anyway, so far I'm over 180km on this tank after I definitely filled it properly and I'm still not on reserve yet.

The tank between this and the last one included a bit of an out and about weekend ride and the first tank after sorting the issue was the GSR run, and when out and about like that I get something like I'm used to getting 230km's out of a tank.

I'm keen to see how I much I get on this one before needing reserve... might have had ignition issues for longer than I thought!

 

[surviverguy]

Mine doesn't seem to matter... but it really doesn't stay cold enough for long enough either for my slow brain to work it out.

I have 0 confidence in my ability to look at plugs and go by feel which is why I want the fancy way I guess... for the moment I'll put up with the richness because at least I know I'm not going to hole any pistons...

I can help you tune your bike from the other side of the world. I am your cheap tuner. The first question to ask is how does it perform at full throttle? Does it fly like a bat out of he'll? Y/n
If yes then the main is close enough. The midrange issue you have is from being too rich. That's the surging. There's no mistaking surging. Surging pushes your body forward and back and forward and back. To cure midrange surging it's all in the needle. To lean the midrange you have two choices- either lower the needles you have 1mm for starters or get a different needle.

 

[Guest]

I can help you tune your bike from the other side of the world. I am your cheap tuner. The first question to ask is how does it perform at full throttle? Does it fly like a bat out of he'll? Y/n
If yes then the main is close enough. The midrange issue you have is from being too rich. That's the surging. There's no mistaking surging. Surging pushes your body forward and back and forward and back. To cure midrange surging it's all in the needle. To lean the midrange you have two choices- either lower the needles you have 1mm for starters or get a different needle.

See here's the thing... I *think* it pulls ok up top but I can't remember properly how it used to pull in stock form, so I'm not sure if it's right or not...

As for the needle, well, until I get those mains sorted I don't want to touch it... my greatest fear is too lean and too hot and a hole in a piston... yes I'm a touch paranoid...

And it does bog just off idle too...

Don't stress, I shall get it tuned... eventually

 

[surviverguy]

See here's the thing... I *think* it pulls ok up top but I can't remember properly how it used to pull in stock form, so I'm not sure if it's right or not...

The way it pulled in stock form is irrevelant. The correct main to use is the one which is the fastest at full throttle. You don't have to do plug chops. You are in the right ballpark at 140. You don't have to be in 6th gear to test acceleration. You could test it with a stopwatch in third gear for example and you don't have to travel very far either. Since you aren't racing this bike at a track the rpm range you want to test is 3krpm-8Krpm.
On some road when traffic is low pass a fixed object on a road at 3K and go to full throttle and watch the tack. Note either how long it takes to get to 8KRPM in seconds on note another fixed object on the road you pass at 8K.
To test if it is the best jet to use you have to make a change to compare. You can either go up or down on the main. Either way doesn't matter and a change of one jet size won't burn a piston on a ten minute ride.
Another way to judge the accerleration (which is what I do) is just to pay attention to the G force....how much does it throw you backwards when you full twisty da throttle...

 

[surviverguy]

As for the needle, well, until I get those mains sorted I don't want to touch it... my greatest fear is too lean and too hot and a hole in a piston... yes I'm a touch paranoid...

Moving the needle less than 1mm won't burn a piston. You've got a main which MUCH larger than stock. It's safe to assume using stock pilots and stock needles that you are too rich in the midrange. Adjusting the midrange is the most important thing to do because 90% of the time you are operating in midrange. Those needles either need to be replaced with leaner needles or the needles need to be LOWERED- The needles are held in position by the come shaped yellow plastic piece which is secured with the dammit clip, I mean the "C" clip. The spring pushes the needle upwards. To raise the needles- unlock the clip and remove the clip and then remove the plastic needle "retainer". Add some washers under the plastic donut on the top of the needle. Measure you're washer/s. Add at least 1/2mm up to 1mm. The proper position is the position which gives the smoothest acceleration.

 

[surviverguy]

As for the needle, well, until I get those mains sorted I don't want to touch it... my greatest fear is too lean and too hot and a hole in a piston... yes I'm a touch paranoid...

And it does bog just off idle too...

The midrange will be too rich whether you use 120, 125, 130, 135, 140, 145, or 150 main. The main will slightly affect the midrange below 3/4 throttle but very little.

 

[surviverguy]

See here's the thing...
it does bog just off idle too...

Bogging can be too rich or to lean. In this case it's too rich because you're main is huge. If you're nervous about leaning out the midrange you can go up on the pilot. A 20 pilot isn't even noticible. A 25 pilot works fine. A 30 pilot works ok but you have to adjust you're mixture screws to about 1/2 turn out or less and the choke won't function.
You can confirm that the just off idle bogging is due to being to rich by leaving the needles alone and raising the pilot size. If too rich it bog even more.

 

[surviverguy]

Don't stress, I shall get it tuned... eventually

I'm not stressing at all.. don't worry about that. You can leave the bike rich forever... it doesn't affect me at all. I wanted to offer guidance and encouragement to you. You are very active member on this forum and have spent hours and hours encouraging others.
Just play with it a little. Try to just change one thing at a time- although it's not essential since you know how the circuits operate- you can change three things at once...
You know how the eye doctor finds the right prescription for glasses? he makes a change and then asks- "is this better is worse"? Do the same thing on your carb. Don't be afraid. You're engine will last longer not running too rich. You're fuel econmy will improove and your pride and satisfaction will climb as well.
Pay yourself to learn to tune instead of buying some fancy gadget.

Even if you had the world's greatest exhaust testing machine and a dyno- it's still trial and error and takes some time....
Make one change a day for example and in one week from now it'll be tuned as good as possible.

 

[surviverguy]

Yesterday I bought some more goodies for the bike's next major upgrade....

A new reservoir for the master cylinder. I hated the way the 30 year old one looked- even though it worked ok......



A set of new case savers. They are designed for a GS550- so I expect to do some mods to them to attach them. I like them better than any of the ones I've seen for 450's.....and they were only 50 bucks with free shipping....

A new switch for adding extra electrical capabilities....


Some (6 sets) yellow/amber LEDS to add to the left (3x) and right (3x) side of the new trunk....

3 sets of the red leds for the rear of the trunk

A waterproof digital clock- so I can tell what time it is while riding...

A magnetic tank bag for carrying small stuff....


A new brake handle- cause I like it more than my current broken handle....

some long stem mirrors so I can see who's behind me without looking at my shoulders...bar end mirrors would have worked also, but would have been more vulnerable to breakage and I like "old school look" of perch mounted mirrors....

 

[surviverguy]

So I'm currently waiting for the new sprocket
and the windsreen/windshield



and the new trunk


and the new handlebars

and the handlebar clamps



and the the "new" to me clutch perch

and the digital voltmeter.....!!!!!

 

[surviverguy]

I didn't have much time yesterday to test the performance. Today I took it on a test ride. There is an interstate highway with a 70 mph speed limit about from 5 miles from home. I rode to the expressway and then ran the three miles to the next exit holding it wide open in 5th gear and was running 70-75 mph (120KPH). I didn't try shifting into sixth gear...not sure why I didn't try. The engine was turning about 6KRPM. I thought about a plug chop, when exiting the highway, but didn't have any tools with me. I'll try it tomorow in 6th gear warmed up a little more, with fresh plugs and do a chop. I still don't know if 125, 130, or 135 is best. I am currently running a 130 main. I'll guess the 130 is better than 135 (rich?). Both the 125 and the 130 perform well. 120 is too lean. (Running K and N pod filters and stock exhaust).

 

[rteam2]

What mirrors did you order?

 

[Guest]

Mate thanks for the encouragement, I will definitely get back to tuning. The wideband idea is partly for tuning and to be honest it's partly also just because it's something that is very interesting and I can potentially use on other bikes and loan to trusted others also. The wideband I'm eyeing off is actually a DIY kit with data logging so it gets me fiddling with assembling it which is also something I enjoy very much. And I'll need to make up a sniffer pipe as well and again interesting... I've discovered without a project or mini project to keep me occupied I'm getting a tad bored. It's very difficult right now with the Ducati on hold due to lack of time and funds... and there are going to be other times when it's on hold waiting for hard to find parts etc. so I don't want to get bored.

Anyway, enough about me

Those bits look the goods! My original M/C reservoir ended up cracking it was so old and brittle, so good idea to replace it.

I'd love crash 'bars for mine but I think that will have to be a custom job as none of the ones I've seen would work with my headers exiting on the left side.

But what are the handlebar clamps for?

 

[surviverguy]

What mirrors did you order?

The mirrors as pictured on ebay Top-rated seller
Member id lrayc5 ( Feedback Score Of 21850

)
100% Positive feedback

They were $27.00 with shipping. I can't say if their the best value out there or not. I liked their simple design. I received them quickly (3 days)and mounted the right one already. I haven't done the left yet cause I have to remove the grip to get clutch perch off AND I'm putting on new handlebars when they arrive. Their construction is plastic and definately not as beefy (sturdy) as the stock mirrors, but their viewing position is much better...I don't have to move (twist) my body, to the side, to see what's behind me- like with the stock mirrors. The glass is so clean (new) that they're a real pleasure to look through. So far I'm happy with the selection of those mirrors. When braking - I always look behind me...

 

[surviverguy]

But what are the handlebar clamps for?

The idea I have is to use the stock handlebars as replacement bars since I bent my current handlebars when I dropped the bike. I wanted to have a cross bar with 7/8" tubing since lots of accessories come as 7/8" bar mount std. To add a crossbar- motorcross style- inspired- I imagined two methods. One way would be to weld them. Another way to add the crossbar would be to clamp it to the bars...so I bought the clamps to clamp the crosstube to the handlebars. For a crosstube, I'm planning to use a section of the old bent bars after I remove them. I bought three sets of the clamps in total. One for attaching the crossbar and the other two sets to use as needed for accessories. AT $6.00 a pair with free shipping...what the HEILLL!
I have a digital voltmeter and a digital clock to mount and who knows what else I'll come up with? I might add a drink holder, but haven't bought one yet.

​

 

[surviverguy]

Honestly- My tuning efforts with the K and N pod filters don't seem to perform better than (how I imagine stock would be)!:clap: I had a look on ebay recently and spotted a "good" airbox for ten bucks plus ten bucks for shipping and decided to buy it.:-\\\:clap: I'll have to move the engine to make room for the airbox installation. I'll try using the K and N pods inside the airbox since I already have them.