The open source Rectifier/Regulator

[samson66048]

Many thanks Boondocks

Many thanks Boondocks

I had a used on and hooked up as you said, but things were not going so well, so thought I would inquire in here. Will hook this new one up the same. Once again many thanks, John.

 

[bakalorz]

curious what happened here too. any answers anyone?

Well ... Very short version of long story ...
made first prototype on breadboard ...
Jameco sent some wrong parts ...
Jameco fixed it, but a contractor was remodeling our house by this time...
that killed two months
Then Wife had a baby ... this killed a few more months of playtime for me.
Found out not only regulator was hosed, but also stator, so I cant test on bike.
It got too cold to ride or work on bike.
Found out stator may be allright, just bad connection ... we'll see
Ran some simulations and improved expected performance.
Built prototype #2 on breadboard which showed improved performace.
played around with parts substitutions on prototype to get best temperature compensation
Built actual soldered on a circuit board version to put on bike, still have to mount up power components on heatsink though.

Which was where I was at when I got a Private message asking about it, and then found the activity in this thread.

---------

So here's the deal.

I haven't got mine on the bike yet, and I haven't tested it with the bridges and SCRs at all yet.
And I may still make some changes based on beta testing and comments.

I was planning to get mine on the bike, running, and tested before I released anything

but I have a description, parts list, schematic, and PC board layout based on what I think it will be ...

If you want to beta test, its not that far along yet ...
If you want to alpha test, PM me and I will send you a ZIP file with everything so far.

Realize that so far I haven't tested the whole thing yet, nor has it been on the bike (in fact, I'm not even sure of how I'll end up enclosing/mounting it)

The description is detailed enough that an electronic hobbiest or tech should have no trouble


So if you're interested, PM me with an email address where you can accept a ZIP attachment


Martin Bakalorz

 

[bakalorz]

Wooo Hooo, its done

Wooo Hooo, its done

So I finally finished my regulator and got it on my bike last week.
Bought the cheapest new battery available for it at WalMart, and charged it. Installed everything, and went riding three times on it over the warm sunny weekend.

So the bike does something really wierd now ...

There's this button on the right handle-bar, and when I push it, the bike just starts ...
No need for jumper cables or push starting anymore.
Ever since I bought it, the electricals were shot.
Even when I bought it, it had to be jump-started to get going.
(I suspect thats why I got a pretty good deal on it !!!)
So I got __REALLY__ good at push starting it.
So for now, pushing a button to start it is just weird for me. \\/

After buying it, I found the GSR and found out it was not just the battery, but also the regulator.
And hence this thread, and building (and offering the design to all) the Regulator/Rectifier.

So the status as of now is:
The R/R is ready for beta-testing by anyone that has an interest.
I have instructions and drawings available now, although I may update them a few times in the coming weeks.
The one I built works perfectly.
It should be able to handle the charging on any of the GS series bikes.
Its adjustable to any charging voltage you want.
It's bigger than the stock one, but fits in the stock location on a GS650GL
(don't know about the others)
Its reasonably simple to build (If you can solder)
The electrical parts cost under $20; although finding some aluminum plate, assorted screws, wire, connectors, etc. could probably end up running you about that much too, depending on your scrounging abilities and status of your junk drawer.

It will probably take about a weeks worth of evenings to build.
If you like electronics projects and/or tinkering, then its a fairly simple/easy project.

However, I do want to say one thing ... This project is not for everyone ...If you just want to get your bike going again for the minimum effort, I suspect you would probably find it easier to get a used honda regulator on ebay.

If you do want to build one (or even just look at the design) Send me a private msg with an email where you can accept a zipped attachment.

Martin Bakalorz

Well ... Very short version of long story ...
made first prototype on breadboard ...
Jameco sent some wrong parts ...
Jameco fixed it, but a contractor was remodeling our house by this time...
that killed two months
Then Wife had a baby ... this killed a few more months of playtime for me.
Found out not only regulator was hosed, but also stator, so I cant test on bike.
It got too cold to ride or work on bike.
Found out stator may be allright, just bad connection ... we'll see
Ran some simulations and improved expected performance.
Built prototype #2 on breadboard which showed improved performace.
played around with parts substitutions on prototype to get best temperature compensation
Built actual soldered on a circuit board version to put on bike, still have to mount up power components on heatsink though.

Which was where I was at when I got a Private message asking about it, and then found the activity in this thread.

---------

So here's the deal.

I haven't got mine on the bike yet, and I haven't tested it with the bridges and SCRs at all yet.
And I may still make some changes based on beta testing and comments.

I was planning to get mine on the bike, running, and tested before I released anything

but I have a description, parts list, schematic, and PC board layout based on what I think it will be ...

If you want to beta test, its not that far along yet ...
If you want to alpha test, PM me and I will send you a ZIP file with everything so far.

Realize that so far I haven't tested the whole thing yet, nor has it been on the bike (in fact, I'm not even sure of how I'll end up enclosing/mounting it)

The description is detailed enough that an electronic hobbiest or tech should have no trouble


So if you're interested, PM me with an email address where you can accept a ZIP attachment


Martin Bakalorz

 

[duaneage]

However, I do want to say one thing ... This project is not for everyone ...If you just want to get your bike going again for the minimum effort, I suspect you would probably find it easier to get a used honda regulator on ebay.



OR go here

http://www.thegsresources.com/_forum/showthread.php?t=106882

 

[Boondocks]

Thanks, Martin

Thanks, Martin

Congratulations, Martin and thanks for your hard work.

 

[old_kiwi]

One thing that I've done to keep the (stock and orginal) RR on my GS1100GK alive was to extend the connecting cables and mount the RR under the steering head where the original "horns" (squeakers) were. A bit of additional cooling can't hurt. I also replaced the stator cable connector with proper soldered connectors with heat shrink insulation (instead of electrical tape), and redid the battery earth cable connection and also the frame - engine block earth connections. Also using a Portalac sealed battery out of a computer UPS (mainly cause they were part of a scheduled replacement program and therefor free). a bit larger than the original battery and required some mods to the battery frame to fit.
(The new horns are dual Fiamms and they're F* LOUD - powered via a relay of course)

 

[saddlewarmer]

Questions about r/r

Questions about r/r

Well here are my questions after receiving the info. thought i would post them.
1. Parts list calls for 100 ohm resistors. Where on schematic?
2. Parts list calls for 22k ohm resistors, schematic shows 2200 ohm?
3. No 1k ohm resistors shown on parts list?
4. Emitters of q4-q6 each feed a 22k resistor on board layout. Schematic does not show this.

no other questions at this time. good work on this, just my questions from the info you sent me.
Mike

 

[bakalorz]

Well here are my questions after receiving the info. thought i would post them.
1. Parts list calls for 100 ohm resistors. Where on schematic?

Oops, I ordered a bunch of stuff, and deleted lines that didn't apply to the regulator when I made the parts list, I deleted the wrong line.
These should be the 1k resistors
Good catch.

2. Parts list calls for 22k ohm resistors, schematic shows 2200 ohm?

Parts list calls for both 2.2k and 22k resistors.

I did add a comment that (2.2k = 2k2 = 2200ohm) to make that part of it more clear, since I do refer to them different ways at times ...

3. No 1k ohm resistors shown on parts list?

See comment 1

4. Emitters of q4-q6 each feed a 22k resistor on board layout. Schematic does not show this.

That was old Schematic, updated one which was sent earlier already had them added.
(BTW, they go to base, not emitter)

no other questions at this time. good work on this, just my questions from the info you sent me.
Mike

 

[bakalorz]

One thing that I've done to keep the (stock and orginal) RR on my GS1100GK alive was to extend the connecting cables and mount the RR under the steering head where the original "horns" (squeakers) were. A bit of additional cooling can't hurt.

Thats a GREAT idea. The stock location is not only out of the wind, but is directly above and behind the cylinders ... bet it gets REALLY hot in there when we're stopped at a light.

 

[saddlewarmer]

Oops, I ordered a bunch of stuff, and deleted lines that didn't apply to the regulator when I made the parts list, I deleted the wrong line.
These should be the 1k resistors
Good catch.



Parts list calls for both 2.2k and 22k resistors.

I did add a comment that (2.2k = 2k2 = 2200ohm) to make that part of it more clear, since I do refer to them different ways at times ...
Now that i know there are 22k ohm resistors in circuit, parts list makes sense! Read schematics all the time, see more different ways to specify values than i care to think of, each manufacturer seems to add their own twist.



See comment 1



That was old Schematic, updated one which was sent earlier already had them added.
I have a copy of the schematic that does not show the 22k resistors off of the BASE of the transistors.
(BTW, they go to base, not emitter)

I gotta get my glasses checked! missed that totally!

Now to try and get all the parts together. Coworker also said to try a company called FUTURLEC for parts. seems cheap enough on initial checkout ( www.futurlec.com ).

 

[bakalorz]

Quote:


That was old Schematic, updated one which was sent earlier already had them added.
I have a copy of the schematic that does not show the 22k resistors off of the BASE of the transistors.

That was the alpha testers schematic, you should have gotten the beta one a couple of hours earlier tonight, mail me if you didn't (the text file is also very different between alpha and beta, re-read it)

The 22k resistors were a late add, and are pretty much optional.
They slightly speed up the off/on transition, but are no big deal.


Now to try and get all the parts together. Coworker also said to try a company called FUTURLEC for parts. seems cheap enough on initial checkout ( www.futurlec.com ).

Oooohhh ... it looks like we have a volunteer to develop the complete futurlec parts list \\/

 

[saddlewarmer]

Now to try and get all the parts together. Coworker also said to try a company called FUTURLEC for parts. seems cheap enough on initial checkout ( www.futurlec.com ).

Oooohhh ... it looks like we have a volunteer to develop the complete futurlec parts list \\/[/quote]

Already did! the list is on my work computer, along with your email of the update i'm sure.
will post the list sometime tomorrow if i can.

 

[saddlewarmer]

And here is part # and prices from www.futurlec.com

Bridge rectifier- (MB254) 1.90
SCR- (2n6507) 2.00
Zener-(1N4735) .12
NPN Tran-(BC337) .10
PNP Tran-(2N3906) .10
LED-(LED3R) .08
Pot 10K-(CERMR10K) .80
All 1/2 watt resistors .15 per 10 (part #s Rxxxx12W)
All 1 watt resistors .40 per 10 (part #s RxxxR1W)
Shipping under $29.95(?) 4.00
Decided on 1/2 watt resistors due to low cost. 1 watt resistors to replace 4, 1k ohm resistors with 2, 1 watt 470 ohm resistors.

 

[bakalorz]

And here is part # and prices from www.futurlec.com

Bridge rectifier- (MB254) 1.90
SCR- (2n6507) 2.00
Zener-(1N4735) .12
NPN Tran-(BC337) .10
PNP Tran-(2N3906) .10
LED-(LED3R) .08
Pot 10K-(CERMR10K) .80
All 1/2 watt resistors .15 per 10 (part #s Rxxxx12W)
All 1 watt resistors .40 per 10 (part #s RxxxR1W)
Shipping under $29.95(?) 4.00
Decided on 1/2 watt resistors due to low cost. 1 watt resistors to replace 4, 1k ohm resistors with 2, 1 watt 470 ohm resistors.

Sounds Good, I noticed their prices on LM3914s and LED bars were really cheap.

Do you know how the overall price compared to jameco.com
(at the time they were the cheapest I could find)

A couple of things:

1) I would recommend the 35 amp bridges instead of 25 amp.

2) The SCRs they have don't have isolated mounting tabs, so you would need to get the "TO-220 insulated mounting kit" things they sell various places.
( It might be these, I can't tell: TO220MK TO-220 Mounting Kit 10 sets)
The SCRs are out of stock too ...

3) Get 1/4 watt resistors for the 10k ones, they are shorter and fit better in some of the spots.

4) It looks like this will work as the board: Prototyping Board - 777 http://www.futurlec.com/ProtoBoards.shtml

5) and these look like they will work as the PC board terminals:
http://www.futurlec.com/Connectors/PCBT245.shtml

 

[saddlewarmer]

i have a circuit board design program somewhere on a cd at work. trying to find it. if i can i will work up a pcb. haven't made any in a long time, but it isn't hard to do. Been looking at some smd components for the circuit. could make it real compact. Motorola makes a smd bridge rectifier for a base/repeater radio that i've seen, now if i can just remember which one!

 

[Guest]

Comm check

Comm check

Any further progress on this? Did the PCB design work out, or is it a perf-board design?

Y'all know about Mouser.com?

 

[bakalorz]

Yes, It's available, come and get it !!!

Yes, It's available, come and get it !!!

Any further progress on this? Did the PCB design work out, or is it a perf-board design?

Y'all know about Mouser.com?

I have had it on my bike since april and it has worked perfectly so far.

I have instructions and drawings available now.
It should be able to handle the charging on any of the GS series bikes.
Its adjustable to any charging voltage you want.
It's bigger than the stock one, but fits in the stock location on a GS650GL
(don't know about the others)
Its reasonably simple to build (If you can solder)
The electrical parts cost under $20; although finding some aluminum plate, assorted screws, wire, connectors, etc. could probably end up running you about that much too, depending on your scrounging abilities and status of your junk drawer.


On 04-24-2007 in post #43, I said that the regulator/rectifier was ready for beta testing, and anyone that wanted to build it should mail me.
A group of people asked for info and were sent it via email.

A couple of minor changes were made since then, and e-mailed to those who requested to be on the list.
Having gotten no changes for a while, I guess I would consider rev 0 of the design to be final as of now.

So it is (and pretty much has been) ready for release ...
I would post it here, but the forum doesn't seem to allow ZIPs

If you want to build it, Private Message me now.

and give me an e-mail address where I can send zip files.



To answer your other questions:

There is a generic PCB used in the design (RadioShack 276-170) so there is no need to etch your own.

Saddlewarmer was looking into doing a custom PCB instead, but has not gotten back to me with anything on it.



The sources I suggested were Jameco.com and 2 items from RadioShack

I looked at several sources, trying to find ones that had everything needed, and the best prices when I developed the parts list.

I believe, (but am not sure) that I looked at Mouser at the time ...

Saddlewarmer also came up with an alternate parts-list from futurelec, but they were sold out of the SCRs at the time (just checked ... not back in stock yet either)
(Futurelec's SCRs were also not isolated, which means you would need to mount them with insulating hardware ... bleh - but doable ...)

Futurelec might have been a bit cheaper, but I don't think it was much.
I would recommend Jameco.com and the original parts list.

 

[ggreenfield]

So who has built this r/r (besides bakalorz)? How did it work out for you? I'm fortunate enough to work at an electronics manufacturer and could probably get some parts pretty cheap so I'd love to try this out.

 

[posplayr]

Seems like bakalorz put a lot of effort into this

Seems like bakalorz put a lot of effort into this

I'm retracing this old link. The on line schematics are not avaliable anymore. I PMed Bakalorz for his schematic and plans. Will see if he is still around.

Posplayr

 

[Matchless]

There are a couple of schematics for this type of regulator, but they turn out to be a bit clumsy to assemble and prone to environmental attack, heat, water, mud etc. The best approach is to use the highest capacity (current & voltage limits) components you can fit into the housing and it should preferably have a transistor controlled the scr gate. The voltage should also be adjustable, allowing you to tweak it to whatever pickup point you are using for your monitor and all three phases should have an scr for regulation. The GS needs to always have the oil level at the top as low oil tends to allow more overheating of the stator during abnormal conditions.
Use a Dremel to cut out the epoxy that holds the old components and rebuild it in the same housing and reseal again with epoxy.