Tire bead question

[wilsonsandy07]

Hey folks. Generic tire question for everyone.

I just mounted new bt46s on stock gs cast wheels. Is it normal for the bead to break if the tire is deflated all the way? It seems to be seating just fine, but I took out the valve core to swap it and when the tire deflated all the way the bead broke. I’m able to get it back seated, just wanted to check if it’s just not holding because it’s newly mounted or what. I have it aired up and back on the bike and it seems fine, haven’t ridden yet waiting to get rear done as well.

 

[Who Dat?]

What year/model of GS?

Are you using tubes?

The early cast wheels were not certified for tubless use and did not have a ridge just inside the bead area to hold the tire.
You can still probably use it tubeless, just be aware that it can separate when fully deflated (as you have noticed).

 

[Nessism]

1100E wheels use tubes. No wheel ridge to hold the tire on the bead when seated.

 

[wilsonsandy07]

The tires that were previously on were tubeless, and I had no trouble riding like 750 miles or so. They were also 20 years old I found out hence the swap. Let me google the bead ridge though because my wheels definitely had a ledge in them….

 

[wilsonsandy07]

After some googling I’m not 100 percent certain which ones I physically had, they are pretty similar in appearance. The tires I took off were tubeless and the bead was strong as hell, had to but out the bead breaker to get them off. But yeah, maybe I should get a tube in case.

 

[rphillips]

Hey Wilson, put "Tube vs tubeless" up there in the search box and you can read for days about these wheels and tubeless tires. Not sure if you'll find any definite answers, but there will be plenty of answers available.

 

[bwringer]

Bike details would be very helpful... c'mon, don't be so shy!

The GS model line spanned the years when motorcycles were transitioning to tubeless tech, so it's a complete hodgepodge. It's also a hodgepodge we know pretty well, but we're not clairvoyant.

In general, conversions to tubeless need to be done correctly, but can and have been done and so far there's no widespread carnage. If you're not 100% sure whether to convert, or whether to keep a previous owner's conversion, then go with whatever was original, which was a tube in some cases (look on the parts diagram for the wheel).

And some tubeless GS wheels do not have the famed bead ridges. I have a photo somewhere around here, but I can't find it right now. But the tire bead still fits pretty tight.

In your case, it sounds like the tire is pretty loose on the rim. I'm very much anti-tube, but honestly, I'd feel better with a tube in that case. Or maybe try a different tire, but the BT46 is generally considered a pretty high quality hunka rubber.

 

[wilsonsandy07]

Thanks for the input everyone.

82 1100e



ive read a lot of the stuff on here about tube vs tubeless and seems like the only “conversion” is to counter bore the valve stem hole perfectly flat?

 

[zed1015]

If the rims are tubeless they will have "TUBELESS" cast on the rim or one of the spokes.
If it doesn't say "TUBELESS" then it ISN'T tubeless and you MUST use a tube.
NEVER run a tubless tyre on a tube rim without also running a tube.
Using a tubeless tyre on a tube rim runs a very high risk of rapid deflation especially when cornering due to the lack of ridge that prevents the bead flexing off the rim and air escaping.

 

[Nessism]

If the rims are tubeless they will have "TUBELESS" cast on the rim or one of the spokes.
If it doesn't say "TUBELESS" then it ISN'T tubeless and you MUST use a tube.
NEVER run a tubless tyre on a tube rim without also running a tube.
Using a tubeless tyre on a tube rim runs a very high risk of rapid deflation especially when cornering due to the lack of ridge that prevents the bead flexing off the rim and air escaping.

The early front "tubeless" wheels for both Suzuki and Kawasaki do NOT have the extra bump to hold the tire on the bead. And I've never heard of any experiencing rapid deflation with these wheels.

 

[zed1015]

The early front "tubeless" wheels for both Suzuki and Kawasaki do NOT have the extra bump to hold the tire on the bead. And I've never heard of any experiencing rapid deflation with these wheels.

Regardless of whether the early tubeless rims had a pronouced ridge or not they were designed with a sufficient sealing surface for tubeless tyres and their specific bead design and marked either TL or TUBELESS and i NEVER said these types were at risk of rapid deflation so please do not miss quote me.

I stated that he must not use TUBELESS tyres on a rim designed for running TUBES and that running TUBELESS tyres on the TUBED rim has a very high risk of deflation especially when cornering .

 

[rphillips]

I don't remember about the stamping on the wheels that long ago, it was a new thing back then. But I bought a new GS1000G, right off the showroom floor, back in "80". It "did not" have a tube in the front. The front had a tiny leak we had trouble finding. Finally found a tiny crack, covered by warranty, in the wheel, right at the valve stem hole. Rear wheel did have a tube in it. Remember because I had a flat appx. 100 mi. from home on a Sunday afternoon. A fellow Kawa. rider had a spare 18" tube with him in his storage trunk. We got wheel & tube to a service station that let us use his garage & tools, to get that tube stuffed in my 17" rim and made it back home. Like said, I Don't, but wish I could, remember if either was stamped "TUBELESS" or not. Just seemed very odd it had tube in rear & not in front.

 

[KiwiAlfa156]

The rim size code will give you a clue (e.g. 17xMT2.50). The bead profile is identified by the bead code. MT is 'Motorcycle Tubeless' and as noted above early MT rims often don't have the 'safety lip' -which some say is more about providing an easier seal to pop the the bead on, rather than a run flat feature, but I think it probably does both.

Anything else, unmarked, WM (wide measure) or most likely J on a GS can't be run tubeless as rim profile doesn't match the tire bead.

Often in the early 80s tube type tyres and tubeless tires were run on MT rims with a tube. And I might add without problem. Some times as 'insurance' against these new fangled tubeless tires, of because folk wanted to keep running their favourite rubber.

 

[Nessism]

Regardless of whether the early tubeless rims had a pronouced ridge or not they were designed with a sufficient sealing surface for tubeless tyres and their specific bead design and marked either TL or TUBELESS and i NEVER said these types were at risk of rapid deflation so please do not miss quote me.

I stated that he must not use TUBELESS tyres on a rim designed for running TUBES and that running TUBELESS tyres on the TUBED rim has a very high risk of deflation especially when cornering .

I'm not sure there is a difference between these early tube type and early tubeless front wheels, other than the valve stem. What I do know, is that there are a LOT of GS riders here over the years that have converted their tube type mag wheels to run tubeless. A LOT. And I've never heard of anyone ever having a problem. You can dig into the archives if you want, and read all about their positive stories.

 

[bwringer]

I'm not sure there is a difference between these early tube type and early tubeless front wheels, other than the valve stem. What I do know, is that there are a LOT of GS riders here over the years that have converted their tube type mag wheels to run tubeless. A LOT. And I've never heard of anyone ever having a problem. You can dig into the archives if you want, and read all about their positive stories.

Agreed.

The OP's 82 GS1100E definitely came stock with tubes. If the OP has the slightest doubt or question, then keep running tubes.

It is possible to convert to tubeless by machining a flat seat for the tire valve with a counterbore and pilot; takes about five seconds chucked into a cordless drill. Many here have done this for many years with no issues.

If you don't feel it's a good idea, then use tubes. I'm personally very carefully neutral on the issue, although I do truly detest tubes (my '83 GS850G was tubeless from the factory). I have the cutting tool needed if someone visiting my garage is so inclined.

 

[1978GS750E]

For what it's worth, I converted my '82 1100E to tubeless and have not had any issues.

 

[wilsonsandy07]

The rim size code will give you a clue (e.g. 17xMT2.50). The bead profile is identified by the bead code. MT is 'Motorcycle Tubeless' and as noted above early MT rims often don't have the 'safety lip' -which some say is more about providing an easier seal to pop the the bead on, rather than a run flat feature, but I think it probably does both.

Anything else, unmarked, WM (wide measure) or most likely J on a GS can't be run tubeless as rim profile doesn't match the tire bead.

Often in the early 80s tube type tyres and tubeless tires were run on MT rims with a tube. And I might add without problem. Some times as 'insurance' against these new fangled tubeless tires, of because folk wanted to keep running their favourite rubber.

This is new to me info about the rim codes, and if i remember correctly mine do have MT printed on them. ill have to double check when i get home though but great info.

Truthfully im not super concerned about losing the seal during a ride, (unknowingly) i just put about 750 mi. on 20 year old tubeless tires with no sealing issues. The valve core was already converted as well so presumably the PO didnt have any issues as well.

The main issue for me is right now if i were to get a flat it seems like i would lose the bead anyways so it sort of defeats the purpose of not having a tube, because i may not just be able to patch it and get it home if i cant reseat the bead with the wheel still on the bike.

my plan of action is to get both mounted up and if all goes well ride it a bit, if theres no obvious signs of issues ill try and deflate the tired with the weight of the bike and see if the bead holds after theres been some pressure and mileage added. if the bead doesnt hold i will probably throw in tubes just to be safe, if it holds then air and go

appreciate everyones input, alot of knowledge in this forum super helpful stuff and please continue to put up with the new guys

 

[Baatfam]

For what it's worth, I converted my '82 1100E to tubeless and have not had any issues.

Same here with my '83.

 

[rphillips]

Somebody had a picture on here a few yrs back of cutting that surface flat for a tubeless valve stem. It really looks good & makes perfect sense. But never knowing about that tool, all the GS's I've had I just bolt the proper size tubeless valve stem in. those faaat rubber washers have always sealed fine for me. I've been around these wheels from the start, back in "78" and always read & listen to the possible problems, but so far I've not, and Ed said earlier he'd not heard of a problem running tubeless on these old rims. Also have found most bike dealerships and city shops won't put a tubeless tire on a rim not marked "TUBELESS". So far the private, country, & garage shops won't care.

 

[wilsonsandy07]

yeah the little country auto shop down the street from me didnt say a word about it they just seated it for me and sent me on my way