tube or tubeless tyres for 1980 Suzuki's?

[ukjules]

I was just wandering what the thoughts are
for whether to use on 1980 Suzuki's with
mag wheels tubeless tyres ?
I am about to buy an Avon road rider for the front.
.

I have just checked on my Yamaha rd 1977 and the
mag wheels on it as standard
are not right for tubeless tyres. this just found out.

What are the thoughts ?
1980 gs550e
1980 gsx250
both with mag wheels.

 

[Nessism]

This topic has been debated here many times before and there is no consensus. Your bike came with tube tires, and the rims don't have the safety bumps to hold the tire close to the rim edge in case of sudden deflation. Some early tubeless rims didn't have these bumps, including the first GS tubeless front rims, so it's not strictly required, but it's highly desirable. So the decision as to whether or not you want to convert is up to you. Personally, I run tubes in the tires unless it originally was tubeless.

 

[Rob S.]

...I run tubes in the tires unless it originally was tubeless.

Ditto.....

 

[Guest]

So the decision as to whether or not you want to convert is up to you.

This sums it up. It isn't obviously safe or dangerous and everyone needs to make their own decision on running tubeless on rims not designed for it. Lots of people do it without issue, but I'm sure there have been issues for someone, somewhere.

Just to offer a contrary voice here, I run tubeless on both ends of my 1100E. The rear rim is the correct 'MT' type for tubeless tires while the front is not. In ~10,000km I have had no problems with either end beyond the rubber seal on the front valve stem rotting and leaking a bit this year. It will be replaced next spring and I expect to carry on without issues in the future.


Mark

 

[Grimly]

Ditto that. I've been running tubeless in the GSs for more than 30 years and never had a tyre come off its seating due to deflation.
Might be dumb luck, of course.

 

[fastbysuzuki]

I have been running tubeless on the 850 for 4 years with no problems, gives peace of mind when touring in case of a puncture no messing around with tubes. Well that's my two pence worth.

 

[rphillips]

Never tubes on any GS cast wheels, for me. Biggest problem, many places won't mount tubeless unless "TUBELESS" is clearly visible on the wheel (liability concerns). Many GS wheels don't have that notation.

 

[bwringer]

I've converted many to tubeless, using a 5/8" counterbore with a 5/16" pilot in a drill to machine a flat seating surface for the valve stem.

NAPA NTH 90426 valve stems are easy to get or order from your friendly local Napa store, they're the correct diameter for motorcycle wheels, they look good, and they're inexpensive ($4.69 each around here). I would not drill a GS wheel to a larger diameter in order to fit a car valve stem.
https://www.napaonline.com/en/p/NTH90426


That said, I've never advised anyone to convert. But if that's what you want, I'll do it correctly with the correct special tool.

If you're not 110% decided, use a tube. And if you convert to tubeless and want to change back at some point later, just remove the valve stem and install a tube.

I've also never heard of a problem with converting a GS cast wheel to tubeless. Or maybe it's just that the next of kin didn't say anything...


As noted, this also requires that you mount your own tires. Which is better for your health, sanity, and wallet in many other ways besides.

If you have to pay someone to mount tires, very few shops, if any, will mount without tubes unless the wheel says "Tubeless".

 

[Guest]

Biggest problem, many places won't mount tubeless unless "TUBELESS" is clearly visible on the wheel

That is easily solved with a set of tire irons and a bit of swearing on a saturday afternoon.


Mark

 

[Brendan W]

My bike is a mongrel with bits from 79 through 82.
Both wheels have the tubeless mark but the front is not drilled for the tubeless valve?

 

[bwringer]

My bike is a mongrel with bits from 79 through 82.
Both wheels have the tubeless mark but the front is not drilled for the tubeless valve?

A proper motorcycle tubeless metal valve stem fits in the 8mm-ish valve stem hole in the wheel. The far more common car valve stems are larger in diameter where they go through the wheel.

Some folks drill the wheel to a larger diameter to fit a car valve stem, but I've never been comfortable with that.

You need a flat spot on the inside of the wheel for the seal on the valve stem to seal properly. If the wheel is marked tubeless, this will already be there. On some wheels that aren't marked tubeless already, this isn't flat so you'll need to machine the area around the hole just enough to create this flat spot.


Motorcycle valve stem: the threads are the same diameter as the cap all the way down. Car valve stems get fatter where they go through the wheel.

 

[Brendan W]

A proper motorcycle tubeless metal valve stem fits in the 8mm-ish valve stem hole in the wheel. The far more common car valve stems are larger in diameter where they go through the wheel.

Some folks drill the wheel to a larger diameter to fit a car valve stem, but I've never been comfortable with that.

You need a flat spot on the inside of the wheel for the seal on the valve stem to seal properly. If the wheel is marked tubeless, this will already be there. On some wheels that aren't marked tubeless already, this isn't flat so you'll need to machine the area around the hole just enough to create this flat spot.


Motorcycle valve stem: the threads are the same diameter as the cap all the way down. Car valve stems get fatter where they go through the wheel.

Thank you. That I did not know. Looks like all I will need is a proper tubeless valve for the front and I can ditch the tube. The guy who fits my tyres saw tube and replaced tube and I had been making assumptions based on what I saw people doing to convert to tubeless.

 

[ukjules]

Until now I have never given it much thought
but forcing myself to look at what the tyre
man put on bike I have thr following this time ...

An Avon RR on the rear with a tube.
For some inexplicable reasom I asked for this to be the case
in a previous thought that tubes were better on long travels
if get puncture in deepest spain.
A Michelin on the front with no tube.

Over the years Like others I have used tubeless
and never had an issue.
I am going for tubeless.

q) Where is it marked on the wheel rim
that it is tubeless or meant to use with tubes ?
OR is it left to be obvious with the bump
on the inner ridge ?

MT I am sure means tubeless
WM on the rim means it should be fitted with a tube.

I also notice on my avon road rider that it
states it is a tubeless tyre but in small
letters on tyre says - for tubeless rims use a
tube.

 

[bwringer]

A cast wheel originally intended for tubeless use will be have the word "TUBELESS" somewhere on it. Usually this reads "TUBELESS TIRE APPLICABLE", or sometimes just "TUBELESS", IIRC.

Some tubeless GS wheels do not have the bead retention ridge. I have a front wheel from an 1982 GS1100GL on my wall that is marked tubeless and has no ridges.


As far as tires, some tires, mostly dirtbike tires, are still sold that can only be used with tubes.

Tubeless street tires can be used with or without tubes; in other words, the design of the wheel determines this, not the tire.

Spoked wheels obviously require tubes (although there are some recent adventure bikes that attach the spokes differently, and are tubeless. But that has nothing to do with your GS).

If you have cast wheels and they're not marked tubeless, then they came from the factory with tubes.

 

[ukjules]

Let me ask .. if one morning you woke up
and decided to drive 2700miles to Greece
with barely any backup (bar this site) or
money what tyre would you put on the bike ?
a gs550e 1980 ally standard wheels

I gave up with tyre levers a long time ago.

I suppose the answer is with what is meant
to be on the rims. And take a tube or
tyre can of that gunge stuff for emergencies.

tubes in tubeless tyres run hotter (or used too).
I wander if this runs true now with
say the avon road rider being a tubeless
tyre but on it with small print saying if put on a
tubeless rim insert a tube.
basically saying that it can do both but "might"
not run hot of fitted with tube ? (as they used to as tubed and tubeless
were different tyres internally).

I ran tubeless on last 5000m odyssey
and no probs. possibly luckily

 

[rphillips]

I can't imagine tire temp will be a problem, if it were the mfg. would not take the liability & print on the sidewall to use a tube on non tubeless wheel. I've never read how much hotter a tire will get, when using a tube. Also don't see a tubeless tire with a tube getting any hotter than a tube type tire with a tube. If you run tube type & have a puncture, you'll need a patch kit (or new tube), tire irons, air supply, & an hour or two for repairs. If you run tubeless, you'll need a plug kit & air supply & appx. 10 min. for repair. Remember, just my opinion.

 

[ukjules]

Yes tubes tyres add more weight and run hotter
especially if used with the course internals of
a tubeless tyre.
BUT as you say nowadays this must not be the case
as it is stamped on some Avon and Michelin Michelin tyres
that fit these old bikes .

For me it would have to be a spray can of that
gunge to get me to a garage.
No way could I get a tire off my 550 ...
If it was tubeless not a hope even if you did
get it off and then tried
to pump it up !

Just checked my 250rd , gsx250 and they both
have tubes in so the garage or mot centre
knew what they were doing .
Just my 550 with a tubeless front that needs renewing.

pic avon road rider

 

[Gorminrider]

It's going to be pretty hard to find actual "tube-type" tires for these rim sizes anyways? rarer still as front and rear "set"s? Unless you search in dirtbike tires.
BUT, If you put a tube in a tubeless tire it works fine. I haven't noticed any important effect on mine. If theydo produce extra heat it should show up in an increase in air pressure. Perhaps it does but if so, pump them to a lower cold pressure to start out.

HOWEVER, If you get a puncture in a tubeless tire +innertube, you won't easily fix it on the roadside because:
the trouble with the combination is that the innertube valve does not seal the rim hole as a tubeless valve will, so a "plug" in the tubeless tire+tube is a no go

and, you will still have to break the tubeless bead to get the tube out...a heavy bike MIGHT be able to break the bead with the sidestand on the tire, but getting the tube out ,patched, and back in without damaging the tube is very difficult- I do believe a tubeless tire is heavier stiffer and a tighter build on these rims than a tube tire is*.

so, IF you expect to be punctured in bad places without resort to facilities, in no particular order of precedence, I would be inclined to try the advice above and convert the alloy rims to tubeless , OR mount a set of specifically tubed tires given my assumption per a looser fit is correct*, OR not worry about the combo beyond especially avoiding the road shoulder where the nails and screws reside,OR find a set of newer tubeless rims from a 1982+ Suzuki. I'd say that as mentioned, the 81 rims though different in appearance, look the same as the 82 where the tire mounts. As to "non-porousity" or casting strength they "look" the same for what that's worth. I even fancy they intended to call these tubeless rims but were unable to get DOT approval in time. But I as always could be wrong.

* (because the only tube tires I have on are still fine and I didn't think to compare except I found later tubeless experience daunting by comparison)

 

[rphillips]

Probably no need to stamp tubeless on the "78" & "79" model wheels. I'm not sure, but I don't remember "any" tubeless motorcycle tires till 1980. There would be no need for tubeless motorcycle tires until after the cast wheels were used, then a few yrs for development. First cast factory motorcycle wheels I remember were the "76" Kawa LTD 900.

 

[Rich82GS750TZ]

Gonna jump on Jules? thread here because I?m planning to take the tube out of my front tire over winter. Front had a tube in when I got it 15 years ago. At each new tire change, my tire guy recommended continuing to use a tube. Said there was corrosion of the aluminum around the bead area. But said that I could probably run tubeless if I cleaned up the corrosion.

Running Shinko 705, rear is tubeless, on my second rear due to a puncture and having to ride home on/ruining the tire. I now have plug kit and portable compressor and I know how to use them.

Plug kit won?t do me any good with an tube in the front though. And even with tire irons/other proper tools to remove a tire on the road/trail side, tube repair kit, etc., I just don?t want to even entertain the idea.

So this is what the stem looks like in front wheel.

Assuming no PO bored the hole larger, Once I get the tire/tube off, I need to a replace it with a new one. I see Brian?s pic above and that?s helpful. Been doing some shopping and getting confused by some numbers. What am I looking for? Specific links would really help. Here?s a pair on Amazon, 90deg. Because why not, I?d put the other on the rear next tire change. Will these stems work on my bike, assuming the stem holes are original?

here?s the TUBELESS embossed on the wheel.