tubeless tires

[Guest]

anyone know if i can put tubeless tires on my bike?
i've checked the rims, there's no markings of any kind, and i cant find consistent reliable info online about this

 

[deven5498]

I have tubeless tires and no tubes. Good chance I'm doing it wrong though.

 

[hillsy]

What have you got on there now? If it is truly a 1985 model then it will be tubeless applicable if they are mags.

 

[Guest]

anyone know if i can put tubeless tires on my bike?
i've checked the rims, there's no markings of any kind, and i cant find consistent reliable info online about this

So you want to convert to tubeless operation or you want to know if you can put tubeless rated tires on your old tech rims with tubes inside?

There is reliable information on how to convert to tubeless on this forum, but there is no such thing in terms of whether it is safe/reasonable/OK or not. That comes down to a personal decision on whether you can live with running a setup that was not intended to work that way but seems to be pretty sound based on significant anecdotal information. Personally, I have a bit over 10,000km on my tubeless setup and will not ever willingly go back to running tubes on a street bike.


Mark

 

[Guest]

So you want to convert to tubeless operation or you want to know if you can put tubeless rated tires on your old tech rims with tubes inside?

There is reliable information on how to convert to tubeless on this forum, but there is no such thing in terms of whether it is safe/reasonable/OK or not. That comes down to a personal decision on whether you can live with running a setup that was not intended to work that way but seems to be pretty sound based on significant anecdotal information. Personally, I have a bit over 10,000km on my tubeless setup and will not ever willingly go back to running tubes on a street bike.


Mark

i wanted to convert to tubeless. thanks

 

[Grimly]

Been using nothing but tubeless on mine since 1988.
Correction, a few years ago I bought a rear wheel with a new tyre on it and just ran it. Unknown to me it had a tube in it. If I'd known that, I'd have stripped it out of there.

 

[rphillips]

Oh, this is interesting, a subject that's not been brought about before.

 

[Guest]

i wanted to convert to tubeless. thanks

Just search in this forum for 'tubeless' and you will find a pile of threads covering the details. Basically you buy and install a valve stem that seals the big hole in the rim and then mount and balance your tubeless tires as per usual.

This is the valve stem I used on my 1100E: https://fortnine.ca/en/bikemaster-chrome-tubeless-valve-stem-151402

Oh, this is interesting, a subject that's not been brought about before.

Now, now. You can't expect new guys to try searching, can you?


Mark

 

[bwringer]

The conversion is possible, and if you do the conversion you should make sure you do it correctly, but I never recommend either way.

I've never heard of a problem running a correctly converted GS wheel tubeless, but maybe the next of kin just didn't find this website.

Anyhoo, the correct valve stems are narrower at the bottom than the more common ones you'll find for cars. Fortunately, they're pretty easy to find at Napa:
https://www.napaonline.com/en/p/NTH90426
Some stores will have them in stock, some will need to order them.

Basically, these are the same diameter all the way down; the hole in the rim is about 8mm (AKA 5/16"). Metal valve stems for cars are fatter at the bottom because they use a larger hole in the wheel. There is no need to drill the hole in your GS wheel larger to fit a car valve stem; just buy the correct valve stem.

When installing the valve stem, be careful not to crush the rubber seal too much; you want to compress the seal by about 1/3. Like any rubber item, these seals do degrade over time, so I usually replace them at around 5 years. You can't get the seals separately, so I just replace the entire valve stem.


The second step, if needed, is to make sure there's a flat sealing surface inside the wheel. I use a 5/8" counterbore with a 5/16" pilot in a cordless drill to machine a flat surface if this area is curved.

Thusly -- I borrowed these pics from Bob T., since I can't remember where my photos are:

Don't go any deeper than you need to. It takes maybe five seconds with the counterbore chucked into a cordless drill.

This is Bob's pic of the Napa valve stem, and over at the top right is the counterbore/pilot tool:

Most front wheels are curved and need to be machined inside like this. Some rear wheels are flat inside so it's optional.

 

[Guest]

I've been doing a fair amount of obsessing about this tube/tubeless question for my 1979 850. I've read many posts and done many internet searches.
My rim sidewalls are stamped:
Front: N19 MT 1.85 DOT - there is NO inside bead lip
Rear: 17 x MT 2.50 DOT TUBELESS TIRE APPLICABLE - there IS an inside bead lip

Both rims already have a flat countersink for the stem.

Does MT on the rim indicate Motorcycle Tubeless? I can't find any confirmation online as every time I search I get explanations for Tire numbers and not Rim numbers.

My understanding is that these GS mag rims came along just as the tubeless tire tech was coming into play and the tubes were phased out even though the factory parts drawings do show tubes installed for my year machine. Later rims have inside bead lips for both wheels. I can imagine that by 1984 they were not longer stamped as all the mag rims were Tubeless Applicable.

I just ordered a new FRONT rim that in the ad pics shows TUBELESS TYPE APPLICABLE. I noted that the inside rim width profile seems identical to mine with NO bead lip. My intention is to compare with my current front rim and if they are the same Ima gonna just use my original front rim without tube and keep the other rim as a spare.

As a fun side note, when I removed the existing tires there was a tube in the front and none in the rear. I also discovered the likely cause of the slow leak in the rear. Pics to follow:

Note the 'stem' that was fit in the rear wheel by PO:

https://flickr.com/

Front rim markings:

https://flickr.com/

Front rim profile:

https://flickr.com/

Rear rim markings:

https://flickr.com/

Rear rim profile:

https://flickr.com/

 

[Baatfam]

Brian, always feel free to post any photos of mine here.

This is the link to the counterbore I used: https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B01I5PFQZU/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_search_asin_title?ie=UTF8&psc=1

The NAPA part number for the valve stem is: 90-426

Thusly -- I borrowed these pics from Bob T., since I can't remember where my photos are:

Don't go any deeper than you need to. It takes maybe five seconds with the counterbore chucked into a cordless drill.

This is Bob's pic of the Napa valve stem, and over at the top right is the counterbore/pilot tool:

 

[Nessism]

The early GS front wheel labeled as Tubeless tire applicable (or something to that effect) did NOT have the extra beads on the rim. Kawasaki KZ front rims are the same. Bottom line: the extra beads are a nice to have but there were major OEM's selling thousands of bikes worldwide with tubeless tires installed on wheels without the extra beads on the wheel.

 

[Guest]

This is the link to the counterbore I used: https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B01I5PFQZU/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_search_asin_title?ie=UTF8&psc=1

That's a great price, thanks for the link.

The early GS front wheel labeled as Tubeless tire applicable (or something to that effect) did NOT have the extra beads on the rim. Kawasaki KZ front rims are the same. Bottom line: the extra beads are a nice to have but there were major OEM's selling thousands of bikes worldwide with tubeless tires installed on wheels without the extra beads on the wheel.

That's surprising, but perhaps there wasn't enough room on a 1.85" wide rim for the shoulders? GSDoubleDyl's front is the first wheel I have seen marked as 'MT' that doesn't have the shoulders on it, but I can't say I have looked at hundred's of them or anything. All my other wheels are 3.0" or wider and have the retention shoulders.


Mark

 

[bwringer]

The early GS front wheel labeled as Tubeless tire applicable (or something to that effect) did NOT have the extra beads on the rim. Kawasaki KZ front rims are the same. Bottom line: the extra beads are a nice to have but there were major OEM's selling thousands of bikes worldwide with tubeless tires installed on wheels without the extra beads on the wheel.

Agreed. I have a front wheel (from a 1982 GS1100GL, if you want to know) that is marked "TUBELESS TIRE APPLICABLE" hanging on my wall and it does NOT have the "rib" in the bead area.




Also, this has nothing to do with anything, but the French and Spanish translations on the Napa valve packages have had the incorrect "snap in" phrase for years... this amuses me somehow. This is a "clamp-in" valve as in the English. "Snap-in" valves are the wider rubber valves found on modern motorcycles and cars that don't use TPMS.

Anyhoo, they're very nice valves and much less expensive than anything you'll find at a motorcycle shoppe.

 

[Rob S.]

My mechanic, a top notch builder/tuner/racer put it to me this way: my 1982 rims were not designed for them, did not originally come with them. I accepted his hint. I just didn't want another gremlin floating around my brain while doing the "buck."

I'm running the stock rims with Pirelli Speed Demons (and tubes).

 

[Guest]

bwringer - French and Spanish translations ... this amuses me somehow

I get a kick out of them too. Also the interesting translations in instructions manuals sometimes that comes from foreign lands.

 

[bwringer]

My mechanic, a top notch builder/tuner/racer put it to me this way: my 1982 rims were not designed for them, did not originally come with them. I accepted his hint. I just didn't want another gremlin floating around my brain while doing the "buck."

I'm running the stock rims with Pirelli Speed Demons (and tubes).

Yep, it's up to the owner. I never advise whether or not to convert to tubeless, but if you do decide to do it, there is a right way and several wrong ways. If you're more comfortable with tubes, then by all means use tubes.

Motorcycle tires are all about confidence. If it's going to be on your mind for .0001 second, then don't convert to tubeless.

 

[rphillips]

It'd be interesting to know what came first. There was no need for tubeless motorcycle wheels if there were no tubeless motorcycle tires. There was neither a need for tubeless motorcycle tires when all the wheels were spoke type & couldn't hold air unless a tube was installed. Just guessing the cast whls. came first.

 

[bwringer]

Yep, cast wheels came first, but they still had tubes.

Honda's "Comstar" wheels arrived in 1977, and the 1978 CX500 was the first production motorcycle fitted with tubeless tires.

IIRC, Suzuki started using tubeless tires in about 1981 or maybe 1980? (please correct me); there were even a few models with one tube and one tubeless tire. Not sure of that date, but around in there. Tubes continued in a few models a little longer -- the 1982-83 GS1100E used tubes.

 

[rphillips]

I knew tubeless wheels & tires were here by "80". I Know because my brand new "80" GS1000G had tubeless on the front, as the wheel had to be replaced under warranty due to a tiny crack at the valve stem hole. Not sure about rear. Also remember the "1976" Kawasaki KZ900 LTD was the first factory bike I saw with cast wheels.