Valve cover stuck?

[eil]

You might be able to make do with your current feelers, but the job will be easier (and potentially more accurate) if you pick up a metric feeler set. Ones that go from 0.03mm to 0.1mm in 0.01mm increments on the small end. The bonus with these is that there's no converting units of measurement and hence less chance of confusion.

 

[Seaking]

You might be able to make do with your current feelers, but the job will be easier (and potentially more accurate) if you pick up a metric feeler set. Ones that go from 0.03mm to 0.1mm in 0.01mm increments on the small end. The bonus with these is that there's no converting units of measurement and hence less chance of confusion.

Oddly enough, though I live in a 'metric' country, my foraging at several shops trip this afternoon shows me that what I have is the smallest available in my area.. go figure. But as it was mentioned earlier by another member, it's good enough for the job at hand.. but I'll be keeping my eyes open for a proper tool.

Cheers

 

[JTGS850GL]

You may find that you'll also need a micrometer or a digital caliper in order to measure the thickness of your current shims. I've seen many shims that were mounted upside down and no longer have any discernable markings visible. In lieu of that, you may also consider picking up a "thin shim" (like 2.50 or slightly less) and use that as a baseline measurement so you can use a feeler gauge to identify the correct shim size.

As for getting gasket material in the engine, you can pack the timing chain area with rags lightly coated in grease to catch the debris.

 

[Steve]

The manuals for my bikes show the cam lobes lined up with the valve cover gasket, exhausts forward, and intakes rearward. I have no idea why it isn't just straight up. That is how most of my stuff is.

The reason for that positioning of the cam lobes is to prevent either lobe from pushing a valve open on that side of the cam. That keeps the cam centered in its bearing, not displacing the little bit of oil film. If one of the lobes is pushing on a valve, it can give you some false clearance on the other valve. Line up both cam lobes so each of them is at about a 45-degree angle to its valve, check them both, without moving the crank. I have seen some manuals that specify "check both valves", but others just show the end view (which is rather confusing) and say "line up the cam like this to check the valves".

Oddly enough, though I live in a 'metric' country, my foraging at several shops trip this afternoon shows me that what I have is the smallest available in my area.. go figure. But as it was mentioned earlier by another member, it's good enough for the job at hand.. but I'll be keeping my eyes open for a proper tool.

Although the specs are, indeed, metric, the inch approximations are easy enough to use, too. Metrically-speaking, clearance is 0.03 to 0.08 mm and shims come in 0.05 increments. Imperialically-speaking (inches), clearance is approximately 0.001" to 0.003" and shims come in 0.002" increments.

No need to "convert", just use different numbers that are just as easy.

..., you may also consider picking up a "thin shim" (like 2.50 or slightly less) and use that as a baseline measurement so you can use a feeler gauge to identify the correct shim size.

Since you don't really know what shims are in the engine, a 2.50 might not be all that "thin". Since you are dedicating a shim as a "checker", you might as well get one that you know will be thinner, a 2.40.

Note that the use of a thinner shim is especially helpful if you will be working on more than one engine. Not necessarily now, but if you ever plan on getting another GS with shims, it will really help.

Also note that the spreadsheet offered in my sig can handle inch or metric measurements (you can even switch) and will also accommodate the use of a thinner "checking" shim.

.

 

[JTGS850GL]

Since you don't really know what shims are in the engine, a 2.50 might not be all that "thin". Since you are dedicating a shim as a "checker", you might as well get one that you know will be thinner, a 2.40.

Yep, I understand and agree. That's why I mentioned "or slightly thinner". The issue I'd be concerned with is when you go too thin on the benchmark shim that most feeler gauge sets I've seen start to get a little too course in resolution. The jump between gauges when you get into the thicker sizes gets a little too course for my liking. They seem to have a .01mm jump from one to the next gauge at the start and then after about .1mm they begin to jump up in resolution between the current and next gauge size.

Personally I'd still pick up a decent digital caliper since that takes all the guesswork out. I've seen OK ones go for around $25. Mine is a Mitutoyo that I've had for about 10 years. Can't even think about how many times it's been helpful. It?s just one of those tools that you never know how much you needed until you don?t have one.

 

[Seaking]

Great info, gents.. Thanks. Once I get the shims out I'll know what I'm dealing with.. (I have the micrometer as well, my RSV has the bucket shim setup as well and had to go through this process as the previous owner put the shims upside down on some of the valves..)

Odd questions but in lieu of a proper shim tool, is the 'doubled over zip tie' method safe and appropriate to use? I've read people using heavy insulated copper wire and the zip tie method.. but never heard of it before.. Or should I wait for the proper tool for the proper job?

Cheers

 

[Steve]

Personally I'd still pick up a decent digital caliper since that takes all the guesswork out. I've seen OK ones go for around $25.

You can get one at Harbor Freight for $20 (sometimes less, with a coupon).

Great info, gents.. Thanks. Once I get the shims out I'll know what I'm dealing with..

Be sure to ONLY DO ONE AT A TIME. Do NOT move the crank if a shim has been removed.

..., my RSV has the bucket shim setup as well and had to go through this process as the previous owner put the shims upside down on some of the valves ...

Not sure what size shims the RSV used, but some Yamahas and Kawsakis used 29.0mm shims. The GS uses 29.5mm shims, they are NOT interchangeable, so be sure you are using the correct shims.

Odd questions but in lieu of a proper shim tool, is the 'doubled over zip tie' method safe and appropriate to use? I've read people using heavy insulated copper wire and the zip tie method.. but never heard of it before.. Or should I wait for the proper tool for the proper job?

I have the "proper tool", but have never gotten it to work correctly, so I use the folded zip-tie. Is it safe? Between my bikes and all the others I have worked on over the last few years (probably 50 or so bikes), I have never had a problem with the zip-tie. Yes, they wear out eventually, but because it's folded over, when you see one side get cut, the other side will keep anything from falling into the engine. I have found that you can safely do half a dozen valve adjustments (including shim inventories) on a single zip-tie.

I would NOT, however use copper wire, no matter how well it's insulated. I might be OK to use, but my mind just can't wrap itself around the concept of sticking metal in there when plastic will do the job just fine.

.

 

[JTGS850GL]

I've used both methods:

The upside to the right tool is, well, it's the correct tool and does a good job at moving the valve. The down side is it takes a little getting use to, but not really too hard to work with. Once you get it down it works quite well.

The upside to the "zip tie" method is it's cheap and relatively easy. Just takes a little time to get use to where to poke it in to get it under the valve you're adjusting. Another up side is you can rotate the shim bucket even with the valve open. The down side is it can pick up a little carbon and deposit it on the valve seat. This makes it possible to get a false reading on actual valve gap until you run the engine through a few cycles.

 

[Seaking]

Thanks Steve and JT.. I've been looking for that thread information about the zip tie method and for the life of me, can't remember 'where' I saw it.. Can anyone lead a blind man to the source, so to speak?

Cheers!

 

[JTGS850GL]

Here your go: Zip Tie Method

 

[Seaking]

Many thanks JT.. that's the one.. downloaded..

I'll be checking the shims and jotting them down to see what I have in there..

The shims on the RSV are rather small in comparison to the shims on the GS.. ain't no fear of mixing them up...

Cheers

 

[Seaking]

Using the zip tie method, I was able to get one cylinder done.. started from the 4th jug (right side of bike).. Both intake and exhaust read 2.65 shims.. tomorrow I'll get the rest.. need to pick up a grabber tool.. seems I lost the manual dexterity to pull shims out

 

[tkent02]

A tiny flat blade screwdriver and a pair of tweezers works well.

 

[Seaking]

A tiny flat blade screwdriver and a pair of tweezers works well.

wish I had thought of that earlier lol.. thanks! certainly works a heck of a lot better.. Off to bed, I'll get the others done tomorrow.

Cheers

 

[JTGS850GL]

What ever you do, don't use a magnet to try to pick up the shims. If the shims get magnetized they will attract any metal shavings that my be in the engine. Tweezers and a small flat blade screwdriver are the right tools.

 

[Seaking]

Thanks JT.. picked up a pair of tweezers and yep, it went sooo much smoother and easier. I was able to finish off checking the valve checks on all of them now using the zip tie method.. wow, that one tip was awesome. Made for the process that much easier and faster, not to mention 'cheap' as heck!

Checked all valves and none will permit a 0.038MM feeler gauge under them (lobes turned to point forward on intakes, aligned with head surface, exhaust lobes pointed to the rear, aligned with surface of head, as per repair manual image, yes?)

Pulling the shims out to see what they were, found that 2 of them were placed upside down with the numbers facing up but still readable.. (previous owner valve adjustment or from Suzuki build?)

Shims for cylinder 3 were: Intake 2.70MM and exhaust 2.60MM, the remainder were all 2.60MM for intake and exhaust.

So with this information, I know I need thinner shims, but how thin should I go with to be within range? I'm hoping my buddy will be able to send me his shim collection so that I can get them all within the same range.. But failing that, what size should I start off with?

Thanks again for your assistance, it certainly made it a lot easier to do the job and comprehend the process.

Cheers!

 

[JTGS850GL]

Are you able to turn each bucket when in the inspection position? If so, then you could start with each just one size thinner. Since none of the shims is currently thinner then 2.60mm you could also start with a 2.50 shim as a reference shim and measure each gap individually to calculate the final shim size from there.

 

[Seaking]

Are you able to turn each bucket when in the inspection position? If so, then you could start with each just one size thinner. Since none of the shims is currently thinner then 2.60mm you could also start with a 2.50 shim as a reference shim and measure each gap individually to calculate the final shim size from there.

I'll have to check them again to see if they will turn in the inspection position.. I know they all turned super easy when pulling out the shims.. I'll see if I can locate a 2.50 shim locally and go from there.

Where would be a good source for shims? I'm only guessing the local shop will be expensive, if they even carry any.. I'll be needing to find a source for the valve cover, breather cover and other gaskets for when I get to the clutch etc.. Ebay?

Thanks again!

 

[tkent02]

Some Suzuki dealerships will still honor the original agreement to swap shims free of charge. Others will not. The local shop here tried to jack me for $55 for two shims. By that reasoning the stack of shims on my shelf would be worth about $4,000.
Try GhostGS on the forum here, Ray runs the Shim Club, and he's a great guy to work with too. Super great guy. He's quick, it's free and he has the right sizes.

Gaskets, any of the usual online Suzuki places will work.

 

[Seaking]

Superb!! Thanks for the info.. if I can't find anything locally I'll hit him up for sure =)

Forgot to ask before.. what is the X on some of the shim? 2.60X and 2.60 what is the difference? I recall seeing the x while recording the shim thickness.. can't remember if all or only some had it..

Cheers