Valve stem seals, without removing the cylinder head

[duaneage]

I'll throw my .02 cents in and say it's probably faster to pop the head and do it right than try to work with it together. It is a real Hillary to get those keepers in with the head off, I can't imagine working around the frame spine, with the engine where it is, and getting them in.

Unless you are generating a cloud behind you on deceleration I would leave it alone and not worry about it. If you are burning that much oil it would be good to pull the head, clean off the valve stems, and button her back up

 

[Guest]

Are you really sure you want to "attempt" this? Sounds like you need the help of a master, like Houdini. Short of that, it sounds like a desparation
attempt to save from the cost of purchasing a few gaskets. If you do this I wish you well, good luck. If it were me, I'd pull the head off.
Ropes in the cylinder, air to keep the valves up, you've got to be kidding me! I can visualize the anguish already.

 

[john82q]

food for thought

food for thought

if only it were a honda;
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n_9Y8Y2vEXw

Thing about the amazon tool is I dont like the hitting, if were miss-aligned, you could bend the valve. That could happen easy, given the clearance/access issues, also the bore for the bucket could be in peril.


had in mind something like this,YES i know this wont work on the GS, but it gives me ideas, and they hurt.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-I85URitTdM&feature=related




This is totally about cheapness, yes tearing it down would be better, but that will cost at least hundreds, seals cost just $20. If this can be done then I wont need a rebuild for a few more years.

The bikes running fine, except for the oil it uses which costs money (300 ml per 200k) Rings seal ok, compression is high, there are other leaks that ive already fixed. The only smoke I ever see is on the over run and startup.

But even if some is getting past the rings if I can reduce oil consumption, by say 50% for an investment of $20 then im still on a big winner.

 

[duaneage]

Speaking from experience I can tell you it's a tricky operation and there is only about 1/4 inch of leeway when the spring is down to get the keepers in. One slip and they go flying.
you won't be able to use the rope method because the cams will be out and the pistons will be free. Compressed air is the only option and both cams have to be off.
Good luck with it and report back how it goes.

 

[Nessism]

you won't be able to use the rope method because the cams will be out and the pistons will be free. Compressed air is the only option and both cams have to be off.

Please explain this comment. Why would the cams have to be in place to use the rope method?

BTW, Buddy already detailed how he did the job using the rope method. What's the confusion about?

 

[mike_of_bbg]

Yeah, as long as somebody is holding up the cam chain I don't see any issues with turning the crank to compress rope for holding up the valves with the cams out. But yes, it is tight work on an 8V in any case. Having the frame in the way isn't going to help. Definitely a 2-person job to me. The next time I adjust valves (not due for a long time now) I'll have to look and think about it. Some metal strap bolted down in place of the cam caps might make a good leverage point. Broom stick hooked there pushing down windowed PVC pipe over valves. Sheet in place to prevent keepers from falling anywhere they can't be recovered...

 

[john82q]

so I went ahead and started

so I went ahead and started

So last night I said "f it" and ripped in.

Airbox out, carbs off, cover off, tensioner and cams out.

Had a look and decided cylinders 2 and 3 exhaust will be the hardest with the least amount of room. so gunna start there.

took the bucket out.

made a arrangement so the engine can be turned with out the cam chain jamming, just pvc and wire the chain slides over the pvc pipes ok.

fed about a 1 foot of rope into the plug hole, turned it by hand till it jamed.
clamped a spanner to the crash bar so the engine cant turn , accidently.

made a pvc "special tool" and put it in place,

I used a piece of timber as a lever against the spine of the frame and pushed down, and this is where I stuck the first snag.

The 25mm PVC I used fitted in the bucket bore, but the spring retainer pushed up inside the PVC. (ie the ID of the tube is too big) and didnt compress the spring at all.

However in the Pic above it would seem access to the keepers wont be so bad, remember this will be the worst one. (Provided I remove the chair to access the other side)

I will buy the next size down PVC today and try again tonight.


John

 

[Suzuki_Don]

Well done John. Am watching with baited breath for the next episode. You got a lot of work done on the first night, cams out, etc. At least with the engine in the frame you have a number of good leverage points.

Good luck and keep at it.

 

[hampshirehog]

I would throw a rag over the cam chain tunnel at the very least - don't want a keeper disappearing off down there.

 

[Buddy]

You're on the right track. Good job on the chain rollers. It is a good idea to cover the chain tunnel. I let a keeper get away from me and was very relieved to find it caught in the wires next to the coils.

Buddy

 

[Steve]

made a pvc "special tool" and put it in place,

The 25mm PVC I used fitted in the bucket bore, but the spring retainer pushed up inside the PVC. (ie the ID of the tube is too big) and didnt compress the spring at all.

I will buy the next size down PVC today and try again tonight.

Not sure about using the "next size down", try looking for the heavier-duty PVC with thicker walls, or maybe a coupler from the next size down.

Either one will have thicker walls, which should engage the retainer.

.

 

[john82q]

I did it!

I did it!

piece of p iss, all too easy... really, it was no harder than any other engine i've worked on. (i'am excited, cant you tell.)

So thinking way ahead of you Steve, at lunch time to day I brought a PVC joiner, its for 20mm pipe and has internal thread one end for tap etc, (nice thick wall)

made a new special tool and put it in place.

now got out the piece of timber, one end it the frame the other i tied down with a rachet strap. used the crashbar as it was handy.

keepers came out with tweezers, relased the wood , took spring and all out.

Now what was difficult, was to get the old seal out, it was so dry and hard that i really had to mangle it up with the long noses before getting it out with a deft heave.

new seal in , pushed down with a long reach socket till it clicked into place, oiled it first.

rerigged the wood and I dipped the collets in grease and stuck them to the valve.

undid the spanner, back the pressure off, pull out the rope, I jiggled the valve with the wood and special tool to make sure things were seated.

put the bucket back in and moved on to next cylinder.

being on the outside got a better shot of installing keepers, if you compress the spring just enough it really isnt hard at all. (for me at least)

stuck on with grease

So there was wasnt really any drama, and really putting the keepers was no harder than any other head, ive done. actually access was'nt too bad at all.

So seals are in, leaving the mundane reassembly of cams and shim adjustments etc for another day.

 

[bccap]

Well done, John ! Hope this thread gets saved somewhere on the site.

 

[Guest]

John I didn't post earlier coz I had no idea, but I'm glad to see you got it done!

Can I suggest taking some extra photos of the tools and sticking a thread in the tips and tricks forum?

I'm sure others will find this very handy!

I for one am well aware of how you can come up with the most useful suggestions to things that just seem impossible or difficult, so I'll be honest and say I'm not surprised you pulled it off...

 

[Suzuki_Don]

John, Well done. I didn't think it was possible. But you've done it against ALL popular opinion (including mine). Excellent pictures too, helps others that might want to attempt this task. That bolt arrangement looks like an interesting tool, it seems to suit the application ideally.

Again, Congratulations, a job well done, for the price of eight seals.

 

[hampshirehog]

Again, Congratulations, a job well done, for the price of eight seals.

....and a bit of pipe Don!

Good job John.

 

[Suzuki_Don]

....and a bit of pipe Don!

Good job John.

Don't forget the grease Wally.

 

[Nessism]

Fantastic work John!

It's nice to watch a real master mechanic at work!

 

[john82q]

total cost
Seals $27.88 including freight, the viton ones on ebay
PVC union $3.20

every thing else was already in the shop, the grease is years old...

THe flash looking bolt and nut came from the clamp kit for the Milling machine. really any bolt would do. it was good that the pvc and the bolt made up to a solid unit, with some epoxy.

 

[tatu]

Job done! John rope trick!