Vesrah Gasket Set Failure

[bwringer]

Last summer, I rebuilt a very low-mileage GS850 engine using all-new fasteners, seals, o-rings, and gaskets throughout. All the parts I used were new OEM except for the Vesrah gasket set and stainless case bolts.

I've had excellent results with Vesrah gasket sets at least three or four times before, and I've recommended them to others several times. The gaskets and seals always seemed to be very high quality.

However, after just a year and a little over 12,000 miles with no problems, my GS850 suddenly started leaking oil from the base gasket about four weeks ago, on the left rear where oil is pumped up to the head. This area also contains a pear-shaped o-ring around the oil passages.

With a heavy heart, I ordered another Vesrah gasket set and when it arrived, I disassembled the top end of the engine. What I found was rather disturbing.

After this short time in service, the base gasket was like glass, and had cracked, which is what created the leak.

The pear-shaped o-rings were swollen and misshapen (yes, they were correctly installed and no, gas did not get into the oil at any point). The swelling caused them to bow inward and into the oil passages, helping to create the oil leak.

The cam chain tunnel o-ring (the rectangular o-ring in the middle) literally crumbled to dust when I removed the cylinder head. Yes, it was installed correctly, and was in the correct position, but it was so deteriorated that I couldn't even pick up the pieces.

You get the idea -- I'm not going to risk re-installing this crap.

So the new Vesrah kit is still in the package, and I've ordered a Cometic head gasket, as well as replacement OEM gaskets and o-rings. The case gaskets seem to be OK, so I'm leaving them in place for the moment. They're easy enough to replace if needed anyway.

Hopefully, everything will arrive this week so I can button up the GS850 and give my poor VX800 a break.

Sooooooo... has anyone else seen quality problems with Vesrah gaskets recently? As I said, I've used them a few times before, and even disassembled a couple of engines that used Vesrah gaskets, and never seen anything like this. They've always worked well and seemed to be very high quality before.

 

[posplayr]

I just ordered the second set

I just ordered the second set

of rebuild gaskets for my GS1100ED (83). The frist set from APE was mis marked , screwed up or mis packaged as it had GS1100G valve cover gaskets. I ordered another from Z-1. I plan on a Weisco Rebuild kit arriving any day now so no need for a base gasket.

It will be too bad if gaskets start going south like this. PITA to replace. I'll be watching this thread for other inputs.

Posplayr

 

[Nessism]

Major suckage on having relatively new gaskets failing. Always thought Vesrah gaskets were pretty good.

 

[49er]

Major suckage on having relatively new gaskets failing. Always thought Vesrah gaskets were pretty good.

I was impressed with the apparent quality of the Vesrah gasket set I used on my 850. The only dissapointment being the omission of the gasket, seals and o-rings for the cam chain tensioner and the speedo cable drive.

To date I have no issues, but it's early days yet! Only 8000kms since the rebuild.

 

[DanTheMan]

I had o-rings that in no way shape or form would work for the small bolt holes on both sides of the head. Having a handy-dandy o-ring kit, I found two that would work, and used them. I was a little put out with the incompleteness of an "overhaul" gasket set that didn't have all the o-rings and gaskets required to do an overhaul as well.

 

[TheCafeKid]

Brian, I have not had a problem with any of Vesrahs stuff as of yet, I will let ya know when/if i get the 750Cafe roadworthy..lol. However, I have TWICE installed a Cometic cam chain tensioner gasket a few weeks before you saw my bike at Red River, and TWICE it has failed. I installed correctly the first time, but thought it might have possibly failed due to me not tightening the bolts to spec ( I in fact HAD, but thought maybe I had missed one) and, well you saw the oil all over the place. Incidently, I also recently installed that oil cooler, and thought maybe this most recent leak was my fault as well for over filling (hard to measure with the cooler, ya never know exactly what is left over) and this still may be so, as the whole trip home today/yesterday/whatever, it didnt leak a drop, and I was running it harder than I obviously had all weekend (damnit) so, who knows, but just thought i would toss that out there. I have used Cometic gaskets before with fine success, but then again, Ive used multiple Vesrah valve cover gaskets, and a couple of full kits, with sucess as well. I have steered clear of Athena after helping with a friends bike, and I decided I didnt at all like the way those particular sets fit, especially the base gasket.

 

[Guest]

i used vesrah complete set as well

i used vesrah complete set as well

i have had issues fitting vesrah head gasket on my 850 as what was suplied as additional round gaskets to sit in the round opening in the head gasket did not fit well
also, the cam chain tensioner gasket was not suplied

i have since learnt there are various vesrah gasket designes and some seem to work better than the others (in terms of fitment)

however, i have had no leakages so far, except some minor weeping from the cam cover gasket

 

[bwringer]

i have had issues fitting vesrah head gasket on my 850 as what was suplied as additional round gaskets to sit in the round opening in the head gasket did not fit well
also, the cam chain tensioner gasket was not suplied

i have since learnt there are various vesrah gasket designes and some seem to work better than the others (in terms of fitment)

however, i have had no leakages so far, except some minor weeping from the cam cover gasket

I've never been at all comfortable with the half-assed way Vesrah head gaskets include those ill-fitting round whatchamacallits for the four corner bolts. However, they've always worked somehow. And the head gasket was fine in this case, even thought those stupid corner gaskets were sorta sideways in there.

I've also never understood why the "complete" GS850 gasket set did not include the cam chain tensioner gasket and the intake o-rings. These parts were included on a Vesrah set I installed on a Honda.

I guess the cam chain tensioner seals and o-rings and the tach cable fitting seals and o-rings would be too much to hope for. Not to mention all the seals and o-rings for the bottom end, which you have to track down one by one through 147 fiches.

We'll see what the Cometic head gasket looks like when I get it. If it doesn't make me feel warm and fuzzy, it's going back. I never want to see the inside of this engine again, so I'll cough up the ridiculous price for a Suzuki head gasket if I have to (The Suzuki OEM set is on indefinite backorder. Yes, I know there's a dusty OEM gasket set on eBay that looks like it was run over by a truck... no thanks.).

On an Athena set I installed a while back and on this Vesrah set, I had to use a Dremel to remove some material from the head gasket to compensate for a misplaced alignment hole. This was around one of the locating pins, so it wasn't crucial to the sealing, but I didn't feel good about it at all. No head gasket failures on either, though.

I'll keep y'all posted...

 

[Jethro]

I've always used OEM gaskets even though they cost 2-5 times as much.

 

[Froudster]

As Jethro says. You MUST use OEM gaskets and O rings. The pattern ones are cheaper but you'll have to tear the engine down again after a short time and replace again..........So not cheaper in the long run

 

[TheCafeKid]

I've never been at all comfortable with the half-assed way Vesrah head gaskets include those ill-fitting round whatchamacallits for the four corner bolts. However, they've always worked somehow. And the head gasket was fine in this case, even thought those stupid corner gaskets were sorta sideways in there.

I've also never understood why the "complete" GS850 gasket set did not include the cam chain tensioner gasket and the intake o-rings. These parts were included on a Vesrah set I installed on a Honda.

I guess the cam chain tensioner seals and o-rings and the tach cable fitting seals and o-rings would be too much to hope for. Not to mention all the seals and o-rings for the bottom end, which you have to track down one by one through 147 fiches.

We'll see what the Cometic head gasket looks like when I get it. If it doesn't make me feel warm and fuzzy, it's going back. I never want to see the inside of this engine again, so I'll cough up the ridiculous price for a Suzuki head gasket if I have to (The Suzuki OEM set is on indefinite backorder. Yes, I know there's a dusty OEM gasket set on eBay that looks like it was run over by a truck... no thanks.).

On an Athena set I installed a while back and on this Vesrah set, I had to use a Dremel to remove some material from the head gasket to compensate for a misplaced alignment hole. This was around one of the locating pins, so it wasn't crucial to the sealing, but I didn't feel good about it at all. No head gasket failures on either, though.

I'll keep y'all posted...

Steve and I had to do the very same thing with the base gasket when doing the top end on his sons 850. Definately not a warm fuzzy, but it hasnt leaked yet that he's noticed either. I still didnt feel good about the ill fit. Incidently, I have a Vesrah TOP kit for my 1100G, and it DID include the intake rings, the cam chain tensioner gasket, and even valve seals... odd that.

 

[brs127s]

When I rebuilt my 850, I ordered all factory gaskets and o-rings. Six months later, I had to pull the top end again, due to oil leaking from the top of the jugs. The rectangular o-ring failed. It expanded and turned hard as a rock. Keep in mind, this was the factory o-ring. My only guess was it was a fluke o-ring. Again, I ordered the factory gaskets. No problems so far, and that was about 9000 miles ago.

 

[49er]

When I rebuilt my 850, I ordered all factory gaskets and o-rings. Six months later, I had to pull the top end again, due to oil leaking from the top of the jugs. The rectangular o-ring failed. It expanded and turned hard as a rock. Keep in mind, this was the factory o-ring. My only guess was it was a fluke o-ring. Again, I ordered the factory gaskets. No problems so far, and that was about 9000 miles ago.

When I stripped my 850, that old rectangular o-ring was rock hard as well. It had been bypassing some oil too.

By being one of the few who buy OEM gasket sets, you may be buying old stock that has sat on a wharehouse self for some years! The after market sets probably have a geater turnover, with much younger rubber components and using improved compounds. Just a thought.

 

[bwringer]

Just an update --

The GS850 is all buttoned up with the new Suzuki gaskets and o-rings. New OEM piston rings, too. Purring like always, and I'm piling on some break-in miles.

In other news, the Cometic head gasket was a total sloppy POS.

Basically, the Cometic gasket is badly made, but at least it is made from high-quality materials. I had to remove slop (sort of like casting or molding flash from the coating) from several different areas with a Dremel to make it fit and make sure the oil holes would flow. It also didn't sit quite flat, which is real %$#@&*! heartwarming.

I didn't want to wait another week, so I made it work. The sealing rings around the pistons looked to be in good shape and the material seemed to be high quality. I added a wee bit of Hylomar around the oil supply and return passages just for added insurance. So far, so good.

But from here on out, it's Suzuki stuff only on my machines.

 

[Planecrazy]

Kinda ironic that you'd have problems with the Vesrah set, Brian. Last time I ordered a set of replacements for the 550 (several years back), Cycle-Recycle (don't know who I was talking to at that time) told me that Vesrah sources many of the OEM kits ... so you would think that they'd be basically identical.

I don't know if this is true or not, but since the knowledge pool at CRCII has always been so good I had no reason to believe otherwise. You might want to check again with them to see what they think and get back to us after your next visit there.

Regards,

 

[bwringer]

I think this is a new problem with Vesrah.

I've used Vesrah gasket sets several times before with no problems, and later disassembled at least two top ends that used Vesrah gaskets without seeing a gasket or o-ring problem.

I think the problems I saw with this set are something new -- a problem with their materials or molding, or maybe they've outsourced something without doing proper QC.

On this Vesrah set (installed last summer) and the one I installed this spring on another GS850 engine, I did notice that the head gaskets were much sloppier than on the Vesrah sets I installed a couple of years ago, and required tailoring with a Dremel tool to drop into place over the dowel pins and line up properly. That wasn't the case on the sets I used a couple of years before that.

 

[Dogma]

Kinda ironic that you'd have problems with the Vesrah set, Brian. Last time I ordered a set of replacements for the 550 (several years back), Cycle-Recycle (don't know who I was talking to at that time) told me that Vesrah sources many of the OEM kits ... so you would think that they'd be basically identical.

I don't know if this is true or not, but since the knowledge pool at CRCII has always been so good I had no reason to believe otherwise. You might want to check again with them to see what they think and get back to us after your next visit there.

Regards,

It is possible that Vesrah may be a source of higher-spec materials for OEM than for their own branded product. But that would only make sense if there was low-price market for the product that they were trying to fill.

Are Vesrah gasket kits significantly cheaper than OEM?

 

[Jimmy Hoffa]

Anyone know if the Vesrah complete set comes with the camshaft cover gasket?

 

[49er]

Anyone know if the Vesrah complete set comes with the camshaft cover gasket?

Yes they do.

 

[bwringer]

It is possible that Vesrah may be a source of higher-spec materials for OEM than for their own branded product. But that would only make sense if there was low-price market for the product that they were trying to fill.

Are Vesrah gasket kits significantly cheaper than OEM?

The GS850 Vesrah kit is about $70 at Z1 Enterprises, but Z1 is perpetually out of stock. It's about $100 - $105 everywhere else.

The OEM kit was around $170 at Flat Out, but I don't know what it included -- it may have been more complete. However, the OEM kit was also on perpetual backorder.

After finding the OEM kit was on backorder, I ordered the Vesrah kit from Dennis Kirk for $105 because I wanted to get back on the road ASAP. When I received it, I disassembled the engine and found the defective o-rings and gaskets, then ordered the OEM stuff I needed piece by piece.

I don't know where Rob at CRC2 got the idea that Vesrah makes OEM parts. Maybe they do, but they're not in the Vesrah kits. Most of the Vesrah materials are completely different than the OEM -- the gaskets don't look the same at all, and the o-rings are molded much sloppier than OEM. Obviously, you can't tell much about o-ring materials by looking, but the pear-shaped o-rings are the part that failed and they do look different.

To be fair, the Vesrah case gaskets are still fine and fit perfectly, and actually seem to be made from slightly tougher stuff than the cardboard Suzuki gaskets.