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What next in the Carb set up.

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G

Guest

Guest
History.

The bike has been through a number of PO and a ?rebuild? at a price. However we basically have a 1978 GS1000 with VM carbs.

So we have a 4into1 exhaust which should be equivalent to original in terms of back pressure. The original air box has been removed with foam filters in their place. The carbs were stripped and examined, two of the carbs had over tightened pilot fuel screws (the one underneath) with snapped tips. Two new bodies obtained and all 4 ultra sonically cleaned and new O rings fitted. The original main jet was way over the top, 10 steps up, so played with the jet size following advice on this forum, settled on 102.5 main jets. So started getting some miles under the belt and chasing various problems using the Factory Pro article as a guide. However had bigger issues to resolve before coming back to the carb. So finally got around to the oil consumption issue which required a top end overhaul due to glazed bores. Task completed and new air filters added as the foam ones were starting to crumble.

So current fit.

105 mains (New pods have less resistance)
#15 slow jets
All O rings have been replaced.
Carb rubbers are sound and air tight.
Valve clearances are good and well within limits.

So after a 15 mile shake down ride, carbs synced and timing checked and adjusted. Slow running was 2,500RPM, made a bit of town driving interesting!

Out for a good 50 mile test and see how she?s going. Good bit, pulls really well with 3/4+ throttle, big grins under the helmet, so I think I have the right main jet. However, there is always a however, under mid throttle cruise conditions you can hear and feel a hunting/note change from the carbs/engine which goes if you add a bit more throttle. The really big issue is when you pull up to a junction and the engine quits if you don?t blip the throttle and even then I can end up with a dead engine.

So today carbs out and a few checks.
Float height checked,24mm.
Pilot screw removed, carb cleaner squirted and reset to 7/8 turn out.
Air screws removed, carb cleaner squirted and set to an initial 3 turns out.

All reassembled and carb balancer fitted and the bike fired up and warmed up.
Timing checked and minor adjustment, carb balance.

So here come the non normal symptoms.

As the engine gets hot, when the throttle is blipped the revs hang at 3,000RPM or more before setting to about 1,500 or less. Quite often the engine would just die before I could blip the throttle or adjust the throttle adjuster. I have tried to adjust the air mixture screws however as I can not get a consistent slow idle I felt I was wasting my time. So my best guess is I have a lean issue here, if so how to progress. Do I adjust the fuel level, change the needle height or do I need to go for bigger slow running jets.

Advice and suggestions please. As always thanks in advance for your advice.

Greg
 
Idle circuits blocked
Still have points ignition?
Dying idle is often tight valves. Did you use the FSM to adjust?
 
Partial throttle cruise hunting sounds lean to me. Richen the needles one notch and see what happens. If your pilot jets are clean, then try richening them as well (turn them out 1/4 turn at a time on the pilot screw) and see how you get on.
 
With Open carbs or pods you need to fit air corrector jets to cure the low end hesitation/rough running off idle lean condition.
Click on the link below.
Once fitted put all settings , pilot jet, needle position back to stock and go up on the mains to suit your engine tune which if stock is usually just a couple of sizes up from std.
Don't muck about with bigger pilots, lifting the needles or compensating by richening on the mixture screws to fix the issue as this will only mask the lean spot and over richen everywhere else causing lower mpg and significant top end power loss.
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/254380193856?ssPageName=STRK:MESELX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1555.l2649
 
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Your air screws are out too far. :-k

The rule of thumb is "double the fuel screw setting", which would put them at 1 3/4 turns.

Personally, I would set them a bit richer at 1 1/2 turns.

.
 
Thanks Guys,

Big T,
Will check the idle circuit this weekend, should have said that it has electronic ignition and not too sure what FSM stands for however used Steve’s data sheet and a Haynes manual. Replaced 4 shims.

80GS1000. Thanks the only issue I have is due COVID and lock down I’m allowed out to play, but will explore.

Zed. Interesting, more reading.

Steve. Yes I set them that way to adjust down using the carb balancer, just never made it that far. Thanks for your many contributions to all posts. I respect them all.
 
It's very likely that the pods you're using are blocking the air intakes in the carb mouth

I don't remember if it's the Haynes, or Chilton, manual that has the incorrect valve lash method

Check the FSM, or the Basscliff page, for the correct one and compare

VM carbs should idle perfectly. Tweak that air screw in per Steve
 
One more suggestion: I highly recommend using a wideband sensor in the exhaust with an AFR gauge if you can get your hands on one. It makes the tuning process so much easier and faster as you can get a real time readout of your AFR for your current tune. I find my bike pulls like a train between about 12.8 and 13.5 AFR. I've tuned it to be on the richer side at WOT (main jet) for engine safety and a little on the leaner side on the pilots and needle for better power and fuel economy.


Q0Semyk.jpg


P14rYWP.jpg
 
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Thanks all, Big T your suggestion sounds obvious and something I hadn’t thought of, also quick and easy to check.

Cheers all and happy spannering.
 
If you have pods that are masking the air bleeds in the mouth of the carb this will cause over fueling.
Totally opposite to the symptoms you initially explained.
Regardless of any other carb issues you have you must fit air corrector jets with pods to rectify the lean off idle fueling which you describe in your first post.
 
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Thanks Zed I understand your logic and agree. Having spoken to several people on a Facebook group I have come to the same conclusion and I need to fit the correctors. As a lowly apprentice in the dark art of carburettors I appreciate all advice.

Cheers all.
 
Hi Hannibal, see post No4. The link is to a UK eBay listing, no idea if there is US stockist.
 
What is air corrector jet and where are you planning to fit them on the VM carbs?

They fit in the air bleed to the needle jet tube ( emulsion tube ) and are the only correct solution to rectifying the off idle lean condition when running pods or open carbs.
The method is exactly the same as Mikuni used for the same reason on their VM smoothbore racing carbs which are designed for running with no air box.
The jets for the VM smoothbores won't fit so the air correctors ( main air jet conversion) for stock VM's was developed in the UK and are only made in the UK but ship world wide.
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/254380193...84.m1555.l2649
 
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