Wheel Balancing: Weights or Beads?

[srsupertrap]

This weekend I installed a Avon Road Runner on my GS 17" rear wheel and found the existing wheel weights ( 1 small Suzuki clip on and a couple of those rectangular lead weights) were not heavy enough to statically balance it. The rear wheel is suspended along its axis by a metal bar supported by two saw horses and the valve stem keeps falling to the 5 o'clock position. Funny, I contacted Avon and the Tech Rep stated these tires normally don't require balancing which is why they don't have a "dot" mark?

So I was wondering if you guys would share your experiences with those tire balancing beads. Does the stuff work well, how do you actually get in the tube and where do you purchase it? Or on the other hand should I just break the bead, rotate the Avon tire 180 degrees on the rim and try conventional wheel weights again.

Last, the replacement tube came with several valve stem nuts. I kept one on the inside & outside of the rim. correct?

 

[Nessism]

I’d spin the tire; I’m not a fan of foreign material inside the tire/tube.

How much weight did you try anyway? The factory manual lists an allowance but I don’t recall what it is off the top of my head. As long as you are inside the allowance, you should be fine.

Good luck.

 

[Steve]

If you happen to loosen the tire to spin it as suggested above, try something along with that.

Go a step further and remove the tire and tube entirely. Check the balance of the wheel itself. I have seen reports from another forum that the wheel is usually the culprit, and, after balancing the wheel first, then installing the tire, additional weights were seldom required.

Personally, I don't see how the beads would work, but there are a lot of people that swear by them. In my little mind, an imbalance tends to make the wheel hop a bit. This hopping can be similar to a tire being out-of-round. In my thinking, any foreign objects (balancing beads) would be thrown to the point farthest from the pivot, which would be the heavy spot. Obviously, I am wrong in my thinking, but nobody has been able to show me where. :-k

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[bwringer]

In some quarters, doubting the Magic Powers of the Beads can spark a holy war akin to a discussion of oil or tires.

Anyway, I balance with weights because I ride a lot and change my own tires, and I don't want to deal with furshlugginger teensy beads bouncing and rolling all over my garage. I don't know or care if they work -- I just know I don't want to deal with them.

With newer Avon tires (I have experience with the RoadRiders and the Storms) I have found it to be true that the tires themselves are in perfect balance from the factory. The Avon RoadRunner is a much older design, and may not be in balance from the factory.

Once you clean and balance the bare wheel (wheels are almost always off balance), you install the tire and you're done. As long as you stick with Avons, you won't need to rebalance. Between my bikes and my friends, we've installed seven or eight sets of newer Avons (RoadRiders and Storms) and found this to be true.

Of course, this only applies to tubeless tires. Tubes, rim locks, and such introduce more variables -- I doubt there are any tubes that are in perfect balance from the factory, so you'd still need to rebalance after mounting these.

It's also worth noting that close is good enough as far as balancing motorcycle wheels. You have to be off by quite a lot and/or traveling at very high speeds to notice anything, so there are some who simply never bother with balancing.

 

[srsupertrap]

Opps: My mistake the tire is actually a AM-26 Roadrider. Must be suffering from crs . . .

I certainly didn't think of it but Steve & Bwringer you got me interested in the subject of wheel balancing. It wouldn't cost anything to remove the tire and balance the wheel by removing excess material. What's the prescribed technique? File?

Thanks everyone

 

[Mark whiz]

If you can, I Second Steve's advice..................check the balance on the wheel first. On my last tire changeout, I checked the balance on the wheel, found it's heavy spot (which WASN'T the valve stem as most think it is), mounted the light spot of the tire (marked by a dot by the factory) over the heavy spot of the wheel. I then checked the balance of the entire assembly and it was perfect without ANY weights added at all.

 

[Steve]

... Steve & Bwringer you got me interested in the subject of wheel balancing. It wouldn't cost anything to remove the tire and balance the wheel by removing excess material. What's the prescribed technique? File?

I have not seen how Brian does it, but he says that he uses weights to balance the wheel. Personally, I would not remove any material from the wheel unless it was obviously added after the manufacturing process. Feel free to remove built-up road grime, adhesive from previous stick-on weights, etc., but don't remove any metal.

Oh, and I prefer the lead weights that clip on over the center ridge on the wheel rather than the adhesive ones that go beside the ridge. They work just as well and are easier to move when necessary. I have saved several weights from previous trips to the tire shop, so I have a small collection of various weights available.

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[bwringer]

I have not seen how Brian does it, but he says that he uses weights to balance the wheel. Personally, I would not remove any material from the wheel unless it was obviously added after the manufacturing process. Feel free to remove built-up road grime, adhesive from previous stick-on weights, etc., but don't remove any metal.

Oh, and I prefer the lead weights that clip on over the center ridge on the wheel rather than the adhesive ones that go beside the ridge. They work just as well and are easier to move when necessary. I have saved several weights from previous trips to the tire shop, so I have a small collection of various weights available.

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Yes, this. Please don't file, grind, or otherwise assault your wheels.

Out of balance wheels get weights added opposite the heavy spot until they balance.

I, too, have built up a collection of clip-on weights over the years, and I usually prefer using these because they're convenient and reusable. They're also easier to use on narrow GS wheels.

However, I do have a box of the stick-on weights that I use whenever I can't find a combination of clip-on weights that works. The stick-on weights are also much easier to use on the wider wheels found on more modern bikes, since there's more flat area available.

Since we're on the subject, here's my hi-tech $0 tire balancing setup, made with salvaged rollerblade bearings and an old rusty pair of jack stands. It's very sensitive -- I can balance a tire to within 2 or 3 grams easily with this.

Just imagine the lug wrench is a wheel and axle:

 

[Dave8338]

Yes, this. Please don't file, grind, or otherwise assault your wheels.

Out of balance wheels get weights added opposite the heavy spot until they balance.

I, too, have built up a collection of clip-on weights over the years, and I usually prefer using these because they're convenient and reusable. They're also easier to use on narrow GS wheels.

However, I do have a box of the stick-on weights that I use whenever I can't find a combination of clip-on weights that works. The stick-on weights are also much easier to use on the wider wheels found on more modern bikes, since there's more flat area available.

Since we're on the subject, here's my hi-tech $0 tire balancing setup, made with salvaged rollerblade bearings and an old rusty pair of jack stands. It's very sensitive -- I can balance a tire to within 2 or 3 grams easily with this.

Just imagine the lug wrench is a wheel and axle:

I love it, Brian...though I've never seen the need to balance my lug wrenches, as some do...

Are those some angle brackets from a garrage door track? If so...I've got the required materials to make my own set. :-k

 

[mixongw]

I have been using Dynabeads in all my vehicles. My GS1100 is as smooth as silk with the beads. I did have the tires balanced when I first put the new ones on. There was a slight hint of vibration with the weights. I took off all the weights, added the beads, and all is good!

PS: As the tires wear, the balance changes. The beads compensate by rearranging themselves constantly.

 

[drhach]

Without getting too deep in to the controversy of "To bead or not to bead", Put me down as one of the converts. I'll never, ever use wheel weights again. No wheel weights on the tires, beads installed, smooth as glass up to 100+ MPH.

 

[propflux01]

I am a "beader" as well.... Smooth as Glass!

 

[Steve]

Since we're on the subject, here's my hi-tech $0 tire balancing setup, made with salvaged rollerblade bearings and an old rusty pair of jack stands. It's very sensitive -- I can balance a tire to within 2 or 3 grams easily with this.

Somewhere along the line those salvaged pieces had to cost something.
Yes, they are salvaged, but not really necessary.

Are those some angle brackets from a garrage door track? If so...I've got the required materials to make my own set. :-k

Dave, if you have a set of jackstands, you already have all the parts you need. I just use the axle that happens to come with the wheel on every bike in my garage, support each end on a jackstand and spin the wheel slowly. That way I am using the correct size axle, using the actual wheel bearings and not relying on getting four bearings to spin. No doubt it's accurate, but trying to cobble everything together seems a bit harder than simply setting the axle in the notch that already exists on the jackstand.

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[bwringer]

Somewhere along the line those salvaged pieces had to cost something.
Yes, they are salvaged, but not really necessary.



Dave, if you have a set of jackstands, you already have all the parts you need. I just use the axle that happens to come with the wheel on every bike in my garage, support each end on a jackstand and spin the wheel slowly. That way I am using the correct size axle, using the actual wheel bearings and not relying on getting four bearings to spin. No doubt it's accurate, but trying to cobble everything together seems a bit harder than simply setting the axle in the notch that already exists on the jackstand.

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Those are indeed leftover garage door brackets with the centers cut out.

Anyway, the four skate bearings actually turn far, far more easily than the wheel bearings, which is the whole point of the balancing stand setup. They're shielded, not sealed (no seal drag) and lubricated with light oil instead of grease.

You place axle through the wheel, then place the ends of the axles on top of the skate bearings. Usually, the axle turns in the skate bearings. The whole thing is very sensitive.



For those who have gotten the Dynabead religion, how big a pain in the butt are they to deal with when you change tires?

 

[rudy]

For those who have gotten the Dynabead religion, how big a pain in the butt are they to deal with when you change tires?

I don't use them..... yet. I would imagine that if you are using a tube in your wheel, the beads would just stay in the tube when changing the tire. Could easily pour them out into a little bucket if you're just gonna throw the old tube away and get a new one. Just cut a hole in the old tube and pour away.

As for tubeless...... um, I don't know if that would be my first choice, though I think I'm gonna get some for my car wheels as all the shops around here are all incompetent when it comes to actually balancing my car wheels. Brand new tires and rims, still shake. I've given up on them.

I guess if you know that the beads are in there, you could break the bead and reach in and scoop most/all of them out. Depends how thrifty you are and if you have more of them on hand to put back in I guess.

I know that I want to try them anyway. Weights on polished alloy spokies aren't my favourite thing.

 

[Nessism]

Changed the front tire on my 750ES tonight and just for kicks I balanced the wheel alone first - took 80 fUk'n grams! Wheel spins smooth as silk with no apparent runout or wobble so I think this particular wheel is just a POS. Installed the Avon Roadrider and it took no additional weight. Good tire and crappy wheel.

 

[Steve]

I think that balancing the wheel without the tire is definitely the way to go. If you hadn't done that first, you might have broken the tire down, rotated it a bit and tried again. And again, and again, and never gotten it to balance with less than 80g. By doing the wheel first, you at least know whether it's the wheel or the tire.

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[Nessism]

I think that balancing the wheel without the tire is definitely the way to go. If you hadn't done that first, you might have broken the tire down, rotated it a bit and tried again. And again, and again, and never gotten it to balance with less than 80g. By doing the wheel first, you at least know whether it's the wheel or the tire.

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True that!

Do you think 80 grams is too much weight?

 

[Steve]

That's just over 2 1/2 ounces. Seems high, but if that's what it takes, ... :-k


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[drhach]

For those who have gotten the Dynabead religion, how big a pain in the butt are they to deal with when you change tires?

I've changed tires on tubed tires with beads and it's nothing. I haven't had to do my tubeless tires yet. I don't see the big deal though. It seems like it would be easier than making a homemade tire balancer.