Wont start, has spark, getting fuel ???

[CycloneGS]

So a month or so ago my bike was running not perfect and I kinda ignored it. Then my blinkers stopped working, then my tail light stopped and the head light too. I had to recharge my battery 2x this summer. It was tough to start sometimes and then one day I ran it out of gas one block from home. I filled it up but not all the way, and it wont start. (As I write this I wanna go get gas but let me finish...) Anyways, I then left town for a long time and just got back to figuring out the problem. heres where im at:

I reset my timing, which was off. And inspected the spark generator mechanism. All looked fine.

I pulled plugs and grounded them on the engine one at a time to check for spark and its there when I push the start button.

Cleaned out the carbs thinking I could have sucked some crud from the tank in there from sucking out the last drop of gas.

I buttoned it all back up and still no cumbustion! Is my strator screwed?

Im off to get some fuel.

 

[cowboyup3371]

How well did you clean the carbs - full strip and dip?

 

[CycloneGS]

How well did you clean the carbs - full strip and dip?

Yes. I didnt do the o-rings because I did them last year.

Filled to the top with fuel and no fire. I will look into it more later this weekend when I have some time. First round of exams on Friday...

So no one seems to think its stator? Could a stator prevent it from starting?

 

[cowboyup3371]

The stator comes into play AFTER it starts but if it's bad it will cause your battery to not maintain its charge

 

[CycloneGS]

The stator comes into play AFTER it starts but if it's bad it will cause your battery to not maintain its charge

good to know it wont prevent it from starting.

After trying to start it for a while the plugs diddnt have any fuel on them... So I guess it is a fuel issue. I may have a stator problem any ways considering my blinkers, then my tail light and my extremely dim headlight. Whatever causes this has something to do with charging because my battery wont stay charged and it was new.

 

[Thumper88]

Check the compression.

 

[CycloneGS]

Check the compression.

Really? I would have never gone there. I dont have a tool and I dont want to spend $55 on one. Is that the only way to check it?

 

[Thumper88]

When you reset the timing, are you referring to ignition timing or valve timing (chain)?
If you're off by one tooth it can make a considerable difference in compression. If you don't have compression, it won't pull air/gas through the carbs.
Have you checked the clearance on the valves recently? If a valve has no clearance, it will be slightly open all the time...
Easiest way to check all of this is with a compression gauge. I believe you can borrow one from an auto parts store. You pay for the tool, then when you're done--bring it back and get all your money back.

 

[CycloneGS]

When you reset the timing, are you referring to ignition timing or valve timing (chain)?

Ignition timing. I have not torn into the engine to look at the valves, it seems difficult.

I guess I will borrow a tool from the autostore.

 

[cableguy]

Sounds like you have 2 things going on, and it doesn't seem likely that they are related since electrical issues have no bearing on whether or not fuel is getting to the plugs.
Electrical: have you tested your r/r and stator?
Fuel: is your vacuum line from the petcock good?

 

[stucknarut]

You can get a compression tester from Harbor Freight for a lot less than $55. Or tool rental from Autozone works too.

When you put your carbs back in did you hook up the vacuum line from the petcock, or plug the line if running without the tank? Does it start with starter fluid?

On the electrical, check the simple stuff first. I'd check your battery ground and wire connections before I spent money on new parts. A bad ground could cause those symptoms.

 

[CycloneGS]

When you put your carbs back in did you hook up the vacuum line from the petcock, or plug the line if running without the tank? Does it start with starter fluid?

vacuum line hooked up. Never tried the starter fluid, where do I spray that?

On the electrical, check the simple stuff first. I'd check your battery ground and wire connections before I spent money on new parts. A bad ground could cause those symptoms.

My bat ground wire is in perfect shape and grounds on a frame tab that was previously used to hold the bracket for the tool kit. It was scraped to bare metal. My turn signals and R/R also ground here.
Everyone always says check your grounds but other than rusty or loose connections, how would you know if your ground is no good? All else being equal, is one location better than others?

 

[koolaid_kid]

You spray one or two shots into the air filter. Be cautious with it.
Just use your multimeter set to the buzzer. Touch the two leads together to make sure you hear the buzzer first. Just go from each connection to the battery negative post. Always best to go to the farthest part and move inward.

 

[CycloneGS]

Havent gone to get a compression tool or starter fluid yet.

The petcock is fine. With a tank full of gas I can apply suction to the vacuum line and it spits gas. Float bowls fill up with gas when I crank it too.

However, after cranking the starter for a bit, the plugs arent wet. Makes me think its not getting fuel through the carb so I will clean them all out again. Im pretty quick now and there are only 2!

 

[daspirate]

How are your valve clearances? My 450 started getting hard to start before not starting at all when my clearances got too tight (couldn't fit my smallest feeler gage between the cam and shim).

 

[CycloneGS]

Ok guys, thanks for the help thus far.

I tore the carbs apart, dipped, compressed air, the whole bit. I even replaced the fuel and vacuum lines and one of the bolts to choke linkage while i was in there. Hooked everything back up including the airbox line to the top of the engine (dont know what thats called). And it wouldnt start.

So, I sprayed a little starter fluid in the air cleaner and tried again, and it popped right off! After dialing in the idle a bit, I grabbed the seat off my work bench and put it on. Tank was till loose, no side covers, and battery just sitting in there... Anywho, I took it for a lap around the block and it ran just fine. but still no tail lights, or turn signals, and my headlight was dim.

Seems like i have an electrical problem still. The grounds are all good and clean with new wires. Factory R/R still but its grounded directly to battery. Stator was unable to be tested since I couldnt get it running.

My question is, why does it start on starting fluid?

 

[CycloneGS]

How are your valve clearances? My 450 started getting hard to start before not starting at all when my clearances got too tight (couldn't fit my smallest feeler gage between the cam and shim).

Slap my wrists for not checking the valve clearances yet, I know its recommemded. I will do this next.

Should I still check the compression? I spent $30 on a tool and I dont want to open it if I don't have to.

 

[Guest]

Missed this one completely... did you prime the carbs at all? There's a little brass slot headed screw on the fuel tap. Undo that half a turn for 30 seconds or so to prime it.

Still do your compression test.

I see you have a MAC 2 into 1... do you know if you need to re-jet for that or if it's supposed to be a stock replacement?

 

[CycloneGS]

Missed this one completely... did you prime the carbs at all? There's a little brass slot headed screw on the fuel tap. Undo that half a turn for 30 seconds or so to prime it.

I dont have a prime setting, just RES and ON. I couldnt find they screw you talked about, is it on the fuel petcock? I have started it up about 5x now with no problems. I even bolted the tanks back on and affixed the side covers and took it for another ride

I see you have a MAC 2 into 1... do you know if you need to re-jet for that or if it's supposed to be a stock replacement?

Stock replacement.

I guess I have to do a compression check...

 

[Guest]

Good stuff, glad she's starting now

The screw is on the petcock (I call it a fuel tap... a petcock for me is a friendly rooster).

Here's a shot of my brand new one just after I installed it:

You can see the brass slot head there below and to the right of the tap.

The compression test is more for your peace of mind to know your rings are sealing well, head gasket is sealing well, and your valves are adjusted correctly.