Yet another tire thread

[Nessism]

Most people here have been exchanging information with each other for quite a long time but as you've probably already guessed, I'm one of those people who always questions "common knowledge". I find that it's become far too easy these days to echo & thereby amplify misinformation.

Welcome to the GSR. I'll be sure to NOT respond in any of your threads. Don't want to spread any "misinformation."

 

[CC2099]

Welcome to the GSR. I'll be sure to NOT respond in any of your threads. Don't want to spread any "misinformation."

If you have an opinion on the discussion that has been taking place here, you should have stated your opinion and supported your position (if that's possible) rather than being rude. "To measure is to know" - that's interesting. Are you living up to your slogan?.. I'm not sure if you've read any of the previous posts where I specifically asked if anyone measured the original 4.5-17 tire.

I don't know what you took offense to in my post but I wasn't accusing anyone of spreading misinformation - all I was saying was this happens all the time and people don't even realise they're taking part in the echoing and amplification of incorrect information because they just accept what someone else said as the truth without question. Truth is supported by facts, not hearsay nor speculation. If you have some facts to share, I'm all ears.

 

[Nessism]

I seriously doubt anyone measured one of the original tires since they are 35 years old at this point and 99% of the bikes still surviving don't have the original rubber anymore. It doesn't matter anyway. The 100/130 tire sizes are PROVEN by hundreds of GSR members here. That's all most of us need to know. Since you have all of 8 posts right now it begs the question of why you did you join here anyway? If common truths that the folks here follow need to be proven to you why even waste the time of joining?

 

[CC2099]

I certainly didn't join to start a flame war if that's what you're wondering. I joined in order to ask questions. I was hoping for answers to be supported by facts. Just because hundreds decide to jump off a cliff doesn't mean everyone else should follow. People used to believe all manner of things. I'm sure that if you went back to the days when people used to believe that the Earth was flat, everyone you met would give you the same answer when asked about the shape of the Earth. Thanks for your OPINION on tire size.

 

[Guest]

I was hoping for answers to be supported by facts. Just because hundreds decide to jump off a cliff doesn't mean everyone else should follow.

No, it means that many hundreds of riders have tried the combinations mentioned and not found them wanting.


Mark

 

[GSJim]

I had a Metzeler ME99 120/90-17 on the back of my GS650G for a few weeks. It felt good but I didn't get a chance to give it a good run because it was destroyed by a handful of sheet metal screws two weeks after it was installed. The dealer had a 130/90-17 in stock and I have been using that size ever since.

Jim

 

[Nessism]

Hey CC2099, I've got an idea for you: how about starting a thread about the best oil for a GS! That topic is always fun.

 

[bwringer]

I certainly didn't join to start a flame war if that's what you're wondering. I joined in order to ask questions. I was hoping for answers to be supported by facts. Just because hundreds decide to jump off a cliff doesn't mean everyone else should follow. People used to believe all manner of things. I'm sure that if you went back to the days when people used to believe that the Earth was flat, everyone you met would give you the same answer when asked about the shape of the Earth. Thanks for your OPINION on tire size.

The solution to your curiosity and skepticism is obvious: advance the cause of Science yourself. "Science" is why my GS850G is currently wearing a set of Shinko 712s, in fact -- I wanted to push their limits and see how well they worked for myself. (Pretty darn well so far, although I doubt they'll make 3,000 miles.) I did the same with a set of Shinko 230s a while back.

Since 120/90-17 is now available in the Bridgestone BT45 and the Avon AM26 RoadRider, then you should buy new rear tires in both sizes and a front tire in 100/90-19, take them to a track day or to the mountains for THOROUGH knee-out, no-chicken-strips flogging, change the tires halfway through, and report back.

If you're not willing to do that (or send me a few free tires to test... :twistedevil: ), then we're left with relying on the experience of hundreds of other riders.

 

[bwringer]

I had a Metzeler ME99 120/90-17 on the back of my GS650G for a few weeks. It felt good but I didn't get a chance to give it a good run because it was destroyed by a handful of sheet metal screws two weeks after it was installed. The dealer had a 130/90-17 in stock and I have been using that size ever since.

Jim

The ME99 is long gone, and Metzeler does not currently make a rear tire in 120/90-17.

Although in the case of your 650G, the original rear tire was 4.25-17 (not the 4.5-17 found on the larger shafties) so there's less gray area -- 120/90-17 would be more correct than 130/90-17, and some charts suggest 110/90-17 would be the closest match, although this is not a size that exists anywhere.

 

[CC2099]

The solution to your curiosity and skepticism is obvious: advance the cause of Science yourself. "Science" is why my GS850G is currently wearing a set of Shinko 712s, in fact -- I wanted to push their limits and see how well they worked for myself. (Pretty darn well so far, although I doubt they'll make 3,000 miles.) I did the same with a set of Shinko 230s a while back.

Since 120/90-17 is now available in the Bridgestone BT45 and the Avon AM26 RoadRider, then you should buy new rear tires in both sizes and a front tire in 100/90-19, take them to a track day or to the mountains for THOROUGH knee-out, no-chicken-strips flogging, change the tires halfway through, and report back.

If you're not willing to do that (or send me a few free tires to test... :twistedevil: ), then we're left with relying on the experience of hundreds of other riders.

Yes, I am interested in doing a test. I don't want to waste money buying 2 different sets of tires but.. if I could find another GS850G rider nearby with the 100/130 front/back setup, it would be great to swap and go for a ride on each other's bike. We could both then report back with our subjective experiences.

 

[CC2099]

Hey CC2099, I've got an idea for you: how about starting a thread about the best oil for a GS! That topic is always fun.

No, I was thinking about starting a thread on Premium vs Regular because that's probably more fun.

 

[Brendan W]

Taking a look at the manual the majority of these bikes came with 3.50H19 and 4.50H17.
Exceptions were later L models, GLZ and GLD which had 100/90/19 and 130/90/16.
I'm not sure how to compare width measurement in the different systems but I find this in the article linked below
Am I the only one who finds it interesting that a 100-series tire can really be anything from 3.9" to 4.2"? And a 110-series can end up being the same width as a 100? http://www.webbikeworld.com/Motorcycle-tires/sizes.htm

 

[CC2099]

Taking a look at the manual the majority of these bikes came with 3.50H19 and 4.50H17.
Exceptions were later L models, GLZ and GLD which had 100/90/19 and 130/90/16.
I'm not sure how to compare width measurement in the different systems but I find this in the article linked below
Am I the only one who finds it interesting that a 100-series tire can really be anything from 3.9" to 4.2"? And a 110-series can end up being the same width as a 100? http://www.webbikeworld.com/Motorcycle-tires/sizes.htm

I hadn't considered the possibility that tire widths could be so variable. Thanks for sharing this article.

 

[Wingsconsin]

Michelin Commander II - Longevity - Decent Stick - Not cheap -
Left off this list for some reason - but I run them on my GS850GL and like them..
Dual compound and the rear is a little 'flat' in profile as they are made for the HD Heavy Cruisers
But I nearly always ride 2 up (due to my larger than average size & weight) even when I am alone so a heavy duty tire appeals to me.

 

[salty_monk]

< klrmode="on" >



Lately I've been buying all my tires (sorry, "tyres") from Rocky Mountain/Jake Wilson (they're the same company). Their prices are under or within a dollar or two of the prices at American Moto Tire ("American" is right there in the name, so I guess they have to spell it "tire"). But the main reason is that they have a 5% rewards program, so I at least get some benefit from the vast sums I spend on rubber.

Anyhoooo... I've been through two sets of Metzeler Karoo 3 on my KLR, and they've been fantastic. Very aggressive tread that seems to work well off-road, and they stick wonderfully well on pavement, even in the wet. Reasonably priced (currently $158) a set, and pretty good life for a tire this aggressive (although not nearly as long as the Heidenaus). They even handle quite well when they're nearly worn out, which is unusual for knobby tires. They're noisy (some people care; I don't) and like any knobby there's a noticeable bit of rolling resistance.

The Heidenau K60 lasts a long time and works well off pavement, but from what I've observed and heard, they're a bit slippery on pavement and scary in the wet; the rubber is a bit too hard.

It's just about new tire time for my KLR as well, and I've been thinking about trying a set of the Shinko 804/805 knobbies in the name of Science. The online feedback is very good, and pricing is similar, perhaps a bit less. ($156/set right now, although the rear is backordered.)

The Shinko 244 works quite well and at $94 a set, they're the undisputed bargain leader for the KLR.

Michelin stopped making my favorite "pure" knobby, the T63. These were phenomenal, but wore out quickly. They're trying to get people to use the new Anakee Wild which just happens to cost about $70 more a set.

</ klrmode="off">

OK, hijack over -- back to your regularly scheduled GS programming...

Thanks Brian - I've not had a bad experience with the K60's although I obviously don't get much of the wet stuff round here... I can drag pegs with them on the street easy enough. I wonder if some of the comments relate to the continuous centre strip on the larger sizes...

Maybe I'll give the Karoo's a go or failing that the Shinko's. I probably could even go back to an 80-20 or 90-10 tyre but I like to kid myself that I'll get back offroad again soon...!

 

[salty_monk]

I hadn't considered the possibility that tire widths could be so variable. Thanks for sharing this article.

I've measured a few different tyres as I've fitted them out of interest. They are rarely "as quoted" but the width also depends on the rim that they're fitted on.

The profiles are usually quite different between them too which also affects the steering.

The modern KLR is a 2.5" rim rear and comes with a 130 stock if that helps at all.

I've ridden a 110/90/19 on a GS1000 but I used a wider rim from an 82 GS650G (2.15") to do so. It handled fine (with a matching 130 rear). There wasn't massive difference between those & the Roadriders I took off as far as the feel, steering etc. I could scrape pegs with either. These were Shinko 705's. I did a 2500 mile trip (mostly onroad with a handful of dirt trails) down through Baja with them.

(Oh and I'm yet to meet someone who's done more varied tyre testing than Bwringer - he's a big guy & rides hard plus he rides A LOT. His tyre life to mine tends to be way shorter like 60% or so of what I get on the same tyre, similar bike)

 

[GSJim]

The ME99 is long gone, and Metzeler does not currently make a rear tire in 120/90-17.

Although in the case of your 650G, the original rear tire was 4.25-17 (not the 4.5-17 found on the larger shafties) so there's less gray area -- 120/90-17 would be more correct than 130/90-17, and some charts suggest 110/90-17 would be the closest match, although this is not a size that exists anywhere.

That was my understanding also. I think I bought the only 120/90-17 in Toronto at the time (1988?). Even then it wasn't a common size.

Jim

 

[Rijko]

very interesting thread, i never converted the sizes.
So i have been using wider tires all these years than the GS1000 came with from the factory (....)
I will try one size down next time.

120/90-17 and 110/90-17 are on the market, the BT45 for instance ?
This site offers a nice listing by size : https://www.oponeo.co.uk/moto-tyre-finder

 

[bwringer]

very interesting thread, i never converted the sizes.
So i have been using wider tires all these years than the GS1000 came with from the factory (....)
I will try one size down next time.

120/90-17 and 110/90-17 are on the market, the BT45 for instance ?
This site offers a nice listing by size : https://www.oponeo.co.uk/moto-tyre-finder

The only rear street tire on that site shown available in 110/90-17 is the BT45. I can't find it in the US, and it's not shown on Bridgestone's web site, although there is a front BT-45 in that size. I'm wondering how accurate that site is; they might have mixed up the front and rear.
http://www.bridgestone.com/products/motorcycle_tires/products/detail/pr014/

You'll also notice that Bridgestone lists the appropriate rim widths for a 130/90-17 as 2.5 to 3.5 inches.

There are quite a few 120/90-17 front tires available, but only a few choices in rear tires.


American Moto Tire has a nice "find by size" feature, although you have to filter out the dirtbike and front tires yourself:
http://www.americanmototire.com/catalog/

Tires Unlimited is a good source for oddball tires, although they don't have a size search.
http://tiresunlimited.com


So far, the only 4.50X17 tires I've found are vintage reproductions of tires from the '40s:
https://www.cokertire.com/tires/styles/motorcycle-bike/firestone-cycle-ans.html

 

[Rijko]

The only rear street tire on that site shown available in 110/90-17 is the BT45. I can't find it in the US, and it's not shown on Bridgestone's web site, although there is a front BT-45 in that size. I'm wondering how accurate that site is; they might have mixed up the front and rear.
http://www.bridgestone.com/products/motorcycle_tires/products/detail/pr014/

Can't find it on the Bridgestone site either, not even in the archive section.
Which states info will be available as long as the tires are, so i guess this tire is a goner.
Still for sale on some sites but i now wonder about the age of those tires.

You'll also notice that Bridgestone lists the appropriate rim widths for a 130/90-17 as 2.5 to 3.5 inches.

There are quite a few 120/90-17 front tires available, but only a few choices in rear tires.

So far, the only 4.50X17 tires I've found are vintage reproductions of tires from the '40s:
https://www.cokertire.com/tires/styles/motorcycle-bike/firestone-cycle-ans.html

Point taken .. unfortunate for us GS fans.