1980 GS1000G - Smoke at start-up - should I buy?

[Guest]

Hello,

I have an opportunity to buy a 1980 GS1000G with about 47,000 miles for $1,500. From the pictures and a longer talk with the owner over the phone it looks and sounds like the bike has been maintained very well and is in good condition.

When I asked the owner if there are any flaws he said that it would smoke at start-up as the valve guides would have dried out. The warm bike would not smoke. He said the valve guides would be made of rubber. Does this make sense? Should I walk away?

Thank you!

 

[fastbysuzuki]

If the bike has been well maintained it should not be smoking. Certainly the valve guides are not made of rubber, the valve stem seals however are some kind of rubber mix. I guess the only way is to go and see it running from cold and note what colour the smoke is and make your desision from there. Better if you can take someone that is knowledgeable with you to view it.

 

[Guest]

Thank you. If the bike only smokes at start-up, could I simply ignore it or do leaky valve stem seals have to be addressed?

 

[Redman]

MMC, Welcome to TheGSR.

Smoking on startup. I would think that is assuming if it has sat for a few days.
Is not too bad of a problem, Yah, you could live with it, depending on how bad it is. If it is clouds and clouds and clouds and chokes anybody nearby, well, that would be annoying, and then might also burn a bit of oil while running such that need to check oil level often. If it is just some puffs for a couple seconds, that is not so bad.

You might notice is better or worse if had been on sidestand or on centerstand. And, even if not too bad, you will want to take care of it at some point before it does get too bad, maybe in a couple years maybe longer.

A lot of folks really like the 1000s. About as much power as 1100 but not much bigger than 750s.

In my opinion, will need to be in real good condition for that price. If a little puff on start up, that would not scare me off.

If the puff on startup is not too bad, I would take that as a good sign that the seller is a good guy that he told you about it.

.

 

[Nessism]

Sounds like valve guide seals are shot. I'd pass unless you know your way around inside an engine and like projects.

 

[Steve]

Sounds like valve guide seals are shot. I'd pass unless you know your way around inside an engine and like projects.

Agreed and agreed.

The good news is that the seals themselves are not all that expensive. OEM seals are about $5.50 each (you need 8), but aftermarket units on eBay can be had for about $12 (plus shipping) for the full set.

The bad news is that you need to disassemble the engine to change the valve seals. A full gasket set (which will include the valve seals) can easily approach $200. Not sure that a full set is still available from Suzuki, you might have to assemble the kit yourself.

Add the cost of the gasket set to the challenge of 8-12 hours of working on your engine (and anything else that pops up along the way), it's not a cheap adventure.

As others have mentioned, for $1500 and that smoking problem, the cosmetics would have to be near-perfect to compensate.

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[Rob S.]

Got to agree with that. When I spoke on the phone with the seller, I told him the engine must be cold to the touch, or we do it another day.

 

[LAB3]

If you pull the plugs that should give you an idea how much oil is making it past the seals, rings etc. If they look normal or close to it and oil consumption is within reason then you should be good for awhile.

 

[salty_monk]

I thought I'd seen a way to replace stem seals with the engine intact, just the valve cover & cams removed... something like stuffing rope into the cylinder to hold the valve up?? I may be talking rubbish but I'm sure I've seen that somewhere.

All of these bikes smoke a little bit after that sort of mileage & use a dash of oil. You'll find it will go plenty of more miles though.

 

[Nessism]

A couple of members changed the seals without pulling the head and posted some photos showing the process. It took some real ingenuity and a good bit of work, but it is possible.

Edit:
https://www.thegsresources.com/_for...als-without-removing-the-engine-from-the-bike

https://www.thegsresources.com/_forum/showthread.php?244545-Valve-seal-replacement



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[Guest]

Thank you for the welcome and the helpful responses!

I am torn whether I should look at the bike. It is about a 1 hour drive. The bike looks very clean in the pictures. It has a fairing but it comes with the original headlight and turn signals.

Also comes with the original seat which was taken off and replaced with a custom seat when the bike was purchased.

 

[Steve]

I thought I'd seen a way to replace stem seals with the engine intact, just the valve cover & cams removed... something like stuffing rope into the cylinder to hold the valve up?? I may be talking rubbish but I'm sure I've seen that somewhere.

Yes, it's likely possible, but the trick would be to find a way to anchor a lever so you can push down on the valve spring(s) to remove and install the keepers.

.

 

[Guest]

Another picture

 

[wymple]

When the bike sits, oil up top will bleed past the seals/guides into the cylinders. Very small amount. It burns off rather quickly on startup. If it doesn't smoke warmed up, and doesn't smoke for long when it does, I wouldn't sweat it. My 850 has been that way for years. It doesn't even show up on the oil level. I'd only concern myself with the compression readings.

 

[Guest]

When the bike sits, oil up top will bleed past the seals/guides into the cylinders. Very small amount. It burns off rather quickly on startup. If it doesn't smoke warmed up, and doesn't smoke for long when it does, I wouldn't sweat it. My 850 has been that way for years. It doesn't even show up on the oil level. I'd only concern myself with the compression readings.

Why does this only happen when the bike sits?

 

[Redman]

Why does this only happen when the bike sits?

Gravity.
Remaining oil in top of head, sitting over the valve seals, leaks down thru the valve seal.
If sat for 10 days will be more than if sat for only one day. May be only a very little smoke after one day, but a bit more if sat 10 days, and a bit more if sat for 20 days.

Also keep in mind that a couple drops of oil can make a bunch of smoke.


About your original question about how concerned to be about a bit of smoking on start up:
SOme folks here might tell you to completely discount my appraisal, since they have known my bike to smoke a little bit after sitting overnight (as they have seen at rally, havent seen after sits for multiple days) and have seen my bike blow a bit of smoke on decell (another sign of valve seals) and on accell (sign of rings) -- year after year. And they have seen me add oil after a day of riding.

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[Guest]

It does look like a very well maintained bike, the engine looks spotless. If it is the valve seals I wouldn't worry about it and if you plan or riding it daily, you will not have a problem. I'd say if it will sit for a week or more it may smoke again.

As far as changing the seals with the head on. Theoretically it could be done by placing each cylinder(one at a time) at TDC and either pressurize it with air with a leakdown tester hose screwed in the spark plug hole as long as the rings and valves seal up well or fill the cylinder with oil and screw a spark plug back in to keep the oil in the combustion chamber. Either way should hold the valves in their seats, but the oil would be better in my opinion since the fluid would be hard to compress. It will make a bit of a mess when you turn over the engine to squirt out the excess fluid when your done and it will smoke quite a bit for a few minutes when you done.

The keepers can be removed by striking the top of the spring with a hammer and a deep well socked of similar size as the valve spring. I've done this many times with the head off and a balled up rag under the valves. They can be reinserted with the socket by placing the keeper on top of the retainer in position and pressing down with the socket. It does take quite a bit of effort, but it can be done.

Again I've done this with the head off. I should mention that if your not used to wrenching, it might not be something to try yourself.

Another thing to note is if these are the original valve seals they will be a bear to remove. We had a former member Eric made a video of an easy way to do it by torching the old seals and pulling them out with a pair of needle nose pliers.

Video of how to remove and install the keepers.

Here is a video of someone using a rope in the cylinder as was mentioned by Steve, I think.

 

[Admiral Beez]

Has he seen the bike yet? I would not discount a look based on the owner's phone call. Maybe he's set up the bike wrong, who knows. My GS650G smokes a little on start up and my mechanic said just leave it, it's not burning a noticable amount of oil, the plugs are clean. I paid CAD $900 (US$750) for the bike and will ride it until it breaks.

 

[Guest]

I have not seen the bike yet, still debating if I should pursue this and do the 2-hour round trip to take a look at it.

I asked the owner how much the bike smokes and he responded "quite a bit but within a couple of minutes it stops. Does not smoke while riding." "Quite a bit" and "a couple of minutes" sounds pretty extreme, I think I should pass.

Thanks again for all your input!

 

[Nessism]

I agree with passing. Old bikes are best left for those that enjoy wrenching and have experience doing so.