Armor All on rubber carb parts?

[matt_gs450]

Hi All,

I'm progressing with my GS 450 T project. Latest was that I have the carbs off and partway disassembled. None of the O-rings or diaphragms look damaged or cracked. I would like to clean them somehow though. "Dan's Motorcycle" course (http://www.dansmc.com) suggests cleaning the rubber parts (soaking them) in Armor All.

I'm going to go buy Armor All now, as well as a snap-ring pliers to disassemble the slide/needle jet assembly. I'll wait for a response though, before I actually touch rubber to Armor All.

I'm taking pictures and video of the project which I will post soon.

Thanks in advance,
Matt

 

[Dink]

To clean wash in soapy water, to preserve and protect, rub rubber grease into them!
Arour-all speeds up the breakdown of rubber over time, from experience.

Dink

 

[Cyg]

I like dan and he does have good ideas. but as much as I love armorall it does break it down faster. I would not opted it for on carb insides. carb itakes yes and boots.

 

[REDDY]

Correct ! Armor all will attact most man-made item. In the 80's the ultralight a/c people found the seams in their fabric started coming apart from using armor all.

 

[bwringer]

To clean wash in soapy water, to preserve and protect, rub rubber grease into them!
Arour-all speeds up the breakdown of rubber over time, from experience.

Dink

Agreed, Armor-All is not good for rubber. Washing with dish soap and water is safe.

But what the heck is "rubber grease"? Can you provide a translation from "Strine" to "Merkin", please?

Transmission fluid is safe on parts meant to stand up to oil and/or gasoline, and it's cheap.

To ease installing o-rings and the like, silicone spray is safe and effective.

 

[Dink]

Rubber Grease is the grease you use on rubber bushes etc!!! Castrol makes and sells it.

Dink

 

[Boondocks]

Armor All Protectant will not harm rubber. It is specifically formulated to protect, clean and shine rubber surfaces. It contains water-based silicone emulsions, surfactants, ultraviolet light inhibitors and a fragrance.

 

[UncleMike]

For $12 from Robert Barr, I'd much rather just get new o-rings and be sure.

 

[J_C]

For $12 from Robert Barr, I'd much rather just get new o-rings and be sure.

Agreed on this one!

 

[Hap Call]

Armor All Protectant will not harm rubber. It is specifically formulated to protect, clean and shine rubber surfaces. It contains water-based silicone emulsions, surfactants, ultraviolet light inhibitors and a fragrance.

I strongly disagree. I found out the hard way on this one. In the late 70's I was riding/racing a Penton 125. I used Armor-All on the seat having believed their advertising department when they called it a rubber and vinyl "protectant". It looked great right after I smeared it on. Wait about two days and it looked dry again. Smear it on again...you get the picture. After a while, I noted that the seat cover was starting to deteriorate. It was about a month later that I read an article in Consumer Reports where they tested Armor-All against STP's Son-Of-a-Gun in a lab. They showed that Armor-All was not just a poor protectant but actually accelerated the breakdown of the vinyl and rubber. Son Of a Gun did work and passed with flying colors.

Unless they changed their formula, I would advise against using Armor-All.

Hap



Hap

 

[MissFabulous]

FWIW, I took a chemistry class in college from a professor who worked for the Armor All company in years past. He told us that Armor All is great for oxidized semi-hard plastics, and said it actually puts back some of the chemicals that leech out from sun and exposure, but that chemistry is not the same as rubber or some pliable plastics.

I'd listen to these guys - there are likely plenty of rubber-safe products out there, but Armor All isn't likely one of them... save it for the dash of your car, and not much else! It ate through the coating on my stereo housing in my Jeep, too!

 

[Boondocks]

The formulation for Armor All has been changed. There were problems many years ago with the original Armor All that was solvent based. The latest formulation is water based.

For an expert evaluation of Armor All, see Bud Abraham's comments at Removing Armor All. To quote his comments:

As a chemical supplier and formulator of products I must disagree with what has been said about ArmorAll.

There was a time, many years ago when ArmorAll first came out that there were some problems with it. But that was long, long ago.

Today, according to my chemists and my own experience, ArmorAll is one of the BEST water-based dressings (protectant) on the market.

As you may know dressings (protectants) start with either:

1. A water-based silicone emulsion or,
2. A solvent silicone

The water based silicone emulsions are then simply mixed with water, about 70% water and 30% silicone. The good companies, like ArmorAll also put in anti-static agents to reduce attraction of dust and UV blockers to protect the vinyl/rubber/leather, among other things in the formula.

Some companies will tint the normally white milky looking product either blue or red.

Some even put in gelling agents to make the product a gel.

These are strictly marketing gimmicks.

The solvent based silicones are mixed with a quick drying solvent such as mineral spirits to provide a solvent-based dressing which is clear or again, tinted blue for appeal.

The solvent dressings are the "KISS OF DEATH" for a car. Why?

1. Solvent on interiors is too slick and shiny
2. On an engine the solvent could create a flash fire (low flash point)
3. On an engine will breakdown and expand rubber hoses and belts
4. On tires will breakdown rubber on tires and when the dressing mixes
with the carbon black in tires it forms a liquid that will stain the painted
plastic parts of light colored cars, irreparably.

So, in conclusion use only a high quality water based dressings, and ArmorAll is a great product, formulated with the highest integrity with the most secondary ingredients.

Ask your supplier if they even know what secondary ingredients are in their product. Don't if they have such and such in the formula, they will say yes. Simply ask them what else beside silicone is in the product.

As for Armorall being greasy I do not know why that would be the case with Armorall and not other water based dressings. They all use the same silicone emulsions and then mix with water and secondary ingredients.

Some water-based dressings have less water and thereby leave a very high shine. Some have less water and leave a "satin-finish" for interiors.

What I have found is that we formulate our LustreAll with less water and it leaves a high shine. Used on interiors we put it on with an application pad and then wipe it off with a towel to leave a nice satin finish.

On tires and engines we spray it on the engine and leave it dry to a high shine. On tires we use either a 2.5 gal; 3.0gal or 5gal stainless steel tank sprayer with a Dress Pro Spray Brush Applicator that puts the dressing only on the tires through a spray nozzle in the brush and spread it simultaneously with the brush. This avoids overspray but allows the product to be liberally applied for maximum shine. You loose shine when applying by sponge and then wiping off.

Again, trying to provide you with chemical facts, not fiction or opinion. Take what you like and leave the rest, but no personal attacks if you disagree with me.

 

[matt_gs450]

To summarize:

To summarize:

So there is some disagreement as to whether Armor All is OK for carb rubber. In the carb rebuild pages on this site, the author says to use a non-water-based rubber preserver. Apparently Armor All is water based. I'm inclined to stay away from Armor All due to the confusion. I will replace the o-rings. The only rubber part I can't replace is the diaphragm.

I will:

• Wash the carb diaphragm with warm, soapy water
• Dip in transmission fluid and dab any extra away
• re-assemble

This "rubber grease" sounds intriguing but I'm not sure where I can find it. Dink, can you give any more info?

Thanks all,
Matt

 

[Boondocks]

So there is some disagreement as to whether Armor All is OK for carb rubber. In the carb rebuild pages on this site, the author says to use a non-water-based rubber preserver. Apparently Armor All is water based. I'm inclined to stay away from Armor All due to the confusion. I will replace the o-rings. The only rubber part I can't replace is the diaphragm.

I will:

• Wash the carb diaphragm with warm, soapy water
• Dip in transmission fluid and dab any extra away
• re-assemble

This "rubber grease" sounds intriguing but I'm not sure where I can find it. Dink, can you give any more info?

Thanks all,
Matt

I would say that the author of the carb rebuild info on this site is not a rubber expert and has got it backwards with his advice to use a non-water-based rubber preserver.

 

[Dink]

This "rubber grease" sounds intriguing but I'm not sure where I can find it. Dink, can you give any more info?

Thanks all,
Matt

Yep I can!!! You cant buy it!!!! Believe it or not Castrol DO NOT sell it in the US or Canada:shock:
What you need is a grease for rubber parts, i.e. brake seals etc, it must non oil based.
From the Castrol Australia product guide about Rubber grease.
"Quote"

These systems generally employ rubber washers and o-rings. As even small
quantities of mineral oil on rubber can cause deterioration, do not use a
conventional mineral oil based grease. If metal components periodically in
contact with fluid require a lubricant, use only a grease specially designed for
these components, such as Castrol GRR (B) Grease."Quote/"

Gawd you 'mericans are hard done by:-D

Dink
prolly exhains the "Huh's??" I've been getting in response:-s​

 

[Boondocks]

Thanks, Dink. This would be further confirmation that a non-water based rubber preserver should NOT be used as recommended in the carb rebuild info. The mineral oil contained contained in non-water based rubber preservers will degrade the rubber, while water is just a carrier and will evaporate with no problems.

This is why the water based Armor All would be a good choice as a rubber preservative.

 

[Dink]

Thanks, Dink. This would be further confirmation that a non-water based rubber preserver should NOT be used as recommended in the carb rebuild info. The mineral oil contained contained in non-water based rubber preservers will degrade the rubber, while water is just a carrier and will evaporate with no problems.

This is why the water based Armor All would be a good choice as a rubber preservative.

My carb boots would be contra-indicative of this, as I used Armor-all on mine for the last couple of years and have had to replace them.
This is why I researched and found rubber grease and use it instead.

Dink

 

[Boondocks]

My carb boots would be contra-indicative of this, as I used Armor-all on mine for the last couple of years and have had to replace them.
This is why I researched and found rubber grease and use it instead.

Dink

It sounds like you were using the old solvent (mineral oil) based stuff. How old was the Armor All? If it had been sitting around for 20 years or so you might have had the old stuff with mineral oil in it. It's also possible that someone had a stock of the old stuff, or bought some old stuff at a discount and sold it as new.

The current water based formula is harmless to rubber.

 

[Dink]

I am in Parts. I buy direct from the distributer. So I reckon it was the latest stuff.
I recall that when the "discussion" of Armor-all has come up previously, a chemist who was a member at the time, pointed out that Armor-all was a "short chain polymer" and most(not all) plastics are "long chain polymers" and that this also would lead to the breakdown over time.
Anyway my own experience swear me off the stuff, I choose to use "alternative" products, and so far so good.

Dink

 

[anvilman]

armor all

armor all

gotta watch armor all cause it will cause plastic to crack i know several people that have used it on there dashs of there cars and they cracked in the summer.