Brake Pad Recommendations for '82 GS850GL

[joejeweler]

I've just rebuilt both front calipers on my 1982 GS850GL , and have a set of stainless steel speed bleeders coming, as well as a set of HEL braided stainless front brake lines. These will get installed when they arrive.

However, when i rebuilt the front calipers i reused the front brake pads as they looked hardly worn, and i didn't see any problems that were obvious like brake fluid contamination or glazing. While i had them out i did lightly sand them to freshen up the outer service, but they may very well be the original 1982 pads!

The bike has just 14,030 miles on it, of which 3500 miles or so were mine with light braking the being the norm. (same with excelleration,....i baby my baby!

I'm not sure how much better "new" brake pad technology has come in 30 years, "if" these are the original pads.

One thing i'm still getting is a very slight grabbyness when i apply the front brakes. Before i rebuilt them,.....they were MUCH worse! The whole front end would bob up and down when the front brake was applied. The rotors look fine,.....minimal runout and within usual limits. Light grooves in the rotors, but nothing unusual or any worse than the rear brake rotor, which is working perfectly.

.....long way to say i'm suspecting the front brake pads might be causing the slight "grabby/release" action on the front sunspension. The caliper sliders are greased and move freely, and after the cleanup and caliper rebuild i added just a little silicon grease to the front of the caliper piston where it touches the backing plate on the outside brake pad. I did this to help seal the inside hollow of the pistons, as one i had to clean out some rust where water had been getting in. As the outside of the pistons were visually perfect, after the cleanup i felt confident re-using them.

I didn't add any silicon grease along the sliding (guideing) edge of the brake pads, as my service manual said not to. I did clean up the metal edges when i did the rebuild, and the pads were free to slide along the metal "rail guide".

Not sure if the lack of any lubrication there is causing the slight grabby/release feel. I haven't run more than 50 miles since the caliper rebuilds, and after lightly sanding the pad surfaces they "might" need a little more time to seat to the rotors??? If it doesn't disappear completely after a few hundred more miles, i'll try a slight amount of silicon grease along the pad guide rails.

Anyway,....i'm thinking of picking up a set of new brake pads for this bike, and wondered what brand others here have had success with for this range of similiar bike models?

On ebay i found these, but they're not listing a brand and are made for the seller. http://www.ebay.com/itm/Suzuki-Disc...1909&pt=Motorcycles_Parts_Accessories&vxp=mtr

I prefer to know what i'm getting, and not adverse to buying the best quality pads made for these bikes.

.....any suggestions?

 

[Nessism]

Generic brake pads may be fine but why gamble when EBC's are cheap enough?

Try an ebay search on FA51. Tons of hits.

 

[TooManyToys]

.....long way to say i'm suspecting the front brake pads might be causing the slight "grabby/release" action on the front sunspension. ......

Not sure if the lack of any lubrication there is causing the slight grabby/release feel. ......

If what you are describing is a change in deceleration or pulsation, that would be thickness variation in the rotor rubbing surface, also know as a lack of parallelism. Often mistaken as a "warped" rotor with excessive runout. You only need about 0.0006" thickness variation in the rotor to start to feel the problem. You could have a rotor with a runout of 0.0010" but still have 0.0010" variation in the disc's width. Need to check with a micrometer if you are that repeatable with one.

 

[platinum2]

if rotors are warped you can see by rotating the front wheel, brakes need time to ware to the rotors,if the rotors have grooves in them, go with good brakes, dont trust cheap crap,your lifes on the line

 

[joejeweler]

Generic brake pads may be fine but why gamble when EBC's are cheap enough?

Try an ebay search on FA51. Tons of hits.

That's what i was looking for,....an actual brand and model #.


I take it a lot of folks use the EBC brand? They are about double the generic,.....but still cheap enough. I wasn't familiar with the name,.....as most of my bikes had brake pads that i never needed to replace. I told you i'm light handed on the brakes!

If what you are describing is a change in deceleration or pulsation, that would be thickness variation in the rotor rubbing surface, also know as a lack of parallelism. Often mistaken as a "warped" rotor with excessive runout. You only need about 0.0006" thickness variation in the rotor to start to feel the problem. You could have a rotor with a runout of 0.0010" but still have 0.0010" variation in the disc's width. Need to check with a micrometer if you are that repeatable with one.

If the new pads don't cure it,....i'll buy a micrometer. I have LOTS of quality dial calipers and vernier calipers,.....but never aquired a micrometer as i didn't have a need. Now's the time! Nice to have a used tool store nearby with lots of quality US made tools. (Starrett and similiar at reasonable prices)

if rotors are warped you can see by rotating the front wheel, brakes need time to ware to the rotors,if the rotors have grooves in them, go with good brakes, dont trust cheap crap,your lifes on the line

When i bought the bike 6 years ago, i checked the rotars that way. They looked true with the spin "test". Not as accurate as a dial guage test, but with the low miles i doubt that's the problem. Also since about 90% of the problem is gone since the caliper rebuild,.....i'm really hoping new quality pads and new HEL braided steel brake lines cure the remaining grab/release slight bobbing of the forks.

BTW, i feel NO pulsating at the front brake lever,.....just the forks slightly moving down and up when applying front brakes.

 

[Guest]

Before you install the new SS brake lines, it would be a good idea to re-build the front master cylinder too (if you didn't already).

There's a very tiny vent hole down the bore that often gets blocked up - make sure it's clear.

 

[joejeweler]

Before you install the new SS brake lines, it would be a good idea to re-build the front master cylinder too (if you didn't already).

There's a very tiny vent hole down the bore that often gets blocked up - make sure it's clear.

Hi,...yes,....i was planning on picking up a rebuild kit, but will probably hold off until i actually have a problem.

That return hole is plenty "clear",......as the 2 foot "spitting" on my driveway showed! :lol: (until i covered the reservoir)

 

[BassCliff]

Hi,

Front end diving during braking seems like it would be more related to worn out fork springs. I know installing new Peogressive springs really made the front behave much better on my bike.

Thank you for your indulgence,

BassCliff

 

[joejeweler]

Hi,

Front end diving during braking seems like it would be more related to worn out fork springs. I know installing new Peogressive springs really made the front behave much better on my bike.

Thank you for your indulgence,

BassCliff

Hi Cliff,....the diving doesn't seem unusual,.....although progressive springs would surely help there and a project for next year probably. I want to ride this year, and still want to complete the brake upgrades, as well as replace all the fuel/vacume lines and install the new petcock i have coming. (old one a bit hard to switch over to reserve,....with dry feel to rubber parts)

What i get is the usual ( i think "reasonable" on these old springs) braking dive, nothing alarming,.....but then an alternating slight up and back down motion to the forks. It feels a bit like the brakes are hitting a spot where they aren't under as much friction,....hense the slight rise of the forks.

I'm also going to lightly go over the rotors with 400 grit sandpaper,....in case i have some light glazing i can't see but might be there.

.....going to find the cause if it KILLS me! (so it doesn't!!! )

 

[twr1776]

I agree with Cliff that the progressive springs will make the front end behave much better and also recommend you put them on your "list" for replacement ASAP.

As far as the original topic I have been using the Vesrah VD-322 organic type brake pads on the front for a few years now and have been happy with them. They are supposed to be easier on the rotors than the sintered type.

Not sure about this vendor but here is a link to the pads

http://www.oemcycle.com/Item/product/900028942

 

[Steve]

BTW, i feel NO pulsating at the front brake lever,.....just the forks slightly moving down and up when applying front brakes.

Simple physics will tell you that the forks will compress when using the brakes. How much they compress will be a result of how heavy the ibike is, how strong the springs are and how hard you are applying the brakes. That Vetter anchor on the front is not helping any, either. (Yes, I have a fairing, too, but it weighs half as much.)

What has not been mentioned yet is how quickly the forks dive when braking. That will be controlled by the fork oil. If your fork oil level is low, the dampers are moving through air, which doesn't have nearly as much rresistance as nice fresh oil. Check your fork oil, fill it to the proper level with proper oil, enjoy the difference. With the weight of the fairing on your forks, 15w oil will probably work best.

.

 

[joejeweler]

Simple physics will tell you that the forks will compress when using the brakes. How much they compress will be a result of how heavy the bike is, how strong the springs are and how hard you are applying the brakes. That Vetter anchor on the front is not helping any, either. (Yes, I have a fairing, too, but it weighs half as much.)

What has not been mentioned yet is how quickly the forks dive when braking. That will be controlled by the fork oil. If your fork oil level is low, the dampers are moving through air, which doesn't have nearly as much rresistance as nice fresh oil. Check your fork oil, fill it to the proper level with proper oil, enjoy the difference. With the weight of the fairing on your forks, 15w oil will probably work best.

.

Thanks for the heads up,.......i have yet to change the fork oil. The seals are fine so far, and the forks actually held air during the 3 years it was stored in the garage until this year.

......i'll try some new 15W fork oil, although my Haynes manual calls for 15W fork oil so not any heavier than what's probably in there now. Should be refreshed in any case.

The Vetter fairing weighs some for sure, but i ride solo and as it's frame mounted the weight is spread a bit between both wheels and suspension. Certainly a LOT lighter than most any passenger would be!

Oh,....and the forks diving a bit is expected, not my main concern. It's the slight "up & down" bobbing motion during braking i want to eleminate once i track it down. I also feel the bike slowing and on every revolution a spot where the friction on the rotors is less (ie less braking action), which then causes the forks to rise a bit. This is the "bobbing" of the forks i've decribed.

Anyway,......once i can get some new EBC FA51 pads and get them installed, i can eliminate one more variable.

 

[DPage]

I agree with Cliff that the progressive springs will make the front end behave much better and also recommend you put them on your "list" for replacement ASAP.

As far as the original topic I have been using the Vesrah VD-322 organic type brake pads on the front for a few years now and have been happy with them. They are supposed to be easier on the rotors than the sintered type.

Not sure about this vendor but here is a link to the pads

http://www.oemcycle.com/Item/product/900028942

I like the Vesrah VD-322 front pads also, they seem to have a little more bite than EBC's and you can get them at Cycle Recycle II out of Indianapolis.

 

[TooManyToys]

....... I also feel the bike slowing and on every revolution a spot where the friction on the rotors is less (ie less braking action), which then causes the forks to rise a bit. This is the "bobbing" of the forks i've decribed.

Anyway,......once i can get some new EBC FA51 pads and get them installed, i can eliminate one more variable.

Thickness variation (not runout) which may have progressed to the point of having a hard spot in the rotor ......... which cannot be machined out.

When you dressed the rotors did you see any shiny areas?

 

[joejeweler]

Thickness variation (not runout) which may have progressed to the point of having a hard spot in the rotor ......... which cannot be machined out.

When you dressed the rotors did you see any shiny areas?

I actually haven't done anything with the rotors yet other than a good cleanup and inspecting them for any glazing. I didn't see any, and i've yet to lightly hand sand them down briefly with some 400 grit just in case a bit of glazing is there but not readily showing. Probably do that soon, and try a new set of EBC pads when i pick up a pair.

 

[Nessism]

Thickness variation is rarely an issue with GS rotors. Scuffing in the rotors never hurts with new pads, but I wouldn't waste time with 400 grit. I'd use something rough like 150 and scuff them down good.

 

[TooManyToys]

Ed,

Then why the variation in deceleration?

 

[joejeweler]

Well, today i recieved 2 sets of EBC FA51 front brake pads to see if they would end the slight bobbing of the front end when using the front brakes.
I also recieved a set of EBC FA36 pads for the rear, soon to be installed when i rebuild that caliper next week.

I had already rebuilt both front calipers with the K&N kits, and that alone helped a lot. But there was still some up/down motion with front brake application.

Anyway, today i removed the old (probably original 30 year old) pads from each front caliper, even though they still had plenty of thickness left. (only 14.2K miles on the bike now)

Then i lightly sanded the rotors on all sides with 150 grit sandpaper to remove any glasing that might be there but not apparant, followed by a damp paper towl rinsing with a drop of dish detergent followed by a clear water rinse and pat down with some dry paper towels.

The metal shims were transfered from the old to the new piston side pads, and a small dab of hi-temp silicone grease was applied to the lip of each piston. Besides helping with any squeel, i think it's good there to seal out moisture.

One of the pistons previously had a bit of rust in the hollow that i was able to clean out, but the working outer edges of each piston was perfect ofter an application of brake cleaner and a paper towel rub down. (when i originally rebuilt the calipers a few weeks ago)

Back together the calipers went, and i bled a small amount of brake fluid out only because the new pads were a bit thicker than the ones removed, and i wanted to create a little reserve space in the master cylinder to offset fluid being sent back by pushing in the pistons a bit on the new pad install.

Crossed my fingers on the first test ride,......and i'm happy to report the problem has GONE AWAY!

The new pads still need to completely mate against the rotors for maximum stopping power,.....but that's a quick 100 to 200 mile city mileage ordeal,....probably a week or less.

For now,....no more bobbing of the front end when braking! It does show that even when everything "looks" ok,......there can be something wrong that only a part change will confirm.

I've concluded that although the front brake pads "looked" OK,.....somewhere over their life they picked up some fluid contamination that rendered them inconsistant and causing the grab/release sensation!

Over the 6 years i've owned the bike (last 3 of which the bike was stored), this has always been a problem that i was going to eventually find the cause of. I didn't put a lot of miles on the bike originally,....old tires one other reason besides the braking question.

So far this season i've put on 1500 miles or thereabouts,....with many more to follow! And now with new tires and great brakes (soon to be upgraded with SS HEL lines), my GS850L has become my (most) everyday ride.

 

[TooManyToys]

Joe,

I really hope this did take care of the issue. But if you were having a cyclic issue then it would be from the rotors not the pads. One thing not discussed was having an area of heavy friction transfer onto the rotor at one spot. This can also cause variation in deceleration just like thickness variation. Sorry for not mentioning it.

If it was a thick transfer the sanding would have taken care of the issue permanently along with a change in brake pad composition. If there still is an issue with thickness variation or hardness, you may meet up again with Bobby. A rough sanded surface just does not behave like a burnished in, smooth rotor and friction surface that has trace friction material transfer.

But again, I hope you have no more issues.

 

[joejeweler]

Joe,

I really hope this did take care of the issue. But if you were having a cyclic issue then it would be from the rotors not the pads. One thing not discussed was having an area of heavy friction transfer onto the rotor at one spot. This can also cause variation in deceleration just like thickness variation. Sorry for not mentioning it.

If it was a thick transfer the sanding would have taken care of the issue permanently along with a change in brake pad composition. If there still is an issue with thickness variation or hardness, you may meet up again with Bobby. A rough sanded surface just does not behave like a burnished in, smooth rotor and friction surface that has trace friction material transfer.

But again, I hope you have no more issues.

I'm keeping an eye on it,.....hope to permenentally ban "Bobby" from the invitation list! If it begins to rear it's ugly head again, i guess new rotors will be my only choice left.

......or possibly have these turned down as there really isn't much wear showing save for the typical shallow record groove look. :-$

Not sure if that is often done on bike rotors today or not :?:

(funny,.....i initially typed in "bile" rotors above as a typo! Kinda fitting when your rotors are acting like crap!) :lol:

I don't expect the same performance you'd get today with the modern brake caliper advances. But as i'm not planning on pushing the bike to it's limits,.....i can "live" with less.