Coil Relay mod 2.3 volt drop??

[Guest]

Hey guys,

I recently put in the coil relay mod following the directions on Cliff's site. Everything seem to work ok afterwards. However, I put in a brand new AGM battery two days ago and this morning the battery was almost completely drained. Not sure exactly why but in doing some quick detective work, I was checking the relay to make sure it was not always on or something. Anyway, I noticed that when my battery was showing 11.7v with the headlight and switch on, the positive output to the coils (pin 87) at the relay was showing on 9.3v. That's worse than before I put the relay in!

Right now, I have pin 30 going to the battery + fused of course. Pin 85 going to my common ground point, which is ground to the battery - too. Pin 86 is wired to the original o/w wire from one of the coils and pin 87 is wired to the coils + side. Coils neg is still using the neg wire from the harness.

So, I'm wondering if I did something wrong or if this could indicate I have a bad relay or ?

 

[Steve]

Well, the battery is obviously low, so charge that up, then do a few measurements, please.

With the key ON, measure (all with the same ground reference):
1. the battery
2. pin 30 on the relay
3. pin 87 on the relay
4. + terminal on the coil
5. the battery

The reason for checking the battery again is to see how much (if any) the voltage has dropped while you were getting the other readings.
You can minimize the drain on the battery by using jumper cables and connecting to your car, as long as the car engine is NOT running. You can also use a lawn tractor or any other 'vehicle' that uses a 12-volt battery.

.

 

[Guest]

Ok Steve,

12.47 @ batt with key off
12.03 with key on at batt
12.03 at 30 pin
10.25 at the 87 pin but rising slowly
10.25 at the + coil

I hear the relay click when I hook the wire from pin 30 to the battery even though the key is off. Is it supposed to do that?

Thanks.

 

[Steve]

Ok Steve,

12.47 @ batt with key off
12.03 with key on at batt
12.03 at 30 pin
10.25 at the 87 pin but rising slowly
10.25 at the + coil

I hear the relay click when I hook the wire from pin 30 to the battery even though the key is off. Is it supposed to do that?

Thanks.

What was the last check, the second measurement at the battery?

The relay should not make any noise when you connect or disconnect anything from pin 30. The only time it will make any noise is when you apply power or ground to 85 and/or 86.

If the relay clicked when you connected to 30, something is wrong, and that could be why your battery was run down earlier.

You really need to find out why you are losing almost 2 volts in your short wire from the battery to the relay. Especially when using new wire, the output of the relay (#87) should be virtually identical to battery voltage. You showed low voltage going into the relay, so take a good look at your connection at the battery, measure the voltage at both ends of the fuse, then at #30 of the relay. All of those should be the same reading.

In your first post, you described proper connections, so I am out of guesses now. :-\\\

.

 

[posplayr]

The voltage drop between pin 30 and pin 87 is due to a drop inside the relay or you don't have the pins right. When the relay is energized. There should be no voltage diff between 30 and 87 even if they are loaded down a couple of volts from battery.

One other possibility is that you still have the O/W connected to the kill switch and the relay is not engaged for some reason. Not sure how you might have managed that .

 

[koolaid_kid]

Hey guys,

Right now, I have pin 30 going to the battery + fused of course. Pin 85 going to my common ground point, which is ground to the battery - too. Pin 86 is wired to the original o/w wire from one of the coils and pin 87 is wired to the coils + side. Coils neg is still using the neg wire from the harness.

So, I'm wondering if I did something wrong or if this could indicate I have a bad relay or ?

First, there is no +/- side to the coils.
Terminal 87 should be wired to the side of the coil that the O/W wire used to be wired to. No O/W wire should be connected to the coils at all.
One of the O/W wires should be connected to terminal 86. When the switch is in the ON position and the kill switch is not activated, it powers a small coil inside the relay. This coil closes a set of points inside the relay and then terminal 30 has a direct connection to terminal 87, with virtually no loss of voltage, especially with a brand new relay.
Check to make sure terminal 85 has a good solid connection to the ground and to the battery.
The other connector on the coils connects to the igniter. They are different colors for each coil to differentiate between the 1-4 and the 2-3 sides of the igniter output.
Lastly, if that is truly a new AGM battery, it should not have run down unless you are really grinding on the battery. It sounds to me like you have a poor connection in one (or more) of your wires.

 

[Guest]

Steve - sorry, I forgot to post the battery voltage after testing all the other connections. It was 12.03.

I checked everything again today and actually cut and recrimped a new battery connection. Again, here's my wiring setup:

Pin 30 going to the battery positive, fused of course. Pin 85 going to my common ground point, which is connected to the battery neg as well. Pin 86 is wired to the original o/w wire from one of the coils and pin 87 is wired to the coils +. Coil neg is still using the original wire from the harness.

I still could hear the relay clicking when I attach it to battery power even though the key is off. I'm going to go get a new relay when I get back in town this weekend and just replace it to eliminate a bad relay.

I still suppose something is not right with the wiring on my bike as it relates to the coil mod setup but I sure don't know what.

I also did a parasitic drain test by disconnecting the negative battery cables, putting my tester on DC mA, placing my positive lead onto the negative battery terminal and my negative lead onto the neg cables and saw that I was pulling .25 amps. I then pulled each fuse looking for any change. None was noticed. I then pulled the fuse on the relay and the tester went to 0.0. So it's definitely within the coil relay mod that's draining the battery. So for now, I will keep the fuse pulled until I get back on Sat and can replace it.

Anything else from a wiring perspective I should check?

Thanks guys.

 

[posplayr]

Steve - sorry, I forgot to post the battery voltage after testing all the other connections. It was 12.03.

I checked everything again today and actually cut and recrimped a new battery connection. Again, here's my wiring setup:

Pin 30 going to the battery positive, fused of course. Pin 85 going to my common ground point, which is connected to the battery neg as well. Pin 86 is wired to the original o/w wire from one of the coils and pin 87 is wired to the coils +. Coil neg is still using the original wire from the harness.

I still could hear the relay clicking when I attach it to battery power even though the key is off. I'm going to go get a new relay when I get back in town this weekend and just replace it to eliminate a bad relay.

I still suppose something is not right with the wiring on my bike as it relates to the coil mod setup but I sure don't know what.

I also did a parasitic drain test by disconnecting the negative battery cables, putting my tester on DC mA, placing my positive lead onto the negative battery terminal and my negative lead onto the neg cables and saw that I was pulling .25 amps. I then pulled each fuse looking for any change. None was noticed. I then pulled the fuse on the relay and the tester went to 0.0. So it's definitely within the coil relay mod that's draining the battery. So for now, I will keep the fuse pulled until I get back on Sat and can replace it.

Anything else from a wiring perspective I should check?

Thanks guys.

250mA is a pretty big drain even larger than the relay coil. Something is obviously not right; maybe the relay replacement will solve it.

 

[Guest]

Agreed. If a new relay doesn't solve it, then I'm putting the wiring back and doing another drain test. Maybe something is jacked with the factory wiring portion of the circuit. I am still using the igniter to coil wires from the harness as well as one of the o/w wires that was going to the coils to pin 86.

I think I will pull the relay and double check that I was reading the pin labels properly. It is tiny and so maybe I didn't read it right? But, the bike starts and runs so not sure I could really mess that up. Would it matter if I had pin 30 and pin 86 reversed?

 

[Guest]

Ok, I rechecked that I had read the relay pin numbering correctly and sure enough, I had pin 30 and 86 reversed. Don't see those little numbers like I used to haha. The clicking when connecting to the battery was the clue that hit me as I was responding to my own post. No drain now and no clicking until I turn the key on and the run switch. Also, I'm only dropping .02v now.

Problem solved yay!

Thanks again guys. Sometimes just talking it out leads to the solution.