CRAP!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!broken bolts!

[Barncat]

SO, my pet project 1983 GS750E(d) has taken a crappy turn for the worst!

I was pulling the header off, and noticed that there was a broken bolt from the P.O.. I went in with bated breath, but sure enough I had 2 bolts that snapped off, leaving less than a 1/4" of stud exposed.

I have been hitting with PB, daily. I don't want to use heat, with fear of damaging the heads. I'm not going to mess with the welded nut, just don't have enough threads left. I have resorted to drilling and tapping. I have a set of left hand bits and extractors coming.
Two of the bolts are next to the frame, so I don'tbelieve the extractor handle will spin easily. Would it be ignorant to use a 12 point socket on the extractor head?
I'm trying to avoid pulling the head, as I have never done it on a bike before, and I'm trying to keep costs down.

Do you guys have ANY advice to help me on this. I think the extractors will work, but just curious if there is a better socket option?

 

[FormerBMWguy]

A 12-point socket on the square end of the extractor is fine- just put an extension on it and use a small T-handle instead of a ratchet. It's almost the same as a tap-handle and you'll distribute your rotational force better than if you use the ratchet or flex-handle. PB is good, as is a product called "ZePreserve". Carefully heat the port with a propane torch (carefully!) before you EZ-out; it just might make the difference between pulling the bolt or breaking the remover. It won't hurt anything as long as you're conscientious about it. Once I cut a slot in the projecting bolt end with a Dremel and was able to unscrew it with a screwdriver, some ZePreserve, and a little heat. Good luck!

 

[Guest]

Best penetrating oil I've ever used was a home-made mix of 50/50 acetone & ATF. Way better than PB Blaster. Be careful with the propane & acetone...

Those exhaust header bolts are a rite-of-passage on these old GS bikes. Lots of threads here on various ways to remove them - everyone has story it seems concerning their own experience.

IMO, don't use an easy-out, it will break & you'll be worse off. I've had this happen a few times; had my friend tig-weld a bolt to a couple once (had to remove the head) and that worked very well.

I also had good luck with MAP gas (hotter than propane) and penetrating oil - I had enough sticking out to jam a socket on to (beat it on with a hammer), apply the oil over a couple of days & heat with the MAP gas. If you're lucky it with start to turn ever so slightly, once the thread has broken free then keep at the oil & work it slowly. It will come out but it's a pianfull process.

Good luck

 

[Barncat]

I will try the socket route, because a this point, I have nothing to lose.

Do you just heat the head up from the exhaust port? I'm just wirried about warping the exhaust port on the head.

 

[Barncat]

Yeah, my Search Fu was off. I always forget to search, when frustrated.

I'm replacing with bolts again(instead of studs), what about using silver anti seize on the bolts? Will that help. I had to pre-order these bolts, so I am stuck with em, whether I use them or not.

 

[FormerBMWguy]

Just heat the aluminum around the broken bolt to expand it, trying not to heat the bolt too much. Aluminum expands much faster than steel, so sometimes you can heat it, then spray penetrant around the bolt shaft and it will get drawn in and work better because you've increased the space around the threads. Definitely use anti-seize compound. Most of them are aluminum based (they're actually aluminum powder in a petroleum base), but I use the copper-based Never-seize on aluminum because I've had better luck with it (also good for cast-iron). This whole problem results because of the dialectric action between dissimilar metals, so I'm of the opinion (from what I've observed) that aluminum-based anti-seize compounds aren't much better than just greasing the bolt when used in aluminum parts. After all, if you're having a problem because of the aluminum reacting with the steel (in conjunction with heat and/or moisture), adding more aluminum to the mix may not be the best solution.

 

[Barncat]

Just heat the aluminum around the broken bolt to expand it, trying not to heat the bolt too much. Aluminum expands much faster than steel, so sometimes you can heat it, then spray penetrant around the bolt shaft and it will get drawn in and work better because you've increased the space around the threads. Definitely use anti-seize compound. Most of them are aluminum based (they're actually aluminum powder in a petroleum base), but I use the copper-based Never-seize on aluminum because I've had better luck with it (also good for cast-iron). This whole problem results because of the dialectric action between dissimilar metals, so I'm of the opinion (from what I've observed) that aluminum-based anti-seize compounds aren't much better than just greasing the bolt when used in aluminum parts. After all, if you're having a problem because of the aluminum reacting with the steel (in conjunction with heat and/or moisture), adding more aluminum to the mix may not be the best solution.

good info, thanks. I'll pick up some copper anti-seize then. I'll try the socket/heat method tommorow. I'll go at it with propane, less chance of damage(although I do have Air/Acty. and Oxy Acty).
Hopefully they'll come out without too much hassle. I hate easy out's, but these are in such a spot, that drilling out may be a last resort.

 

[Steve]

..., what about using silver anti seize on the bolts? Will that help. ...

It is my understanding that you should use copper anti-seize between the steel bolts and aluminum head.

.

 

[Dogma]

Some folks recommend converting to studs and acorn nuts instead of putting screws back in (once they're all out, that is).

 

[Guest]

The more sure-fire method is drilling them out, but it takes a lot longer and access is restricted because of the fork. You need sharp, high quality drill bits, (left hand spiral if you can find them) a center punch and cutting oil.
> File broken bolt flat enough to mark the center with the punch.
> Use small drill, say 1/16" for a pilot hole. Be very careful to drill straight. Use a good bolt to find how deep to go. Stop often to keep the bit cool, and to oil it.
> Go gradually up in bit diameter.
> Eventually the remaining portion will be loose.
It's a boring way to spend two hours.

 

[Barncat]

The more sure-fire method is drilling them out, but it takes a lot longer and access is restricted because of the fork. You need sharp, high quality drill bits, (left hand spiral if you can find them) a center punch and cutting oil.
> File broken bolt flat enough to mark the center with the punch.
> Use small drill, say 1/16" for a pilot hole. Be very careful to drill straight. Use a good bolt to find how deep to go. Stop often to keep the bit cool, and to oil it.
> Go gradually up in bit diameter.
> Eventually the remaining portion will be loose.
It's a boring way to spend two hours.

Son of a tool and die maker here, so I know boring

Two hours is cheaper than a machine shop or a new head.

 

[bwringer]

Extractors never work. NEVER. They will break off and then you've got a real problem.

Drill and re-tap. It's the only way.

 

[Nessism]

Heating the bolt is the trick; it breaks down the corrosion holding the bolt to the head. Get it good and hot, red hot if you can, and then let it cool down.

When trying to remove the header bolts the trick is to use a short 1/4" ratchet handle and do NOT force the bolts. Heat, spray oil, heat, spray oil, turn the bolt in, out, in, out. Worth it back and forth until it starts to move but NEVER use so much force that the bolt will snap.

When you start drilling I suggest you use a small bit first and then work it sideways if you are off center. Move up to the next bit and start working that. At all costs you don't want to hit the aluminum so stay in the middle of the bolt. LH bits will bite into the screw and spin it out so that works well. Most people wind up removing the head before they ruin it trying to drill around frame rails but by all means give it a go.

 

[bluepinner]

I will tell you from experience DO NOT USE AN EXTRACTOR!!!!! Use cobalt left hand drill bits. Lots of cutting fluid. Take your time and go from small bit to the next size up and so on. I was going good with the drilling and then my father broke the extractor. I still haven't got that out. Drilling is the way.

1. Slow drill
2. just slight pressure
3. lots of cutting fluid
4. take your time

 

[ptomkrvr]

I will tell you from experience DO NOT USE AN EXTRACTOR!!!!! Use cobalt left hand drill bits. Lots of cutting fluid. Take your time and go from small bit to the next size up and so on. I was going good with the drilling and then my father broke the extractor. I still haven't got that out. Drilling is the way.

1. Slow drill
2. just slight pressure
3. lots of cutting fluid
4. take your time

What size drill bit do you end up with, and what product would you then use? thanks

 

[Clone]

If you have 1/4"showing above the head, you can put a nut on that and hit it with a MIG then turn it out, no?:-k

 

[Barncat]

If you have 1/4"showing above the head, you can put a nut on that and hit it with a MIG then turn it out, no?:-k

I would like to think so. My welder is down, not sure when it will be up(rectifier is screwed, and hard to find).

I'm trying to see if I can get a buddy, who is a mobile welder, over. That's what I'd like to try. I have the manifold off, So it wouldn't be much to do.