Driving Lights?

[TomE]

Hi Guys,

Anyone know how much, if any, extra wattage my GS1100E can supply for driving lights? I am willing to use a switch to turn them off in the city, I only want them for the dark country roads.

Thanks!

 

[salty_monk]

There is not a lot of spare capacity at all. If I was going to fit them I'd look into using a Mosfet RR like the FH012 as a minimum & possibly twin it with a larger capacity stator.

You'd probably get away with it in short bursts on a standard system over a decent length ride. On my bike 30w of heated grips drops charging voltage 0.3v if that helps (I do have the Mosfet RR though so it would prob drop more without that).

Dan

 

[Vinnie]

Well now I'm confused after what Salty Monk said. I have two 55w driving lamps on my 1000G. With the bike parked and choke pulled out to get it revving at 1500, the voltage at the battery terminals show 12.1 or so (using analog multimeter). If I'm measuring from the wrong spot then let me know, and I will recheck at correct location. I'm also using an AGM battery have LED lights all around with exception to the headlight and the dash lights if that helps.

With that aside, I haven't had any problems yet using those lights. But I also have a battery/charging meter added to keep a close watch on any dramatic power drops. Hope this helped.

 

[posplayr]

Well now I'm confused after what Salty Monk said. I have two 55w driving lamps on my 1000G. With the bike parked and choke pulled out to get it revving at 1500, the voltage at the battery terminals show 12.1 or so (using analog multimeter). If I'm measuring from the wrong spot then let me know, and I will recheck at correct location. I'm also using an AGM battery have LED lights all around with exception to the headlight and the dash lights if that helps.

With that aside, I haven't had any problems yet using those lights. But I also have a battery/charging meter added to keep a close watch on any dramatic power drops. Hope this helped.

12.1 volts is actually discharging the battery. It should be closer to 12.7-12.8.

With 110W of added load, any idea what your voltage is when running at 5000 RPM (it should be above 13.0V)? There is generally not that much reserve charging capacity. More than likely you are discharging moderately when at the full 110W load and since you are probably not going that long the battery tolerates it till next time it is run. I'm guessing anyway as the total capacity is not much more than 250W and I don't think there is 110W reserve.

Of course when you are in this voltage range it can take a few minutes for the voltage to stabilize if you go from a discharging to charging state.

 

[Vinnie]

Thank you for clearing that up Posplayr. I kinda figured I was missing something. I had bought a couple of those PIAA H3 35w bulbs to replace them, but haven't gotten around to switching them out.

As far as knowing what the voltage is at 5000 I can't be sure. I have one of those green-amber-red LED light meters for watching the voltage, and will show 1 out of 2 of the green lights at 4500. (Can't rev it that loud at home as neighbors get annoyed)

I forgot to mention that I also turn them off a few miles before reaching my destination.

 

[spyug]

I run a pair of 55w halogen minis on the 750GS and they are fine for short bursts. I only use them as an extra attention grabber going through busy intersections or riding down shady country lanes and through tunnels, although they do throw out a lot of light. At 3000 rpm and above I barely notice any voltage drop but I don't know that my analog meter is all that accurate. Changing to a digital one this season.

I should think you would be ok with smaller lights but I'm not sure about those honking big PIAA searchlights that the Ironbutt mob seem to favour.

Cheers,
spyug

 

[bonanzadave]

Dont know if something like this is even an option....

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Moto...5364246QQptZMotorcyclesQ5fPartsQ5fAccessories


Maybe someone who has tried them will enlighten us.

 

[bakalorz]

Dont know if something like this is even an option....

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Moto...5364246QQptZMotorcyclesQ5fPartsQ5fAccessories


Maybe someone who has tried them will enlighten us.

Don't waste your money.

I haven't tried those particular lights, but have a pair of similar LED lights with (if I remember right) 24 leds all facing forward. NOT NEARLY BRIGHT ENOUGH to even pretend to be driving lights.
(wired to a connector with a 6 foot cord they make a reasonable trouble light though, and the current draw is low enough to not worry about them killing the battery if they are used with the bike not running)

On my 650 I tried to measure how much extra charging/output capacity I had by hooking up various combinations of resistors and bulbs etc. up at various RPMs and checking the voltage and current. I came to the conclusion that 2 amps at high idle, and somewhere around 4 to 6 amps at above 3500 rpm was about the max you could continuously load the system. Thats allows ONE 55 watt halogen (not a pair)

I have come to the conclusion that if you want more light, pretty much the only option for a GS is going to be using HID bulbs in the headlight.
(Real HID, not the "HID look bulbs" ... If it doesn't come with a ballast, it isn't a real HID system)
35 watt HID gives about 3 to 4 times as much light as a 55 watt halogen, and will actually use an amp or two less current, letting you use that current for something else.

Appropriate motorcycle HID systems are going for about $50-60 on E-bay right now, I haven't checked into other sources.
Start with this search string to see examples:
HID (Moto,bike,Motorbike,motorcycle) -bulb -bulbs -ballast -relay (hilow,"hi/low","bi-xenon",bi,by,dual)
The correct systems will say something about "Hi/Low" or "Bi-Xenon" or similar, indicating that they do both the High beam and Low beam from one bulb.

The fly in the ointment is that they are NOT DOT approved anywhere in the USA. They can only officially be sold for offroad use.
If you have state inspections they will not pass, and if a police officer wants, he can pull you over and cite you for it, possibly even impound the bike.
OTOH, if you don't get a "blue" looking bulb, I don't know how easily they could tell just from the extra brightness.

A second minor point against them is that they won't work with headlight modulators, which I think are a big plus visibility wise.

And finally, two additional points about headlight brightness.
1) The brightness of the stock system is HUGELY influenced by the voltage at the bulb. With the anemic wiring and a couple of switches dropping some voltage, its probably possible to get a noticeable increase in light output just by running direct dedicated 12 guage wires (switched by a pair of relays) to the headlight and eliminating some of the losses.
2) There are better 55 watt halogen bulbs available, for example the OSRAM Silverstar (NOT the Sylvania Silverstar ... If the bulb glass has a blueish tint, its the wrong one)
These have a filament that burns hotter, so they produce more light from the same input power. Its not that much extra though, only about 50% more.
The main disadvantage is they only last 1/10th as long or so.
However, they are DOT legal everywhere.

 

[posplayr]

Don't waste your money.

I haven't tried those particular lights, but have a pair of similar LED lights with (if I remember right) 24 leds all facing forward. NOT NEARLY BRIGHT ENOUGH to even pretend to be driving lights.
(wired to a connector with a 6 foot cord they make a reasonable trouble light though, and the current draw is low enough to not worry about them killing the battery if they are used with the bike not running)

On my 650 I tried to measure how much extra charging/output capacity I had by hooking up various combinations of resistors and bulbs etc. up at various RPMs and checking the voltage and current. I came to the conclusion that 2 amps at high idle, and somewhere around 4 to 6 amps at above 3500 rpm was about the max you could continuously load the system. Thats allows ONE 55 watt halogen (not a pair)

I have come to the conclusion that if you want more light, pretty much the only option for a GS is going to be using HID bulbs in the headlight.
(Real HID, not the "HID look bulbs" ... If it doesn't come with a ballast, it isn't a real HID system)
35 watt HID gives about 3 to 4 times as much light as a 55 watt halogen, and will actually use an amp or two less current, letting you use that current for something else.

Appropriate motorcycle HID systems are going for about $50-60 on E-bay right now, I haven't checked into other sources.
Start with this search string to see examples:
HID (Moto,bike,Motorbike,motorcycle) -bulb -bulbs -ballast -relay (hilow,"hi/low","bi-xenon",bi,by,dual)
The correct systems will say something about "Hi/Low" or "Bi-Xenon" or similar, indicating that they do both the High beam and Low beam from one bulb.

The fly in the ointment is that they are NOT DOT approved anywhere in the USA. They can only officially be sold for offroad use.
If you have state inspections they will not pass, and if a police officer wants, he can pull you over and cite you for it, possibly even impound the bike.
OTOH, if you don't get a "blue" looking bulb, I don't know how easily they could tell just from the extra brightness.

A second minor point against them is that they won't work with headlight modulators, which I think are a big plus visibility wise.

And finally, two additional points about headlight brightness.
1) The brightness of the stock system is HUGELY influenced by the voltage at the bulb. With the anemic wiring and a couple of switches dropping some voltage, its probably possible to get a noticeable increase in light output just by running direct dedicated 12 guage wires (switched by a pair of relays) to the headlight and eliminating some of the losses.
2) There are better 55 watt halogen bulbs available, for example the OSRAM Silverstar (NOT the Sylvania Silverstar ... If the bulb glass has a blueish tint, its the wrong one)
These have a filament that burns hotter, so they produce more light from the same input power. Its not that much extra though, only about 50% more.
The main disadvantage is they only last 1/10th as long or so.
However, they are DOT legal everywhere.

Nice well thought out assessment of the issues; Thanks

 

[bwringer]

The Silverstars last just as long as any other bulb. Not sure where you got the idea that they only last 1/10 as long. They are definitely great bulbs.

Anyway, back to the topic, there are some excellent LED based lights that are great for added visibility (others can see you better), but none that kick out enough light to help you see better.
Except maybe these $500 beauties:
http://www.webbikeworld.com/lights/motorcycle-led-driving-lights/

Webbikeworld has been staying on top of the LED craze pretty well:
http://www.webbikeworld.com/lights/bikevis-led-lights/

 

[Turtleface]

The Silverstars last just as long as any other bulb. Not sure where you got the idea that they only last 1/10 as long. They are definitely great bulbs.

Anyway, back to the topic, there are some excellent LED based lights that are great for added visibility (others can see you better), but none that kick out enough light to help you see better.
Except maybe these $500 beauties:
http://www.webbikeworld.com/lights/motorcycle-led-driving-lights/

Webbikeworld has been staying on top of the LED craze pretty well:
http://www.webbikeworld.com/lights/bikevis-led-lights/

LEDs are going to be awesome once manufacturers get the whole light output thing increased. I might pick up a pair of these if I end up with a little extra money. Variable controller looks neat. Thanks for the link!

 

[Vinnie]

Have any of you guys had the opportunity to see if these LED headlights are worth a shot? It's the trucklite brand.
http://www.truck-lite.com/webapp/wc...S/12vLEDHeadlamp.html&storeId=10001&langId=-1

Unfortunately my local NAPA doesn't stock 'em, so all I know about them is what's stated on the manufacturer's site.

EDIT: Forgot to mention that NAPA quoted them at $315 plus tax.

 

[salty_monk]

HID's are down to about $40 now. Would seem a good option for someone looking for extra capacity to power heated grips or similar....

A Silverstar bulb is $20.... what's 12000k look like?

Dan

 

[bakalorz]

The Silverstars last just as long as any other bulb. Not sure where you got the idea that they only last 1/10 as long. They are definitely great bulbs.

<snip>

I overstated the difference, Should have looked it up.

Its a little more than 1/2 the life of a regular bulb, or 1/3 to 1/4 of the life of an extra life bulb.

The article also explains the different kinds of "special" non-HID bulbs pretty well

Also, I agree they are worth getting.

 

[Steve]

.... what's 12000k look like?

If you are asking about the temperature equivalent that they use to rate the lights, it will be VERY purple.

All the hype about bulbs being more useful because they are closer to the color of daylight is just that, ... HYPE.

Look at it this way: if daylight were so good, why do we like our Blu-Blocker sunglasses?
Why do we use YELLOW glasses for shooting?
Why do we go to extra lengths to REDUCE the blue in daylight so we can see better?

Yes, you can see a blue light (especially an LED) a long way off, but the human eye is most sensitive to yellow that is ever so slightly green. The physics behind that is that the fluid in the eye scatters ultraviolet light, creating glare iinside the eye. Eliminating the UV (and a bunch of blue, in the process) reduces that glare, allowing you to see better.

For the most efficient color headlights, shoot for something not over 4000K. Anything more than that just starts throwing too much UV. Besides, objects show up better when lit with the same color. How much blue stuff is on the side of the road, compared to yellow and green? :-k

.

 

[salty_monk]

Interesting info - thanks!

 

[Guest]

The Silverstars last just as long as any other bulb. Not sure where you got the idea that they only last 1/10 as long. They are definitely great bulbs.

The N. American made Sylvania versions do have a reputation for poor longevity, even when installed in cars. I thought it was due to different quality standards, since I've been running the European Osram item for the past 3 years, with no problems. The Daniel Stern site has a technical reason for it.

[...Wait a Minute, Earlier You Said Silver Star Bulbs Have Blue Glass!

It's a name game: Osram, the well-established German lampmaker, sells a line of automotive bulbs they call "Silver Star". These are Osram's top-of-the-range headlamp bulbs, equivalent to Narva RangePower+50, GE Night Hawk, Philips VisionPlus, and Tungsram Megalight Premium. They produce the maximum legal amount of light while staying within legal power consumption limits. They have colorless clear glass.

Osram bought the well-established American lampmaker Sylvania in the early 1990s, so Osram is now Sylvania's parent company. Sylvania also sells a line of automotive bulbs they call "Silver Star", but it's not the same product. The Sylvania Silver Stars have blue glass. Light output is of legal levels, but as with all blue-filtered bulbs, you do not get more light from them. The Sylvania SilverStar bulbs have a very short lifetime, because the filament is overdriven to get a legal amount of light despite the blue glass.]

 

[ShortyzKustomz]

On the note of HIDs I have been thinking about that on my bike as well. I am currently running HIDs in all my vehicles, Even in my Silverado I have 6000k HIDs and they are pretty blue compared to most vehicles, but I have yet to be hasseled,or even a second glance, and I have LED parking and turn signals that match the color of my lights as well. I have been through tons of road checks etc. If I were to do them in a bike I would probably got with 5000k, even though I like the looks of the 6 better

I would never spend the money on brighter bulbs again, a dual pack of Silverstar Ultras are $50, and a HID kit for my truck off ebay is $50... hmm which one haha. I've bought 5 kits from the one company off there and have yet to have an issue

Personally I think my 6000ks look a little more blue... But its very hard to get it on camera

 

[TomE]

So it looks like I need to do a bit of experimentation, but a likely combo would be a 4000 degree 35 watt HID headlight (saves 20 watts) with perhaps a pair of 20 watt halogen driving lights (uses some of that 2 amps, or 24 watts we have to spare with the normal headlight).

I use a pair of 35 watt driving lights with my other bike, a '75 Gold wing, which works nicely, and have found that having one 35 watt light on is still acceptable. From that experience, I am thinking that a pair of 20 watt lights might work OK for the Suzuki. particularly if I also have a halogen headlight.

How does that sound? Or am I all wet?

Thanks

 

[Steve]

If I were to do them in a bike I would probably got with 5000k, even though I like the looks of the 6 better

I would never spend the money on brighter bulbs again, a dual pack of Silverstar Ultras are $50, and a HID kit for my truck off ebay is $50... hmm which one haha. I've bought 5 kits from the one company off there and have yet to have an issue.

Two things to address there.
1. The 5000K is probably about as high as I would go, I would rather stick to the 3500-4000 range. I learned long time ago that, as far as lighting is concerned, how it looks doesn't really matter. How I can see, however, is critical. As I mentioned in my previous post, all that blue in the light just creates glare inside the eye, making it appear to be brighter, but when you shine that light down the road, you really can't see any better. Since the eye is more responsive to yellow-ish light, why not use more of that? Not going so far as to use the yellow lights that are used for fog lights, but at least use lights that have some yellow to them.

2. No problem getting and using HID kits for four-wheelers. Most of them are made for that specific application and there is room to hide the ballast. On bikes, though, too many guys want to use the "HID look-alike" lights and either go with the very blue bulbs or a cheap HID element that replaces the bulb. But, since the arc in the HID capsule is not in the same location as the stock filament, light output and pattern are adversely affected, reducing the light to near-dangerous levels.

If there is a kit that has a quality HID light in a proper reflector that can be fitted to our bikes, please let us know. I am sure that several here might be interested.

.