Dual-Sport GS750

[witttom]

I know there will be many that will think I'm nuts for considering this (and maybe they're right), but I'm seriously contemplating a mild Dual-Sport conversion for my mild Cafe GS750.

But... before you pass judgment on my sanity, lemme explain WHY I would like to do this and my real intent.

Several years ago, I wanted to mount dual-sport tires on some of my street bikes, because I live in a rural area and some of the roads can get pretty crappy at times. I wasn't wanting to go full knobbies, but something like 95%/5% or 90%/10% On/Off. I never got around to it. Well, not until a couple years ago, I saw this photo:

That inspired me to mount a set of MT-series Pirelli 60%/40% (On/Off) Dual-Sport tires on my 99 Triumph Trophy 1200 (a 650lb Sport-Tourer). I actually mounted them on a spare set of rims so that I could swap them in and out as needed. I was expecting to give up some performance on dry pavement, but was extremely surprised that I really didn't give up much at all (particularly since I only had them mounted in the colder months and wasn't pushing it hard during that season anyway). The knobbie tread pattern did wonders for NOT kicking up the salt and sludge, and I ended up being overall impressed with how they worked out. Now don't get me wrong. This wasn't a true Dual-Sport. Nowhere near. In fact, I took it "Off Road" once and quickly discovered that it did not do well at all. The weight worked against it and I had no ground clearance. This biggest issue though, was the weight. Even with the weight working against me, the Dual-Sport tires made Winter riding much more manageable.

My Trophy with Dual-Sport tires mounted:

To add to this complex equation of putting a street bike in a "Dual-Sport" environment, I spent a little bit of time "Off Road" with my MZ Skorpion Traveller (a lightweight 660cc single Sport-Tour bike, leaning to the "Sport" side of things). I did this with Sport tires.

Mud, snow, creek crossing. It was slippery, but without the excessive weight, it was manageable.

So then I recently saw another pic that inspired me:

This photo makes me want to do something similar with my GS. Well, not quite as radical. I've taken my GS "Off Road" on a couple occasions (to get out of a traffic jam, across a construction area, down some sloppy muddy hills, down a gravel road, etc). It's not LIGHT by any means, but the seat is relatively low (in comparison to the sport-touring bikes I've gone dual-sporting with) and its manageable. I'd like to slap a set of Dual-Sport tires on a spare set of rims (I have a front spoked rim already lined up), and mount some dirt bike style handlebars (I have a brand new set hanging in my garage), and maybe some crash bars. It's a radical change from the cafe, but I think would open up a whole new world of fun possibilities and opportunities to explore. I like going down the road less traveled.

So... with all that said. Am I insane for thinking such thoughts? Hehe...

 

[Clone]

You would have to reposition the front fender and provide some protection for the oil cooler. If you have a set of engine guards they are a good idea, the rear wheel doesn't have a lot of clearance past the chain guard and the front of the swing arm, so watch for mud build up there.
Otherwise should be fairly easy to gain some clearance with spacers i the forks and longer rear shocks.

 

[Jd Powell]

He11-Yeah-Go-For-It. I've seen a couple nice dual purpose sportbikes, including a CBR 600 with matching D/P sidecar. Closest I've come personaly were two of my previous rides, '92 & 2000 KLR 650's. At 400+ pounds and with a 6 gal gas tank they were about as unweildy as a GS.:-D
The Dunlop D/P tires that come stock on the KLR's are amazing. I routinely ground the pegs on them to the point of having to move my inside foot back to the passenger peg.

 

[bwringer]

No you're not nuts.

I did a lot of research last winter into a similar conversion for a GS850G.

Now that's nuts.

(But no chain to clean...)

Ultimately, it didn't work out -- the bike I was going to convert was just too far gone to get running cheap. But I still would like to mount up a set of "knobblys" on a spare set of wheels sometime for my GS850G.

For a GS850G, the Kenda K761 is cheap, works fairly well by all accounts, and is available in 19" and 17" sizes that should fit (100/90-19 and 120/90-17 would be close enough for the rear). They are tube-only, but that's not a big deal:

(Dennis Kirk has them in the Dirt Bike section.)

YMMV, of course, depending on your bike's rim sizes and such. There are several more advanced DS tires out there.

 

[waterman]

I have to agree with the others, you might as well give it a go.

I find this discussion humorous since I have a decent dual sport (klx 650) and have had thoughts of making it a supermotard; thus more street orientated. Grass is greener...

Tires are relatively cheap, and bars will give you a little better control but you are still basically driving a pig through the slop. The high gearing, high weight, and limited ground clearance will be a handful in most offroad situations. How much do you like picking it up and pushing it through mud?

One other thing to consider is to get a gel battery so when things go wrong, you are not dumping battery acid all over your bike.

Why not purchase a dual sport and keep your 750 for the road? Look around and you can find a fairly beat up dual sport for cheap. Most are real simple to work on and a lot better in the muck.

 

[witttom]

Unexpectedly lost my job today, so it looks like I'm putting everything on hold until things get better. No GS750 DS conversion, no Dual-Sport purchases, notta. Now going into survival mode.

 

[mriddle]

Ouch .. sorry to hear about that.



Mike

 

[TheCafeKid]

WTF!! Damn Tom that sucks! Have any cooking experience? Im always lookin for good help. Money isnt great but its cash flow till ya can find another job in your field...not that i think you'd have any trouble, but gimmie a shout if ya need!

 

[GSWeergin]

Sorry to hear about the job! I was looking forward to your conversion, which is about the silliest, dumbest thing I've ever heard of and I highly encourage it!!
BTW, consider trials tires...

 

[trippivot]

you'll get a chance to do it. you were looking for a job when you found that one right??

I helped a buddy fit a extended swing arm and a sand paddle tyre on a cbr F2 took it to glamis dunes!! ever seen a bullet bike flying over the dune sands??

we were channeling seth enslow!! ha wish I had pictures to share!!

 

[witttom]

Dusting off an old thread....

After I lost my job several months back, I decided that it was probably best not to pursue this crazy idea because I would be spending money I probably shouldn't. However, over those past months I've been gradually stepping into that direction. I removed my dragbars (previously had clubmans on it, many moons ago), and installed a set of dirtbike bars. I liked this position so much, I decided at that point to keep moving in the Dual-Sport direction. I already had a wire-spoked front rim from the previous owner (I just had to go pick it up) and I recently bought a rear one from TheCafeKid. Last week I ordered a cheap set of Trials-style tires in nearly appropriate sizes. Tires, tubes, rim strips, shipping and taxes... a little less than $120. They arrived a few days ago, and I mounted them with the help of my neighbor and his tire machines.

Front wheel mounted late Saturday night. ...onto the rear on Sunday.

Disconnecting the rear shocks made the rear wheel swap SO MUCH easier. I have Jardine slipons mounted and they are a tight fit. Removing one side to get to the axle would have been just short of a nightmare (even though it sounds easy, it's not). Disconnecting the shocks was definitely the way to go.

Street Tire -vs- Trials Tire.

Mounted on the GS:

Sunday afternoon, my initial test ride down the street and back was... well, kinda scary. Felt like it wanted to push everywhere. I guess that's what I should expect, but I really didn't know WHAT to expect on pavement. I really need to take it easy for a while till I get used to them. It is radically different. I also took it offroad for a short bit. It still felt a bit "slippery" in the grass, but taking it up a dirt/rocky trail felt a little better. It's definitely not a dirtbike (duh), but I think I can go more places now. My bigger concern is the pavement.

I put another 15 miles or so on pavement Sunday evening. I don't know exactly how many, because two miles down the road my #*&fo?k!ng speedo cable brake. Dang it!! Looks like my fault to. When I put the front wheel back on, I think I rotated the speedo hub forward about 90? and put the cable in a bind. Dang it, dang it, dang it.

I'm slowly adapting to the radically different handling characteristics of the bike. ...and I do mean radical. I'm getting there though. It's hard to explain. It actually wants to turn in quicker. Probably because the rear tire has a greater circumference than the previous street tire, and the front is a bit smaller. But as you turn it, it is slow to react and wants to push out and move around a little on me. That's what kinda freaks me out... the drifitng around part. I can actually FEEL the knobbies going around a curve and I get some minor vibes going straight down the road. I'm too scared to lean into it TOO far, as I've noticed that I've already used to majority of the tire out to the edge of the tread. I'm not sure what it would do if I went beyond that, but I doubt it'll be good. Hehe...

They are a soft tire. Max pressure on them is only 32psi. I'm running somewhere around 28-30psi or so. I would think that increasing the pressure might help firm things up on the pavement a bit, but its not like I've got a whole lot to work with. Not sure if the extra 2spi will make much of a difference. Will it? Some of the local Dual-Sport guys (real DS guys, not idiots mounting dirt tires on a street bikes), tell me I should be dropping the pressure. I dunno. Guess I'm gonna hafta do some experimenting.

I'm definitely not gonna be dragging a knee or even a peg with these tires!

 

[bwringer]

Awesome!

Yeah, the knobbies will definitely "walk" on ya on pavement. Are those tires street legal (DOT approved)? It's OK -- we won't tell.

For the ultimate in insanity, order up some studs, so you can keep going when it gets icy:
http://www.aerostich.com/catalog/US/Self-Tapping-Carbide-Tire-Studs-p-19555.html



In a similar vein, I've just about worn out the Avon Storms on my VX800, and it's getting a set of Avon Distanzia dual-sport tires in a few weeks.

My GS850 is too nice to suffer the gawdawful corrosion from road salt that I put it through last winter, so the "pre-bashed" VX800 (painted engine, no polished parts, already crashed) will be getting most of the winter duty this year. I also need to rig up some sort of radiator cover so the engine will warm up and run decently when it's below freezing.

 

[witttom]

Awesome!

Yeah, the knobbies will definitely "walk" on ya on pavement. Are those tires street legal (DOT approved)? It's OK -- we won't tell.

For the ultimate in insanity, order up some studs, so you can keep going when it gets icy:
http://www.aerostich.com/catalog/US/Self-Tapping-Carbide-Tire-Studs-p-19555.html



In a similar vein, I've just about worn out the Avon Storms on my VX800, and it's getting a set of Avon Distanzia dual-sport tires in a few weeks.

My GS850 is too nice to suffer the gawdawful corrosion from road salt that I put it through last winter, so the "pre-bashed" VX800 (painted engine, no polished parts, already crashed) will be getting most of the winter duty this year. I also need to rig up some sort of radiator cover so the engine will warm up and run decently when it's below freezing.

Yes, they are actually DOT approved. That was one of my requirements when shopping for a suitable set of tires, as I knew the majority of miles would realistically be on the pavement and I wanted something relatively safe. There are probably some Non-DOT choices that would have done a better job, but who's to say?

I considered going with a Dual-Sport tire like the Distanzias or something similar (other comparable 90/10 or 80/20 on/off tires), but wanted to be as aggressive as I could without sacrificing the ability to still ride it on the street. When I started shopping though, I found that it was not that easy finding a suitable set of tires in my sizes. I ALMOST pursued a Trailwing on eBay (more of a 90/10 tire, often found on V-Stroms and the like) and mixed it with an offbrand tire with a very simular pattern, but just couldn't pull the trigger. I really REALLY liked the Dunlop D606's and the TKC80's (a 10% road, 90% offroad tire), especially after I saw them in person on a KTM Adventure 950 and saw how well they performed on the pavement, but those were very costly nor could I get either of them in the sizes that I needed. Only one in the front, the other for the rear. They were close enough where I think I could have mixed them without any issues, but they where 3X the cost of the Trials Tires. So, I went the cheap route and bought the Trials tires. Don't ask me what brand they are because I'm too ashamed to admit it. Hehe...

 

[waterman]

Great to see you are back at this. I know what you are going through with tires. I would always get more aggressive tires for my dual sport in hopes of not getting stuck in some of the sticky clay in our area. Unfortunately, the set of Kenda k270 50/50 tires were decent offroad but onroad gave me way too many pucker moments. It reacted like you described, practically falling into corners with a real vague feeling and then requiring extra bar pressure to maintain lean. This was quite different from the previous tires which gave great feedback and stuck like glue to pavement.

I have to add that these kendas were the tires that were on the bike when I hit an oily spot during my daily commute and I lowsided in busy intersection. Bike and myself were fine physically, mentally still am extremely reluctant to ride in the wet with this bike. Finally, this summer I purchased a set of tires that I had on previously. Back to the good solid tire feel with nearly unlimited lean angle. I am happy again. Offroad, I just need to stay on gas more in sticky stuff.

From the other dual sport group, the general feeling is that the pirelli mt21 is probably the best offroad DOT tire available. I have been using an inexpensive Duro median (hf903) with 4000 mile life. The problem you run into is finding a tire to fit the suzuki rims. Good luck and have some fun in the dirt!

 

[witttom]

Great to see you are back at this. I know what you are going through with tires. I would always get more aggressive tires for my dual sport in hopes of not getting stuck in some of the sticky clay in our area. Unfortunately, the set of Kenda k270 50/50 tires were decent offroad but onroad gave me way too many pucker moments. It reacted like you described, practically falling into corners with a real vague feeling and then requiring extra bar pressure to maintain lean. This was quite different from the previous tires which gave great feedback and stuck like glue to pavement.

The Kenda K270's was one of the original tires that I was considering, but some KLR650 friends insisted that they were horrible on the pavement, so I gave them a pass.

 

[drhach]

More free advice

More free advice

I've had a DR650 dual sport for a little while now. I just wanted to pass along some of the things I have learned. I use it for more dirt stuff than you probably intend to use your bike. As far as tires go, look around for 80/20 dual sport tires. You will find lots of recommendations out there. You don't have to spend a ton of money. 80/20 means 80% street 20% dirt. Get rid of those trials tires, even if they are.

There are tons of dual sport tires out there that handle just fine on the pavement and won't get all squirrelly like that. My DR handles like it's on rails with the knobby looking tires that I have. One thing to be aware of is that all dual sport tires stink on wet pavement. Some are better than others ,but non really compare to a good full-street tire. just be prepared for that.

Last of all, you will drop your bike. I repeat, you will drop your bike. That is part of the deal when you go off road. Just be prepared for it. Make sure that you can pick it up again. You are a brave man. I'm sure you'll have tons of fun.

 

[witttom]

I've had a DR650 dual sport for a little while now. I just wanted to pass along some of the things I have learned. I use it for more dirt stuff than you probably intend to use your bike. As far as tires go, look around for 80/20 dual sport tires. You will find lots of recommendations out there. You don't have to spend a ton of money. 80/20 means 80% street 20% dirt. Get rid of those trials tires, even if they are.

There are tons of dual sport tires out there that handle just fine on the pavement and won't get all squirrelly like that. My DR handles like it's on rails with the knobby looking tires that I have. One thing to be aware of is that all dual sport tires stink on wet pavement. Some are better than others ,but non really compare to a good full-street tire. just be prepared for that.

Last of all, you will drop your bike. I repeat, you will drop your bike. That is part of the deal when you go off road. Just be prepared for it. Make sure that you can pick it up again. You are a brave man. I'm sure you'll have tons of fun.

I have a set of Pirelli MT60's mounted on spare rims for my Triumph Trophy. I occasionally use these in Winter as my "Snow Tires". They are an 80/20 (on/off). Some suppliers refer to them as a 50/50 tire. They are an exceptionally good tire for wet pavement, and pavement that has some debri on it like sand and road grit after the snow has melted away. The amount of dry-pavement performance that they give up over a pure street tire is surprisingly (and almost unbelievably) minimal... and I'm talking edge-to-edge parts-draggin sort of riding too. They also do halfway decent offroad, but taking a 650lb Sport-Touring bike off the pavement is not something I would suggest to anyone. Hehe... but I've done it (and like to occasionally brag about it, hehe).

I wanted something MORE aggressive with the GS though. As mentioned before, I really liked the D606's and TKC80's. I know those handle well on the pavement but also have a very aggressive tread pattern for offroad use. ...but they're expensive. I was looking for a cheap alternative. Had I known that these Trials tires did not handle as well as I was hoping, I probably would have coughed up the extra cash and went with something else like those. But these were cheap (in comparison) so that's the route I took. Other brands/models would have cost me about 2x to 3x as much. Even though these were cheap, I'm still in it for about $120. I feel committed to making them work and can't bare the thought of yanking them off the rims, tossing them to the side, and starting all over again. I'm determined to make them work. Hehe... IF it gets to the point that I simply can't, then I'll strike it up as a lesson learned and bite the bullet on a different set. My gut tells me that it is just gonna take a little time for ME to adapt to THEM. Besides, with as soft as these tires are (and as heavy as the GS750 is)... I suspect they'll be gone in 2k-3k miles anyway. Hehe... here in Ohio, crappy road conditions have already started and it's only gonna get worse.

 

[drhach]

It sounds like you know what you're getting in to. Maybe you could try to sell the tires that
you have in order to get some of your money back. They basically have no miles on them. Just a thought.

 

[witttom]

Just a quick update. I've not had to chance to log any decent miles on my new tires up until this past Sunday. I was originally going to take this bike to go get the latest LocalRiders tag (landmark moto game), but when I was heading out it was still only about 30?F. The GS currently doesn't have a hookup for my 'Lectrics, so I took my new-to-me RS. When I got back, the GS was feeling a bit neglected and it had warmed up to about 45?F. So I hopped on it and started cranking. Battery was weak, which doesn't surprise me. It took about a half a dozen kicks and it started up no problem. I set out after another tag for a local scooter landmark game.

I had dropped the pressure in both tires and lowered my rear shocks. Within the first few miles out, I could already tell a difference. I took it on some fairly straight roads heading out and ran it up to an indicated 85mph. It felt quite stable all the way up through those speeds. On the way back, I took it down some of the tightest twisties in my area. I certainly would never expect to be dragging any knees with these tires, but they really weren't that bad. My short ride got stretched out into a longer ride, and by the time I got home I was feeling comfortable with the new tires and really wasn't even thinking about them anymore.

They obviously don't handle as well as the street tires, but they don't handle bad. Just different. With all the salt, dirt, and debri on the roads this time of year, these Dual-Sport style tires really seem to be quite appropriate for the conditions and appear to be the tires of choice right now. I was regretting it when I first hit the road with them (which I'm sure many could see my disappointment), but now that I'm ironing out the bugs, I'm glad I went down this path.

 

[bwringer]

Glad you got it sorted out!

There's a dirt road adventure ride afoot in Indiana December 6-7 if we just happen to catch a lucky break in the weather...
http://www.thegsresources.com/_forum/showthread.php?t=134608


Hmmm... :-k