GS1150 wheel on GS1000

[salty_monk]

I just fitted an 1100 swinger to my 1000 with a set of Works Performance Street trackers. All working nice.

Next step is the 1150 wheel. Looking at what I have now the brake side should be no problem. I need to finish up the modified brake stay & it'll be good...

On the drive side... I have about 10mm of space between chain & existing 130 tyre.

I have a 530 Chain on the shelf, width of that is about 25mm (X ring) which is about the same as the stock 630 O ring chain (there is about 10 thou difference).

So... How did others generate room for a 150 tyre or has this only been done on the 1100's?

I could think of a few things that I don't really want to do....

1. Thinner chain (Maybe even a 520 setup, the 520 XW chain I have on the shelf is 22mm). But I have a full set of 530 gear on the shelf....

2. Space out the sprocket slightly at the front & do the same at the rear. This usually has implications for using the lock washer etc but there should be room for 3mm with the 530 setup as usually you put 3mm on the outside. Next question is how to space the rear sprocket out by only 3mm (Get an old sprocket, cut it & then have it bench ground to suit would seem to be the best way...) and then is 3mm actually enough clearance to make this work...

3. Fit a 140 rear tyre instead of a 150... - obviously the path of least resistance here I guess!

 

[TheCafeKid]

What brand of tyre are you running? A different profile 150 may give you that clearance you need. I know you're doing it on 1000, but on my 1100 an AM26 was pointy enough I had no clearance issues chain side. However, I think if I'd had used something with a flatter profile I might have had some. It was close. What about an off set CS (like you said) and then having a small spacer made for the sprocket carrier or is that not an option. (don't have the parts in front of me and my mind doesn't work like that )

 

[salty_monk]

Yes... that's one of my options above. I was thinking of an AM26 most likely but they list as 153mm wide....

Remember what chain you had on the 1100? Perhaps the engine is further over in that bike so there is more room?

 

[TheCafeKid]

Yes... that's one of my options above. I was thinking of an AM26 most likely but they list as 153mm wide....

Remember what chain you had on the 1100? Perhaps the engine is further over in that bike so there is more room?

530 setup. RK if I recall correctly. You may very well be right as far as the engine offset in the frame.

 

[trippivot]

isn't going from a 130 to a 150 only a difference of 10mm on each side?

maybe just hazing edge of the tire with the chain ? line it up and see.

 

[John Kat]

There is one issue when fitting an 1150 wheel ( both the 3" and the 3.5") to a GS 1000 or GS 1100 : the wheel will be offset to the right by approximately 4 mm if you use the standard Gs 1000 spacers.
To fix it you need to machine the left hand spacer by 4mm and add an equal amount on the right hand side.
You will now notice that the sprockets don't align anymore...
I had to add a 4 mm spacer behind the front sprocket to get it to work.
I'm not sure the 150 tire would fit without moving the chain further left.
On my GS 1000 S I have a 140/80*17 BT 45 tire and there is not much room left but I could measure it tomorrow in the day light if you wish?

 

[blowerbike]

i have done a couple of these and the drive side is the same.
rotor side(wheel hub) is narrower.
i don't see the 1000 frames being offset any different.
look look and look some more.
this should work fine with minimal effort.
josh had a 530 chain on his.
if you could find a brake stay like i sold josh that would be a good deal.
i seen one a while back in the classifieds here.

 

[salty_monk]

Brake stay side is fine. I have that sorted and have generated 9mm extra room that side so plenty of clearance.

I too have measured the drive side as being the same but I guess the rim could be 4mm offset to the hub, I'll have to measure it. When I test fit it in the frame without a tyre on it certainly looked central...

I measured that I need an additional 2mm spacer on the brake side which seems to line up with Josh's findings.

On the chain side - yes it looks like I have 10mm and that's what I need but doesn't allow for deflection when the tyre compresses.

The Avon website quotes the 130 as being 140mm wide and the 150 as being 156mm wide.

I also thought about fitting the Azaro ST radials but the front rim is a bit undersized (2.15 and Avon suggest 2.5 as the min. Also they are expensive...!)

 

[John Kat]

Brake stay side is fine. I too have measured the drive side as being the same but I guess the rim could be 4mm offset to the hub, I'll have to measure it.

That's exactly the case.
What's strange is that the 1150 wheel goes right in with 1000 spacers AND the chain lines up no problem BUT... the wheel is offset to the right
I discovered this by riding two up on my Kat 1100 when the tire made contact on the right hand side when going over bumps...

 

[salty_monk]

John,

If you could measure the space you have left over from your 140 that would be great.

I can see why you wouldn't necessarily spot 4mm until something like this came up. Seems strange though as Josh was riding regularly 2 up (he's not a small guy either) and and with a 150 tyre so if anyone should have been touching it should have been him.

Tyre manufacturer and model info would also be good.

Thanks,

Dan

 

[John Kat]

Will definitely do tomorrow.
What might help as I had asked in my own post on the same subject is to know the width of a GS 1150 swingarm at the rear wheel axle level or more accurately the width of all the components that fit on the axle between the swingarm.
Knowing this we could compare that length with the equivalent with GS 1000 components.
I believe the conclusions would then be obvious.

 

[John Kat]

Good news!
The 150 tire will fit easily on an 1150 3" wide rear wheel.
I've taken a few pictures with a 12 mm drill between the tire and the chain on one side and the undercut brake stay on the other side.
The tire on the pictures is a Bridgestone BT 45 in 140/80*17 dimension.

Don't forget the wheel is offset 4 mm to the left !

 

[John Kat]

I took the opportunity of this discussion on a GS 1150 wheel on a GS 1000/ GS 1100 to determine if I would face the same offset issue if I used a GSX R 1100 1st gen 18 by 4 inch wheel that I'm planning to use on my 1100 Kat.
In fact there is one very easy way to determine if there is any offset.
The idea is to measure the clearance with the swingarm both with the wheel in it's normal position and then to measure it again with the wheel reversed.
The good news is that the GSX R wheel with it's own spacers fits perfectly and the offset is about 1 mm...
Here are some pictures

As I don't have a GS 1150 wheel without a tire on, I would appreciate getting the data by using this method.

 

[salty_monk]

B*gger... If I'd have thought about this last week it would have taken me about 10mins. Right now I have the 2.5" wheel on there so it will take a bit longer!

John - One thing that crossed my mind. You are using the 3" 1150 wheel (taken from your 2nd to last post). What I have & I believe what Josh used is the later 3.5" wheel. It's possible there could be a difference between the two....

I will do some measuring asap. I think the same might be achieved by measuring from the bearing face to the lip of the wheel on each side & then if necessary measuring the spacers. I think I have enough measuring gear to do it this way. I haven't thought it through 100% as yet but I will let you know.

 

[TheCafeKid]

Brake stay side is fine. I have that sorted and have generated 9mm extra room that side so plenty of clearance.

I too have measured the drive side as being the same but I guess the rim could be 4mm offset to the hub, I'll have to measure it. When I test fit it in the frame without a tyre on it certainly looked central...

I measured that I need an additional 2mm spacer on the brake side which seems to line up with Josh's findings.

On the chain side - yes it looks like I have 10mm and that's what I need but doesn't allow for deflection when the tyre compresses.

The Avon website quotes the 130 as being 140mm wide and the 150 as being 156mm wide.

I also thought about fitting the Azaro ST radials but the front rim is a bit undersized (2.15 and Avon suggest 2.5 as the min. Also they are expensive...!)

Dan, you'll wanna double check your spacer on the brake side. At first blush it looks like a simple 2-3mm spacer will do it, but what happens is when you torque the axle nut down you'll run out of thread before it squishes everything tight. Then when you hit the rear brake it will pull the wheel to the caliper and pucker your bum something fierce

I don't recall exactly, but to keep the caliper centered over the rotor you must shim both inboard and outboard of the hanger. I seem to remember it being somewhere around 20 thousandths inboard and 50 thou outboard? Maybe Terry will remember the numbers more precisely, but a simple shim won't do it quite right.

 

[TheCafeKid]

Also, is there enough lip support on these to run a radial? It never occurred to me to ask when I did it. Is the 83 GS1100E (matching spoke pattern, 19" wheel) wider? I seem to remember it being 2.25 but I may be wrong. You could try a 700/750 wheel. They'll run a 120 front without pinch so I'd imagine they'd have to be wider. But they're only 16" so that wouldn't work huh...?

 

[blowerbike]

the 1150 3" & 3.5" are the same except for the width.
in the states the 84 ES came with the 3".
the 85E-ES/86E had the 3.5" rim.

 

[blowerbike]

i do not recall the exact amounts we added but it can vary as the swing arm is bowed out quite a bit.
it took spacers on both sides of the caliper hanger if i recall correctly.
adding to just one side let the caliper be off center and the rotor would grind the hanger and or caliper.

 

[John Kat]

B*gger... If I'd have thought about this last week it would have taken me about 10mins. Right now I have the 2.5" wheel on there so it will take a bit longer!

John - One thing that crossed my mind. You are using the 3" 1150 wheel (taken from your 2nd to last post). What I have & I believe what Josh used is the later 3.5" wheel. It's possible there could be a difference between the two....

I will do some measuring asap. I think the same might be achieved by measuring from the bearing face to the lip of the wheel on each side & then if necessary measuring the spacers. I think I have enough measuring gear to do it this way. I haven't thought it through 100% as yet but I will let you know.

In fact I have both versions of the 1150 wheel.
The 3" version on my GS 1000 ST and the 3.5" on my GS 1100 SZ Kat.
Both have the offset...
I got to the 4 mm offset ( on the 3" wheel) by using the method you describe above but it's a pain to do and I'm concerned about the accuracy.

 

[GSexpress]

The bearing spacing on the 1150 wheel is narrower than on the 1000 wheel. ( the distance from the outside of the left bering surface to the outside of the right bearing surface.) The only way to compensate for that properly is to use spacers on each side of the wheel at the bearing. Inside the brake mount and inside the cush drive hub. 2 - 3 MM each side. This lines up both the brake stay and the sproket and keeps the wheel centered.. If you need to off set the chain side more for tire clearence, you need to add more to the spacer at the bearing and cut the same amount off of the stock spacer on that side as well as add the same off set to the drive sprocket. No more than another 4 MM or you'll end up with too much slop in the cush drive. Another trick for stuffing in a wider tire that I used for racing was to trim some rubber off of the edge of the tire. But keep in mind it takes some skill and presision. Tire cutting has become a lost art. I used to make my own rain tires from slicks, and custom cut my dirt knobbies, for racing purposes back in the day.