Headless intake boot screws

[Guest]

I was trying to extract the intake boot screws, for one of the boots. I snapped both the heads of the screws.

It now looks like this:

Where do I go from here? I could drill into the centre of the bolts and try the stick extractor but I haven't had any luck with that on these. I did use penetrating oil, but it does not seem to really help.

Do I just helicoil it? Learn how to weld? Somehow drill it out without damaging the threads? Something else?

I was planning on riding tonight, but I guess that will be challenging.

 

[Brendan W]

Patience. They don't look at all bad. Keep trying the penetrating fluid in there for a few days if you have to. Hot air gun worth a shot as well.
A slight tap with a hammer might help break the corrosion and a slot with a dremel will let you get a wide screwdriver on there.

 

[storm 64]

First, go to church, then help a old lady across the street, call your mom and tell her you love her... When you have done all that. Heat the area around the broken bolt, I mean really heat it up with a torch. Get a good set of Vice Grips it looks like there's just enough to grab on to. Work it in, then out a little at a time. Then hopefully you can break it loose. If that doesn't work you'll have to drill it out...

 

[Nessism]

I'd weld a nut onto the nub. Looks like there is plenty of nub sticking out. The welding heat will help break down the corrosion holding the bolt. If it still doesn't feel like moving I'd heat the nut/nub red hot using a torch and then let it cool. Use lots of spray oil on it too.

 

[Guest]

I have sprayed it now several times with penetrating oil, and it seems like there is rust spraying out when I do so, I figure this is a good sign, that the penetrating oil is finding rust and dissolving it.

I bought a wider flathead, and screw extractor bolts for 3/8" (and a 3/8 ratchet...). I think they might have some magical bolt extractor tool too. I will spray more on it tomorrow.

Is torch a lot better than heat gun?

I do not know how to weld, it seems you can get an electric welding apparatus for almost nothing, is this my time to learn?

Edit: The o-ring inside was made of square plastic, but was otherwise complete. Not rubbery like my new kit.

 

[salty_monk]

They do look like square plastic after 40years!

Keep going... back and forth. You really don't want to have to drill it out if you don't want to.

If you have or can get hold of a welder then that's probably the best way... there was a post on here of someone using their battery as a rudimentary stick welder, that would likely work to fix a nut on here although I haven't tried it myself. It doesn't need to be neat here, you are just going for strong!

 

[Big T]

As Brendan said, be patient

And, DO NOT use bolt extractors

If you think you need to drill it out, get some reverse twist drill bits

I use my rotary tool with a small engraving ball to create a divot directly on center, then start with the smallest bit and drill in 1/2" or so. Then, use progressively larger bits and drill deeper. Usually, the bolt will spin out and leave perfect threads to put the new bolt in.

 

[2BRacing]

Another vote to go for welding a nut on instead of drilling. The problem with drilling those bolts while the engine is still in the bike, is that the space is limited and it is difficult to drill straight into the center of the bolt.

Also another vote to NOT use a screw extractor - if it breaks off in the bolt, you really have a big problem because the extractor is so hard that you cannot drill it out.

I suggest you ask around for a person who is a competent welder to help you out on this one, because the risk of doing more damage is just too great. Worst case scenario is having to remove the head so that a machine shop can do the repair, and removal of the head means replacement of the base gasket as well; and .....; and ...; and .... - you get the picture!

I hope you get this sorted out so that you can continue riding soon and taking those awesome photos of your beautiful landscape!

 

[Guest]

They do look like square plastic after 40years!

Keep going... back and forth. You really don't want to have to drill it out if you don't want to.

If you have or can get hold of a welder then that's probably the best way... there was a post on here of someone using their battery as a rudimentary stick welder, that would likely work to fix a nut on here although I haven't tried it myself. It doesn't need to be neat here, you are just going for strong!

It seems a welding apparatus is like $100 to 150 for the low end. I wonder if it would be worth it to just be rid of this problem. After these two are dealt with, I have 6 more... I seem to have found an effective way of snapping the heads off though, which makes access for penetrating oil a lot better. I have never welded anything though. But welding a nut to a bolt is probably not the most challenging thing to do.

 

[fbody_mike]

I also will throw my 2cents in for welding a nut on it. I have save countless threads from broken bolts like this with a welder, even when the bolt was broken below the surface. A cheap Flux core MIG will do the job, and does not take too long to get the hang of it. Plus you will find other uses for a welder besides other broken bolts.
My suggestion if you get a welder to do this.
Grab a box of nuts from the hardware store. A novice welder will make some weak welds to start and I bet many will not hold the broken bolt. Just toss the nut, grab a new one and try to weld it on again. Getting the stinger on the broken bolt can be hard sometimes and the weld will pool into the nut and not really penetrate the stud. After it gets red hot from the weld, let it cool, hit it with some oil, the slowly tighten and loosen the nut until you feel the studs move, then take it slow to remove the stud. It is easy to break the stud again, this time deeper in the engine.

 

[hampshirehog]

It looks like you might have enough sticking out to grab with a pair of mole grips. If there is I'd try heating and giving them a go first.

 

[Guest]

Is the Stanley Sirio 140 adequate for my use? It comes with a mask and has 140 volts/amps/whatever and can weld 1.6 to 3.2 mm.

It looks like you might have enough sticking out to grab with a pair of mole grips. If there is I'd try heating and giving them a go first.

I will give that another try tomorrow after the penetrating oil has had some time to penetrate. If not I guess I will become a welder.

 

[salty_monk]

That's a stick welder. You'd be better off with a mig welder if you are going to buy something..... flux core would be ok for this (and you can add gas later to most flux core setups if you want to do something more accurate/prettier).

What brands do you have available there? Something like the cheapest Clarke welder here would do it.. https://www.machinemart.co.uk/c/diy-mig-welders/

We have cheap ones here in the US too https://www.harborfreight.com/search?q=mig welder

I guess you should google "flux core Mig welder" & see what comes up

 

[storm 64]

Norway? Dang Noreg, I'd love to be able to come over and give you a hand but Norway is a little out of my range. Maybe not for Steve though, he's been known to go on road calls.

 

[Nessism]

There has got to be some welders in your area. Rent a truck or trailer and haul the bike to them. A lot of welders have a truck and bring the job to you too.

 

[Guest]

I figure I might have to deal with the other boots, I should probably just get all of them out or broken off. I will try with the heat gun when I am off in a few hours. I have been using penetrating oil on it. I have proper jis impact bits, but I dont understand how that helps for the middle screws.

I tried taking them off with the strange locking kind of pliers and two other kinds, they do not bulge.

That's a stick welder. You'd be better off with a mig welder if you are going to buy something..... flux core would be ok for this (and you can add gas later to most flux core setups if you want to do something more accurate/prettier).

What brands do you have available there? Something like the cheapest Clarke welder here would do it.. https://www.machinemart.co.uk/c/diy-mig-welders/

We have cheap ones here in the US too https://www.harborfreight.com/search?q=mig welder

I guess you should google "flux core Mig welder" & see what comes up

https://www.biltema.no/en-no/tools/welding/welding-machines/welding-unit-mig-90-2000022912

This one is MIG, I don't think it comes with a mask. And it says no gas. But I don't think pretty matters, and my gas tank isn't rusty enough. Getting one with gas is more than twice that, and what else would I weld?

Norway?樂 Dang Noreg, I'd love to be able to come over and give you a hand but Norway is a little out of my range. Maybe not for Steve though, he's been known to go on road calls. 

Yeah, I am all alone here.

There has got to be some welders in your area. Rent a truck or trailer and haul the bike to them. A lot of welders have a truck and bring the job to you too.

Two houses down the street there is two dry docks, they weld all the time. Not sure if they have mig welders though, boats are a bit big. I have some former students that are welders, not sure if they have the apparatus though. My dad is a heavy machinery mechanic, if he comes to town he could weld I assume.

I have a trailer at work, I just would have to find the nose wheel stop-thing. It might be in the bike garage there. But I'm not sure where to take it. I am sure the bike shop or any car repair place will do it, but likely at $100 per hour. The bike shop would also let me wait forever for it. I am not sure how hard welding is though. It would likely cost about the same to just buy a welding apparatus and do it myself. I watched like two youtube videos and it looks pretty simple.

But I need to figure out what to do with the remaining screws. I got my impact driver bits today, tried it on the other end but its not budging, will try with heat when my lecture is over.

 

[Guest]

On second thought the Awelco Mig One seems like a better machine.

 

[Guest]

I recruited a friend to do it, he has done this before. But not sure when he will have the time.

 

[salty_monk]

That mig is a little lower powered than ideal.... I didn't see the other one. Preferably you want a 130, ideally a 160

You can always add a regulator & gas to a flux core model later.... Most manufacturers sell a kit (or you can piece it together).

 

[Guest]

That mig is a little lower powered than ideal.... I didn't see the other one. Preferably you want a 130, ideally a 160

You can always add a regulator & gas to a flux core model later.... Most manufacturers sell a kit (or you can piece it together).

My friend did the welding for me, he had a 185 amp/whatever mig with gas.

My wife brushing off the screws to make them ready to be welded.

One of them came out volunterly, the seven other we broke the heads and welded.

So my bike is now free of broken rusty screws.

Edit:
If anyone can explain me how the three yellow wires attaches to the three differently colored ones that would be great. They were labeled 1, 2 and 3 (the yellow ones).