HELP, any electrical gurus.

[Guest]

I've been testing the charging on the bikes we get at our shop as part of my inspections. I've noticed that the Gixxers and Busa systems haven't been meeting factory spec. of 14-15.5v @ 5,000 rpm per manual. I've been getting 13.8v to 14v at idle, with not much change increasing the rpm. That should be enough to keep the battery charged, but it isn't what the manual calls for. Everything tests ok, stator AC voltage reaches 100VAC on all three legs and no ground, R/R diodes act normal, one direction only and all reading are close to each other, and no load running voltage test gives 1.2v also at spec, but there is a milliamp draw greater than spec. I've tried three new R/R on the bike in question below, with no change in the results. I tested another bike at work today, just to see if it had a greater than spec 3mA, current draw and it did and I also only got around 13.8-14v at battery. So I've ran into the following and can't figure it out. I'm not the brightest at electricity, actually it hurts my head sometime, but I can follow directions and chase things down. Just for everyones info I'm using the same Bluepoint multimeter, that I used at MMI.


A 600 Gixxer at work that we sold recently, has a 9.8 milliamp draw. At first I thought the culprit was the GPS they have me install and it does have a draw, so that was the first thing I removed. The bike came back, complaining of dying while riding. I didn't know this when I first started working on it, I was just told that this afternoon. I thought it was dying from battery drain. So after replacing the battery and testing the R/R and three others(above), I've isolated the draw to the Red/Blue wire that runs from the fuel fuse to the instrument panel with a branch wires off to the fuel relay and another to the ECU. Pulling the fuse ends the draw. Disconnecting the front sub harness from the main harness, ends the draw. Pulling the ECU and fuel relay does nothing.

I've pulled the R/B wires out of both sides of the sub harness and main harness multi pin connectors(MPC), so I could isolate them from the rest of the harness and no draw. I reconnect the R/B wires with a test wire, but not the rest(MPC) and the draw returns, so it seems to be nothing to do with the rest of the sub harness. Checking the sub R/B wire to all other wires at gauge cluster connector and wiring harness MPC, shows no continuity from the R/B wire to any other wire. That should show there is no short in the sub harness. Also with the neg battery cable reconnected, R/B sub wire reconnected to the main R/B wire, shows no voltage is present at any other wire at the MPC or gauge cluster connector, so again I don't think there is a short in the sub harness.

If the MPC is reconnected and I disconnect the gauge cluster, the draw leaves, but I've tried another gauge cluster with no change, the draw is still present. So I don't think the gauge cluster is the problem. If I turn the key to on(not running) with the MPC connected, the gauge lights up but no read out, so R/B seems to supply it with some power, but it's not the only source, when the R/B wire is reconnected, the needle cycles and the digital readout returns. This seems to be a necessary thing, so I don't understand why there is a larger than 3 milliamp factory spec.


Sorry if any of this is confusing, I've been at this thing off and on for a few days. This draw is driving me nuts, to my brain it just doesn't register. Tomorrow I get to reconnect everything, button it up and take it for a ride to see if it leaves me stranded in triple digit weather. Lucky me. Any ideas will be greatly appreciated.

 

[GregT]

First thing I'd do is confirm your readings with another multimeter...
Very surprised your voltage readings don't rise appreciably with revs - never struck a Suzuki that didn't even if the R/R was sick.

 

[BurntKittyForge]

I'm in no way an electrical "guru" but had to dig into my old favorites to find a good link:
http://www.hotrod.com/articles/top-10-electrical-fixes/

Maybe something there will be helpful(?)
Dunno whether bikes use a ground rather than two wires even,(?) could've sworn I noticed one on my '93 Suzuki one time and it looked a little surface rusty. It was when I first got it though and I haven't located it again.
Corroded/burnt wires& connections are similar to bad grounds I think...

I get mad that they don't have like an upgrade for whatever vehicles where one could pay extra for like the $3 worth of copper to get decent wiring that will last I mean it's a WT.....!!!!!!!!!!!

Oh, one more link:http://www.autotap.com/techlibrary/diagnosing_battery_charging_iginition_system.asp
Don't know whether it'll help but can't hurt(was in my favorites from studying my truck is all).

Good Luck, Hope to read some replies from Gurus actually and pick up some tips too!

 

[Guest]

First thing I'd do is confirm your readings with another multimeter...
Very surprised your voltage readings don't rise appreciably with revs - never struck a Suzuki that didn't even if the R/R was sick.

It fluxuates. it will hit just over 14v but that's at idle. I'll bring an analog meter with me to try. My Bluepoint is the only digital meter I have.
This is the MM I am using.

 

[Guest]

Should I be switching the positive test to the milliamp hole? I broke out my notes from MMI and It looks like current draw is done with the leads in the normal voltage locations, but this is with using a shunt cable.

 

[Steve]

Looking at the wiring diagram, what does the R/B wire do?

I don't know what to say about the milliamp draw, but the voltage is nothing to worry about. I know it's "apples to oranges", but I hada Toyota pickup for many years that never saw over 14 volts. In fact, it was usually running just under 13.5, especially when the lights were on, which was virtually all the time. My only evidence that it was not a problem is that the original battery that came with the truck lasted just over 7 years before it needed to be replaced.

Technically (and chemically) speaking, anything over 13 volts will charge the battery. The question is 'how completely and how quickly'.

.

 

[yank]

OK, well, first, the meter in the diagram is connected incorrectly. The display shows mV, and the leads are connected to the voltage/resistance jacks. The two lefthand jacks are for measuring current -- the far left is for larger current flows (Amps), and the next one is for much smaller current flows such as what you're trying to find, mA-level or less. Your function dial probably has a position that matches the lead socket, i.e. Amps, & mA or uA. (The black lead remains plugged into the COM socket).

When in doubt, always start with the larger setting (far left). If it's small enough, you can switch over to the low current setting for a more accurate reading.

I have no idea what the dark path on the circuit diagram is supposed to be; everything else is correct, i.e. putting the meter in series with the load to measure 'parasitic' (maintenance) current draw.

IMO, whoever got paid to draw that diagram should be slapped twice. This can be confusing enough for beginners without glaring errors in the manual.

That's why they call them technicians now (or parts changers) If the scanners can't narrow the problem down just keep changing parts till it's fixed. Anyone know where to hook the scanner to my Carbs, you know the thingy that meters my fuel! I would download the Manuel for that meter and not use the textbook from MMI. I believe robertbarr is correct.

 

[robertbarr]

Should I be switching the positive test to the milliamp hole? I broke out my notes from MMI and It looks like current draw is done with the leads in the normal voltage locations, but this is with using a shunt cable.

Yes, you should. Also select the mA position on the function dial.

You can ignore the shunt diagram they show you; it's for measuring really large current flows. It's correct in that you'd have to disconnect a battery terminal and put the meter in series with the load.

 

[Guest]

Yes, you should. Also select the mA position on the function dial.

You can ignore the shunt diagram they show you; it's for measuring really large current flows. It's correct in that you'd have to disconnect a battery terminal and put the meter in series with the load.

Yeah I thought of that sleeping last night. I broke out my notes to see if I was correct in switching the the leads, but that was the only reference I can find for current draw. I have been using mA selection, but I wasn't switching the test leads. I may have been chasing a ghost for nothing, but then what is drawing the battery down if the R/R is producing enough voltage, but not fact. spec. charging voltage, when running?

 

[Guest]

That thick black line in the diagram, represents an 18" long battery cable. That's the only reference I could find for current draw.

 

[Guest]

Looking at the wiring diagram, what does the R/B wire do?

I don't know what to say about the milliamp draw, but the voltage is nothing to worry about. I know it's "apples to oranges", but I hada Toyota pickup for many years that never saw over 14 volts. In fact, it was usually running just under 13.5, especially when the lights were on, which was virtually all the time. My only evidence that it was not a problem is that the original battery that came with the truck lasted just over 7 years before it needed to be replaced.

Technically (and chemically) speaking, anything over 13 volts will charge the battery. The question is 'how completely and how quickly'.

.

I can't copy the wiring diagram from the PDF, but it supplies voltage to the Fuel Pump relay it also goes to the ECU and up to the gauge cluster. In the cluster it seems to provide the power to the LCD and tach gauge as neither comes on without it being hooked up. There is nothing on the gauge internals in the manual.

Anything over 13v is what I thought, but not seeing the 14v-15.5 had me worried, I get those reading from other manufacturers, just not these Suzukis we have here, well the ones I tested yesterday. Two different '06 GSXR600 and an '06 Busa. They all gave me around 13.8 even the (cheap) new R/R my boss got off eBay. I say cheap as I don't know exactly what he paid for them but he bought a few since Suzuki has this reputation and I know they aren't from Ricks or factory R/Rs.

 

[Guest]

That's why they call them technicians now (or parts changers) If the scanners can't narrow the problem down just keep changing parts till it's fixed. Anyone know where to hook the scanner to my Carbs, you know the thingy that meters my fuel! I would download the Manuel for that meter and not use the textbook from MMI. I believe robertbarr is correct.

I work at an independent resale shop(used bikes). No scanners and no computers, except my laptop. So am I a mechanic or technician? I don't wear a lab coat, so I never felt like a technician.

 

[yank]

I work at an independent resale shop(used bikes). No scanners and no computers, except my laptop. So am I a mechanic or technician? I don't wear a lab coat, so I never felt like a technician.

Sorry I was under the impression you went to MMI. To answer your question working on modern engines I would consider one to be a tech, on older engines mechanic. I would value the back yard Joey mechanic any day over the tech.

 

[Guest]

Sorry I was under the impression you went to MMI. To answer your question working on modern engines I would consider one to be a tech, on older engines mechanic. I would value the back yard Joey mechanic any day over the tech.

I did go to MMI, so I could get up to date on modern bikes. I'm Suzuki, Kawasaki and BMW certified and want to own my own shop soon. Just getting the experience and knowledge of working on everything and some of the business side of things first. Slowly getting up the equipment also. The pay sucks for now, hopefully that will change in my own shop. Thiss is a late in life career change thing, I was a caregiver for 27 years, got burnt out, now I get to sweat and hurt my brain on electrical stuff , which my brain has told me, it doesn't like.

 

[bobgroger]

I did go to MMI, so I could get up to date on modern bikes. I'm Suzuki, Kawasaki and BMW certified and want to own my own shop soon. Just getting the experience and knowledge of working on everything and some of the business side of things first. Slowly getting up the equipment also. The pay sucks for now, hopefully that will change in my own shop. Thiss is a late in life career change thing, I was a caregiver for 27 years, got burnt out, now I get to sweat and hurt my brain on electrical stuff , which my brain has told me, it doesn't like.

Good for you. I was a mid life career changer as well, switching from electronics tech to self-employed IT guy. Been self employed for 19 years now, never going back to a real job. And thank you for being a caregiver, it is a hard, sad job.

Is there a chance you can run it until it dies and measure the actual battery voltage to see if it is actually flat? A 9ma or more draw is normal for most computerized vehicles, to keep the ECU powered up, with that draw a 14AH battery should keep enough charge to start the bike for months. The thing with Electronics is that if you start down the wrong path, it is almost always a dead end. Step back and take another look with a fresh mind. It's still fuel, air, spark.

 

[Guest]

I think the problem was the owners BS and an old undersized battery. It had a 7 and they call for a 9. The owner said it was new, the BS part. I tried charging it twice and it boiled both times. Small trickle and a large charger set at 10 amp. I wasn't told about the bike draining while riding, so I was chasing a static draw. I was testing for the draw wrong by not switching the pos. test lead to mA outlet. I'm going to check the voltage and ride around the area of the shop for about an hour and see it the voltage dropped. If nothing changes in voltage it's out the door. Not getting information directly from the owner causes trouble too many times. My boss and our salesman doesn't ask the right questions and/or doesn't relay the info. to me correctly. They try to keep me separated for the customers. "Can't have you giving free information", is what I'm told, plus I'm honest, so that may compromise the work order.