• Required reading for all forum users!!!

    Welcome!
    Register to access the full functionality of the GSResources forum. Until you register and activate your account you will not have full forum access, nor will you be able to post or reply to messages.

    A note to new registrants...
    All new forum registrations must be activated via email before you have full access to the forum.

    A Special Note about Email accounts!
    DO NOT SIGN UP USING hotmail, outlook, gmx, sbcglobal, att, bellsouth or email.com. They delete our forum signup emails.

    A note to old forum members...
    I receive numerous requests from people who can no longer log in because their accounts were deleted. As mentioned in the forum FAQ, user accounts are deleted if you haven't logged in for the past 6 months. If you can't log in, then create a new forum account. If you don't get an error message, then check your email account for an activation message. If you get a message stating that the email address is already in use, then your account still exists so follow the instructions in the forum FAQ for resetting your password.

    Have you forgotten your password or have a new email address? Then read the forum FAQ for details on how to reset it.

    Any email requests for "can't log in anymore" problems or "lost my password" problems will be deleted. Read the forum FAQ and follow the instructions there - that's what we have one for...

  • Returning Visitors

    If you are a returning visitor who never received your confirmation email, then odds are your email provider is blockinig emails from our server. The only thing that can be done to get around this is you will have to try creating another forum account using an email address from another domain.

    If you are a returning visitor to the forum and can't log in using your old forum name and password but used to be able to then chances are your account is deleted. Purges of the databases are done regularly. You will have to create a new forum account and you should be all set.

  • In order to help others find info on a particular bike, be sure to put the year, make or model of bike that you are asking a question about, in the Topic Title. This will allow people to pass by posts they have no interest in.

Interesting title problem, need some opinions

  • Thread starter Thread starter miked
  • Start date Start date
M

miked

Guest
so I'm considering buying another race bike and getting back on the track. I find a viable Suzuki 600 at a decent price. With racebikes you have to be willing accept that you may wad the bike into a ball of metal, rubber, and plastic and then be able walk away from it without any remorse. The bike fits the criteria.

So I'm talking by phone to the owner. Bike is being sold with a bill of sale only. I ask about the status of the title, and it comes out that he is the 2nd owner. Bought it from the original owner who purchased the bike via a bank loan. Original owner lowsided the bike and tore the fairings all up, and then sold it to 2nd owner with bill of sale only and money still due on the bank loan. Bank filed a lien on the bike.

Who owns the bike? It would seem that the bank does given the lien against the bike. But money has changed hands, yet the original owner is still liable for the bank note and the outstanding balance of the loan. Is this akin to buying stolen goods? I'm probably going to walk away from this, plenty of race bikes out there - but the lien/liability/ownership question has been rattling around in my head and I'm not clear on the precedence.

To help seal the decision, apparently in CA if you have a bike in the open bed of your truck and get pulled over they can run the tags on the bike (but not if bike is in an enclosed trailer), I'd guess that the tags would come back with a bank lien and law enforcement would seize the bike. I'm willing to total the bike on the track and walk away from it, but not losing the bike in a seizure. Defrauding anyone isn't really my thing either, and I appreciate the current "owner" being up front about the title. I've bought more than a few bikes in really weird situations before, but this deal kinda resets the bar a bit.
 
I'm going to be of zero help here because I don't know CA law, but in Michigan, title issues really only matter if you plan to register the bike (i.e., get a license plate). Although I wonder what would happen if the original owner paid off the lien and then went through the courts to try to get the bike back...

My situation is different than yours, but my rule of thumb is still this: The title is the thing that proves ownership. If you don't have the title, you don't own the bike.
 
In Missouri, that is considered an invalid sale. You have no right to the bike, even if you paid for it. In my opinion, that is as it should be. It belongs to the bank.
 
It would belong to the bank , and if for some reason they found out you had it, they would have legal right to it. I see this happen a few years ago at the track. A fellow racer had a loan on a bike , sold to another racer without title. Somehow bank found out the bike was at the track and a sent repo men to the track, and they took said bike from 2nd owner. Then the track implemented, that any bike that was going to be raced , the owner had to show proof of ownership, by title if 15 years or younger .
 
Unless the lender/ lien holder signs off on the title, it's not his to sell. I wouldn't buy it. I've got enough problems.

cg
 
YES not his to sell !!! DON'T do it not in Ca. They will F you over any way they can.. Want to NON OPP your bike ?? You have to pay them a $25 fee every year !!!
Drop your insurance ? put the bike in storage you will get a nasty letter from DMV
 
Last edited:
In CA you can't even move a bike in a truck without proper documentation. For example, Plan non Op vehicles can't be moved out of their storage location until the registration is made current, or you get DMV permission to move it. You might be able to resolve the issue with the bank and seller together, but I wouldn't buy the thing unless you have all the information as to the costs going in.
 
Some people create their own problems when they go to DMV. I just transferred two bikes that were non-opted into my name. One, which was given to me was $15.00. The other, which I paid $285.00 for, was $36.00 (15+21 sales tax). I presented my filled out non-opted forms during the transactions and when I get them back on the road, I'll fill out the forms and pay my fees. There is no annual non-opted fee. Pretty easy in my little town.

cg
 
Nessism said:
In CA you can't even move a bike in a truck without proper documentation. For example, Plan non Op vehicles can't be moved out of their storage location until the registration is made current, or you get DMV permission to move it. You might be able to resolve the issue with the bank and seller together, but I wouldn't buy the thing unless you have all the information as to the costs going in.
Click to expand...

Yea, I've heard this too. But what about GP style bikes, like a TZ250 that have minimal identification and nothing at all looking like a VIN stamped on the frame?
 
miked said:
Yea, I've heard this too. But what about GP style bikes, like a TZ250 that have minimal identification and nothing at all looking like a VIN stamped on the frame?
Click to expand...

Sorry, but I don't know.
 
My brother licensed a Yamaha TD350 road racer for the street in CA. That was a while ago though. I registered a Triumph with a Trackmaster frame. I etched the engine numbers on to the gusset by the steering head. No problem.

As to this bike, The bank paid for it, the bank has not been paid, and the bank has not sold it. It isn't that complicated to figure out who owns it.
 
I am just going by my own experience in Ca.. My reg was set to expire June 2013 IN FEB 2013 I dropped the insurance, stopped riding it.. The DMV sent me a Nasty letter so I put it on Non op cost $25 Then I received the renewal notice in May additional $25 to continue Non op or the reg renewal I think was $85 did not do either !!! I thought it was NON op. NOT any more past due renewal $147 that's BS
 
eil said:
If you don't have the title, you don't own the bike.
Click to expand...

What he said, expanded - If you don't have the CLEAR title, you don't own the bike.

AND since the seller would testify that he told you the back story, and you knew it's not a clear title, law enforcement may not look kindly on you at all.

Don't walk - RUN away from this one!
 
miked said:
Yea, I've heard this too. But what about GP style bikes, like a TZ250 that have minimal identification and nothing at all looking like a VIN stamped on the frame?
Click to expand...

All the TZ250's through the TZ750's I have even seen had serial numbers stamped on the steering neck. They even have engine serial numbers stamped on the cases.

The mighty TZ750 serial number starts out with 409-******

Even the Factory Bikes have some type of serial number on them. Don't think you can make it through Customs without them.
 
I wouldn't want to be on the wrong side of the law enforcement on that one. I don't know the law but i would think they could charge you with theft.
 
The basic problem with the original question is this:
If the bank has put a lien on the bike, then they own it. And the title, as well.
Eventually, they will send someone to find it and take it.
You would be better served going to the bank and offering to purchase it from them.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Similar threads

gtem
Back in the GS fold (a familiar '81 850G)
Replies
5
Views
153
wazz
wazz
G
The Good Humor GS850G
2
Replies
33
Views
423
93Bandit
93Bandit
Jimmbuzz
What is the right thing to do with a parts bike?
Replies
2
Views
354
rphillips
R
roy826
New here
Replies
14
Views
1K
roy826
roy826
Suzuki Mad
GS(X)1100ESD Long term project.....
2 3
Replies
58
Views
6K
Suzuki Mad
Suzuki Mad
Back
Top