LM-1 Wideband for carb tuning

[koolaid_kid]

I am in the final stages of tuning my GPz using my LM-1 wideband. I would have been finished had DJ included the necessary pilot jets.
I have a Kerker 4-1 pipe, and I just removed the end cap and installed my O2 sensor using an exhaust clamp from Innovate.
It took me less than a day to dial in the mains and the needles. Most of the time was spent installing and removing the LM-1 and the carbs. The actual tuning was a breeze, and I was able to tune both the needles and the mains at the same time. (And I could have tuned the pilots at the same time if I had the jets to change out.) All I had to do was multiple needle logs and main logs, go back and import the data into Excel, analyze the data, modify the carbs, and go for another run. Easy peasy, and I never had to touch the plugs. Except at the end, where I pulled a plug just to verify that it was the correct colour.
For most bikes, you will have to install an O2 bung in your collector. I recommend a stainless steel bung with a Toyota drain plug installed. Be sure and use lots of anti-seize on the threads or you will not be able to remove the plug at a later date.
Overall rating 6/5. Yeah, I know that is over 100%, but it was so easy and so accurate that I cannot believe anyone would settle for plug chops.
The LM-1 has been replaced by the LM-2, btw. It is not cheap at $200 or higher, so I would suggest that GSR members in any particular area pool their resources and get a collective unit.
Also, be prepared for a small learning curve when first using the unit. I have been tuning cars for years, so it was a piece of cake for me. But it is so accurate it is almost scary.

 

[Guest]

The LM-1 has been replaced by the LM-2, btw. It is not cheap at $200 or higher, so I would suggest that GSR members in any particular area pool their resources and get a collective unit.

They start at $350 ...... I'm adding it to my Santa Claus list

From--

http://www.innovatemotorsports.com/products/lm2.php


1) The new LM-2 "Basic" Kit (Single Wideband O2) includes the LM-2 meter, Bosch wide-band oxygen sensor, 8 ft sensor cable, cigarette-lighter power adapter, USB cable for PC connection, weld-in bung and plug, LogWorks software CD, and quick-start guide. P/N: 3837, MSRP $349

*Note: The LM-2 "Basic" Kit out of the box only includes accessories to display your Air/Fuel Ratio either on the meter and/or on your PC. To log RPM, or to Output the wideband signal to an external device you'll need the LM-2 Analog IN/OUT Cable optional accessory. For OBD-II features you'll need the LM-2 OBD-II Cable optional accessory. To record internally to your LM-2 you'll need the SD Card optional accessory. This unit also comes in a cardboard box, the black hardcase is an optional accessory LM-2 Carrying Case*

2) The LM-2 Kit (Single Wideband O2) includes the LM-2 meter, Bosch wide-band oxygen sensor, 8 ft sensor cable, cigarette-lighter power adapter, analog in/out cable, ODB-II/CAN interface cable, SD memory card, USB cable for PC connection, weld-in bung and plug, LogWorks software CD, and quick-start guide. Carrying Case also included! P/N: 3806, MSRP $479

3) The LM-2 Duo Kit (Dual Wideband O2) includes the LM-2 meter, (2) Bosch wide-band oxygen sensors, (2) 8 ft sensor cables, cigarette-lighter power adapter, analog in/out cable, ODB-II/CAN interface cable, SD memory card, USB cable for PC connection, (2) weld-in bung and plug kits, LogWorks software CD, and quick-start guide. Carrying Case also included! P/N: 3807, MSRP $669.

-Dave

 

[Nessism]

So the O2 sensor is at the exit of the pipe, or am I misunderstanding? I thought the O2 needs to be pretty far upstream into the exhaust flow? Cars are this way anyway. Guess the proof is in the pudding as far as how well the bike runs.

To measure is to know! I think I read that somewhere...

 

[posplayr]

A WB O2 sensor is key to proper carb tuning (Innovate is arguably the most accurate for the money), but there are some required techniques for measuring the AFR. The standard method like on the Factorypro website doesn't work as well. I found a long steep hill and measured AFR at constant throttle settings after letting the carberation settle. AFR can vary wildy if going through the gears. For anybody not very good with electrical stuff, the LM-1 is probably a better choice. I have a full LM-2/LMA-3 setup but it was a bit of a challenge to get to all work. LM-2 are plauged with problems unless you can get it setup right and mine works very well now.

I probably would not have been able to get my 4:2:1 properly jetted without the WB O2 sensor.


http://www.thegsresources.com/_forum/showthread.php?t=161402&highlight=Lm-2


http://www.thegsresources.com/_forum/showthread.php?t=165267&highlight=Lm-2

http://www.thegsresources.com/_forum/showthread.php?t=164565&highlight=Lm-2

http://www.thegsresources.com/_forum/showthread.php?t=161304&highlight=Lm-2

 

[koolaid_kid]

Update and revisions

Update and revisions

I finally got my pilot jets in. I had to move up 2 sizes, from stock 37.5 (AFR ~19) to 42.5 (AFR ~13.3). I have no idea how the plug chop method would have lead me there.
Jim, thanks for putting all the links in one place.
Dave, it sounds like the LM-2 has issues. You might be better served with an LM-1, they have been around for years. You might even find a decent used one, but I would be wary of the O2 sensor. Replacements seem to be ~$80.
Nessism, the part I place in the tailpipe is the exhaust clamp, under Universal Accessories. I have heard of folks fashioning their own. AFA the location, if you get your car or bike dyno tuned that is what they use. The sensor merely needs to be south of the last cat, which we don't have.
Also, the location of the bung (for semi or permanent installation) needs to be in the collector so it catches a bit of each cylinder. If you want to tune each cylinder you need one in each header pipe, but that is a bit much for a street bike.
I would avoid the Innovate bung. It uses the recessed Allen wrench style, which almost always rounds off when you try to remove it. Get the Toyota drain plug style instead.

 

[salty_monk]

I have been wanting a go on Pos's setup for some time. I've seen it in person & it looks easy to deal with.

I guess I'll find the time for it at some stage. Be nice to get my Skunk properly dialed in

 

[posplayr]

I have been wanting a go on Pos's setup for some time. I've seen it in person & it looks easy to deal with.

I guess I'll find the time for it at some stage. Be nice to get my Skunk properly dialed in

Dan you saw the portable scope at your house, I don't remember when you would have seen the O2 setup (other than pictures). It was about a $600 inverstment not counting teh time to set it up, but well worth it if I had to do it again.

 

[Testarossa]

So the O2 sensor is at the exit of the pipe, or am I misunderstanding? I thought the O2 needs to be pretty far upstream into the exhaust flow? Cars are this way anyway. Guess the proof is in the pudding as far as how well the bike runs.

To measure is to know! I think I read that somewhere...

I have used a LM-2 to log AFR, rpm, and throttle position on my KZ1000. I welded a bung for the O2 sensor in my exhaust just after the collector. It's almost in the middle of my exhaust. I couldn't be happier with it, and it helped me decipher a difficult fueling issue that I had with that bike at first.

 

[Guest]

Nessism, the part I place in the tailpipe is the exhaust clamp, under Universal Accessories. I have heard of folks fashioning their own.

Any issues with the exhaust clamp fitting a bike exhaust properly with the cone/baffle being in the way?

http://www.innovatemotorsports.com/xcart/product.php?productid=16141&cat=271&page=1

They do not give any dimensions on the innovatemotorsports website.

-Dave

 

[koolaid_kid]

Yes, fitment can be an issue. The end cap comes off my Kerker so I am good. We were unable to make it fit in Josh's (TheCafeKid) Kaw pipe.
If it is critical, I can take some pics w/a tape measure next to the clamp (this evening, of course).
I have yet to see a car it won't fit, but we are kind of going outside the box on this one. Like I said, I have heard of folk fabricating their own (again, in the car world), so this may be the time to do it.

 

[Guest]

Yes, fitment can be an issue. The end cap comes off my Kerker so I am good. We were unable to make it fit in Josh's (TheCafeKid) Kaw pipe.
If it is critical, I can take some pics w/a tape measure next to the clamp (this evening, of course).
I have yet to see a car it won't fit, but we are kind of going outside the box on this one. Like I said, I have heard of folk fabricating their own (again, in the car world), so this may be the time to do it.

A picture would be great. I have a Kerker megaphone on my bike, I'm not sure how easy it would be to get the baffle out. I would think taking the baffle out would change the air flow and screw up the jetting thus defeating an accurate measurement?

-Dave

 

[koolaid_kid]

I leave the baffle in and place the tube portion of the clamp inside the baffle. http://www.thegsresources.com/_forum/showthread.php?t=180931&page=3
Look at post #27 for particulars. I'll get some measurements this evening (with pics).

 

[koolaid_kid]

Some Exhaust Clamp Pictures

Some Exhaust Clamp Pictures

The ID of the venturi tube is ~1/2".

The business end.

From the outside of the venturi tube to the inside of the bracket that holds the clamp is ~3/4".

The width of the venturi tube is ~1".

Overall length is ~6 1/2".

Hope this helps. Innovate is less than helpful on their website. All they show is a picture and a demand for money.

 

[Guest]

Doesn't look like that will work with the Megaphone exhaust as I don't have that nice little stub like your Kerker does.

Does the tube that the O2 senser go into go all the way through? I bet I can cobble something together with some threaded pipe for cheap.

Thanks,
Dave

 

[salty_monk]

Dan you saw the portable scope at your house, I don't remember when you would have seen the O2 setup (other than pictures). It was about a $600 inverstment not counting teh time to set it up, but well worth it if I had to do it again.

You had the LM2 setup with you as well. I didn't see it fitted though

 

[posplayr]

You had the LM2 setup with you as well. I didn't see it fitted though

Oh I forgot (it was just in the box) , yea you are right. I was thinking of using it on that guys bike that had the party. Sorry I have been blocking that dude.

 

[posplayr]

Doesn't look like that will work with the Megaphone exhaust as I don't have that nice little stub like your Kerker does.

Does the tube that the O2 senser go into go all the way through? I bet I can cobble something together with some threaded pipe for cheap.

Thanks,
Dave

mine has a 3 ft copper tube that goes all the way up to the collector. I could sniff individual down tubes if i wanted that way.

 

[koolaid_kid]

Doesn't look like that will work with the Megaphone exhaust as I don't have that nice little stub like your Kerker does.

Does the tube that the O2 senser go into go all the way through? I bet I can cobble something together with some threaded pipe for cheap.

Thanks,
Dave

The tube the sensor screws into makes an "L" and exits to the hole in the end I showed in the first 2 pics. I have heard of folk making their own custom ones, either because of fitment issues or the high price of the Innovate unit.

 

[Guest]

The tube the sensor screws into makes an "L" and exits to the hole in the end I showed in the first 2 pics. I have heard of folk making their own custom ones, either because of fitment issues or the high price of the Innovate unit.

Is this the way the exhaust flow goes then?

 

[koolaid_kid]

Just about. It goes in the venturi as you indicate, makes a sharp left to the sensor, does a 180 turn, goes to the top and makes a sharp right. It then continues back along the tube and makes a sharp left near the front of the venturi and exits through a hole I failed to get a picture of. Basically, the tube that slips into the tailpipe has two channels, the entrance hole I already showed, and then an exit channel. Most likely that is a bit of overkill, but that is the way they designed it.
I'll try to get a shot of the exit hole tonight.