Non-Oil-Burning Oil Leak from Exhaust Manifold

[Roostabunny]

Parts on the way

Parts on the way

OK, all parts ordered and the waiting game begins...

Bikebandit usually takes a while (half moons), and I don't want to go a whole extra week if their stuff doesn't show up by the weekend. My Real gaskets should be here no later than tomorrow. So, here are my questions...

1. Are the Real gaskets as re-usable as they say? Can I clean things up, put the gaskets in there, and then adjust the valves (and replace the half moons) later without replacing the gasket again if I'm careful?
2. Alternately, can I use a high-temp rtv sealant in that 1/2" space that's leaking in the current gasket to slow the flow for a couple of days till I can get everything ready for the job? The leak was just too fast for me to feel comfortable riding, and it was pretty tough on the old trouser legs/shoes.

Meanwhile, I'm pretty excited to declare war on my oil leaks. Here's what's coming after a flurry of ordering...

• Valve and breather cover gaskets (Real)
• Valve Cover half moons (Bike Bandit)
• Tach gear oil seal parts (Bike Bandit)
• Cam Chain Tensioner rebuild parts (Bike Bandit) - Anyone know the mounting bolt sizes on this thing? I hear there are two sizes and want to get stainless.
• Carb boot o-rings and stainless bolts (Cycleorings - not oil-related, but I read a thread yesterday that made me realize my NAPA rings wouldn't last, and I'll have the carbs off when I do the Cam Chain tensioner anyway.)
• Oil filter and filter cover o-ring (Bike Bandit - it's about time anyway)

Hope it arrives before the weekend! [-o<

 

[bwringer]

1) Yes, you can re-use RealGaskets for a lifetime. Mine has something like 8 or 9 valve checks on it.

Just make sure you don't overtorque the bolts. 15 inch-pounds is barely finger-tight. In fact, torque wrenches that can read that low are fairly rare and expensive. Just tighten the bolts finger tight, then watch how much the gasket is compressed -- maybe another half-turn or so would be enough to compress the gasket by about a third of its height or less.

2) NO! RTV goes in the trash can or your old broken down Chevy, not on your GS. It wouldn't do a thing to seal this leak anyway.

Someone will be along shortly to call me a silicone Nazi... RTV has certain uses, but only in vanishingly small amounts (no thicker than what you can see through), and only to deal with special problems or emergencies, like badly dinged-up gasket surfaces. In these cases, a nonhardening sealer like Hylomar is a far better choice.

3) On a GS850, the tensioner mounting bolts are two 6mm X 25mm and one 6mm X 20mm. (bolts are spec'd by thread diameter X length of threads -- you don't include the head of the fastener). Buy lots of extras -- stainless is strangely addictive. :-D


4) You can get a very nice oil filter and o-ring from your local Napa store -- PS4931, I think (or let them look it up). It's made by Wix and is better quality than the more common Fram filters. You can re-use the oil filter cover o-rings, but not forever. I normally install a new OEM o-ring once a season, with the first oil change in the spring. Most stores have one or two in stock.

 

[Roostabunny]

1.) Good news. So if I'm delayed on the valve check because I couldn't borrow the tools and shim set, I can still get back on the road with my new gasket. Thanks for the torque tip.

2.) Funny. Reminds me of the time I used belt dressing to silence a squeaky belt on a car years ago. I brought it to my awesome mechanic and when I picked it up he was fuming because "Some a**hole sprayed the sh*t out of the belt with belt dressing". I informed him sheepishly that I was the a**hole. Had a similar sheepish experience with fix-a-flat, with the addition of a threat against my person if I ever used the stuff again. Well, that's why I asked.

3.) Oh it sure is. I just ordered the stainless set for my carb intake boots from Mr. Robert Barr along with those o-rings. I'd put black hex nuts on there already, but the gleam of stainless, well... you said it. Meanwhile, I stopped at Ace on the way home and picked these up. Shiny. I didn't get washers - is that alright?

4.) I'll check that out next oil change. Meanwhile I'm glad about the o-ring. When I changed the oil last time it seemed fine, so I didn't worry about not having a new one. Guess now I'll hang on to the one I bought.

No gasket delivery yet - hopefully tomorrow.

 

[TheCafeKid]

Roberts set will come with washers, and i would suggest using them. His set also comes with healthy dose of what appears to be antisieze in the bag...very nice touch.

 

[Roostabunny]

Roberts set will come with washers, and i would suggest using them. His set also comes with healthy dose of what appears to be antisieze in the bag...very nice touch.

Oh yah - those I'll use the ones that come with Robert's kit for sure.

What about for the cam chain tensioner? There's no washers on those stock mounting bolts, they just look like they have slightly bigger heads than the stainless bolts I bought to replace them.

 

[Roostabunny]

Foot Powder

Foot Powder

A GSR member emailed me for details on the "foot powder" procedure. Not much too it, really, although I probably should have explained the context of my comment.

From reading around the forum about oil leaks, there seems to be a standard procedure for finding them.

1. scrub the engine clean of all oil and grime
2. start her up and watch (like a hawk) for oil to see where it starts

Some folks have added a helpful step in the middle which is to dust the engine with talc or baby powder. This helps two ways. First, it sort of flattens the visual field by hiding the natural color variations of the engine block. Imagine a hunter in camo standing in the woods. Now imagine if you spray painted all the trees white. This is especially helpful if you keep up with your oil changes, as nice clear oil is harder to see (even on a clean engine) than black sludgy stuff. The second way that it helps is that the powder absorbs the oil a little, slowing the drip process and providing an easier way to trace the leak. Leaks (with clean oil, anyway) show up as caramel-colored "blooms" in the field of white powder.

Finally, to advance the "baby powder" method one more step, somebody figured out that a spray powder (such as foot power or certain deoderants) goes on quicker and more evenly than baby powder. Probably easier to get it in between cooling fins and such, too. More expensive, but very fast and easy. Due to cost, I think I'll actually try regular baby powder next time, but you can see from my pics that the foot spray goes on pretty even.

Meanwhile, folks like you and I get to stand on the shoulders of all these clever folks and find our oil leaks the quick way.

 

[Roostabunny]

No soup for you!

No soup for you!

Darn - no gaskets today. They were sent Priority Mail on Friday, so I was sure they'd be here by today...

Oh well, I decided to get started without them and not rush myself. I'm actually kind of glad - one of my ignition cover screws is being stubborn, and it'll give me time to borrow an impact driver along with the feeler gauges. Sprayed some PB Blaster on it in the meantime. Also, my new half moons shipped from BikeBandit today so I'll probably wait till they arrive (hopefully by Friday) to finish up and try out Steve's valve shim calculating spreadsheet.

The breather cover was really gunked up, so I'm sure that gasket was leaking, too, oozing down the whole back side of the block. I got the covers off and found the offending section of the old gasket. A small crack, but enough.

I considered pulling the airbox and carbs off while I'm waiting for the gasket so I can get a better look at the cam chain tensioner leak (and install my spiffy new intake boot o-rings and stainless bolts from Robert Barr), but I'm nervous to have more than one thing apart at once with as little space as I have to work.

 

[Guest]

Replace all those phillip heads with allen heads.

 

[Roostabunny]

Here's the source of the leak - crack allowed gasket to shift.

Sorry about the picture quality. Used my phone because I've misplaced my camera.

 

[Roostabunny]

Still no soup for you!

Still no soup for you!

Drat, no Real gasket yet!

I'm holding out hope that it'll arrive by Saturday afternoon otherwise I'm driving instead of riding again on Monday.

It was sent USPS priority mail from TN on Monday.

In better news, my oil filter from Bikebandit (and half-moons) and my carb boot o-rings and stainless bolts from Mr. Robert Barr did arrive, so at least I've got something to distract me while waiting for the mailman!

 

[Roostabunny]

Better picture

Better picture

Found my camera.

 

[Roostabunny]

OK, it was a nail biter, but my valve and breather cover gaskets arrived Saturday afternoon.

Everything's back together. I was short on time (and haven't heard an valve clatter) so I postponed the valve check. No leaks from the gasket :-D.

Thanks for the help on finding the thing!

Cam chain tensioner and tach sender parts arrive early next week, so hopefully seal those up in short order too.

 

[tkent02]

I was short on time (and haven't heard an valve clatter) so I postponed the valve check.

Not hearing the valves means they are too tight.

 

[Roostabunny]

Not hearing the valves means they are too tight.

I probably misused the word clatter. I can hear 'em, they're just not making excessive noise. My general understanding's been that too loose will result in noisy valves, too tight will result in hard starting and difficult warm-up. Is too tight also overly quiet in the valve area?

 

[waterman]

Go back in and check the valves. If you have gone to the expense of removing valve cover, check the valves. It doesn't take more than half hour. Do it for peace of mind if nothing else.

 

[Roostabunny]

Go back in and check the valves. If you have gone to the expense of removing valve cover, check the valves. It doesn't take more than half hour. Do it for peace of mind if nothing else.

Oh I'll do it, just had to get to work. And I'm big on peace of mind.

Four-day weekend coming up, and I'll have the tank off to fix the oil seals on my cam chain tensioner. As one of my esteemed colleagues just said "that's what four-day weekends are for, so hicks can work on their vehicles!"

So another part of the reason I delayed is that I don't have access to a shim set yet. I have a friend with a number of 29.5mm shims around, but I think they're from a Yamaha and a little on the fat side (mostly 250-300). Any tips on the logistics of that when I commute on this bike and work days? Wonder if the cycle shop will be open Friday. Do auto parts places have 29.5mm shims?

 

[tkent02]

My general understanding's been that too loose will result in noisy valves, too tight will result in hard starting and difficult warm-up.

Don't forget zero compression because of burnt valves.

 

[Roostabunny]

Leak sealed

Leak sealed

OK, here it is, all sealed up. I've got a quick test ride and a half-hour highway commute on it now with no signs of leakage.

 

[Roostabunny]

Pants

Pants

Cool milestone. I changed out my tach gear seals yesterday (thanks Bwringer) and arrived at work today with no oil splatters on my cuffs for the first time in a couple of months.

 

[Roostabunny]

Cam Chain Tensioner

Cam Chain Tensioner

Thanks for the tutorial, Bwringer! Here's the "after" pic.

Cheers