push start button....nothing

[Redman]

second photo..

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Speaking of the blk/wht wire with the ring terminal that should be grounding the solonoid MOUNTING BOLT :

Do I see the blk/wht wire with the ring terminal on the big lug (starter wire) .....?
If so, that ground wire probably got burnt-melted-fried-blown away (aint a ground wire no more) the first time you tried to start it, or maybe when you jumped it and had the fireworks.......



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[gregp]

DOnt know what to say about your variuous observations.


But this one, seems like a good observation/symptom that we can work with:


Not even a hint of a grunt, dim the head light, not even a faint click ....?
Well then I suspect one of two things:
1- Solenoid is bad, is doing nothing.
or
2-Solenoid is not grounded. Solenoid gets its ground from being mounted to the battery box, but the battery box may not be well grounded to the frame, so is suppose to be a blk/wht wire from the bikes wiring harness that is connected to the frame and to the bolt that mounts the solenoid. Look to see if that wire is there at bolt of the solenoid, and even if it is, the other end may not be well grounded to the frame, so add your own wire from that solenoid bolt to the bike frame (or battery negitive).

.

There is a black and white wire from the harness that was connected to the negative terminal of the solenoid and a black and white wire that went to the mounting bolt of the battery box. That is the way it was before I disassembled it for cleaning, derusting, painting....i did remove the paint where the ground wire is connected at the battery box mounting screw but maybe that ground is not good. This can be seen in the pictures. I am pretty sure that it went back together the way it was when it was working. Not sure why the solenoid would go bad but maybe it did...still I should be able to check some voltages to diagnose this...

 

[gregp]

Speaking of the blk/wht wire with the ring terminal that should be grounding the solonoid MOUNTING BOLT :

Do I see the blk/wht wire with the ring terminal on the big lug (starter wire) .....?
If so, that ground wire probably got burnt-melted-fried-blown away (aint a ground wire no more) the first time you tried to start it, or maybe when you jumped it and had the fireworks.......



.

Yes...what you see is what you get. That is the way it was when working. The only possible error is that the two black and white wires are now in the opposite places. Now what?

 

[gregp]

Did you ever get the battery charged up to more than 10 volts....?

.

battery is good...new battery measures more than 12V

 

[Redman]

There is a black and white wire from the harness that was connected to the negative terminal of the solenoid and a black and white wire that went to the mounting bolt of the battery box. That is the way it was before I disassembled it for cleaning, derusting, painting....
..............

Lets discuss this point: The two big terminals on the solenoid.
One (on right in your photo) is the lead from the battery, correct?
The other big terminal (on back left in your photo) is the lead going to the starter, correct?
(And the little wire, yel/grn, on that solder point, is the wire from the starter button circuit.)

And lets think of this:
When the littleyel/grn wire powers the solenoid (assuming the solenoid is grounded thru its mounting), then what the solenoid does internally is to connect the big lead from the battery to the big lead to the starter. THis it to put battery voltage to the starter to power the starter (assuming the starter is grounded thru the engine case).

And..... you have what looks like a ground wire on the lead going to the starter motor.
I would think that ground wire would get burnt and melted in about 2 or 3 seconds if you put battery voltage to it thru that big thick cable.

You say there are two ground wires in the area, and maybe they got swapped in recent work..
(I, looking at the photo, dont see one on the mounting bolt, but can only see one of the two mounting bolts.)

Disconnect the blk/wht wire(s) from the solenoid, check each of them with meter (continuity) to see if either of them is still actaully connected to frame/negative. If one of them is, put that one on the mounting bolt.

Lets straightne this out , then can talk about troubleshooting with a meter while trying to start it.

 

[gregp]

Lets discuss this point: The two big terminals on the solenoid.
One (on right in your photo) is the lead from the battery, correct?
The other big terminal (on back left in your photo) is the lead going to the starter, correct?
(And the little wire, yel/grn, on that solder point, is the wire from the starter button circuit.)

And lets think of this:
When the littleyel/grn wire powers the solenoid (assuming the solenoid is grounded thru its mounting), then what the solenoid does internally is to connect the big lead from the battery to the big lead to the starter. THis it to put battery voltage to the starter to power the starter (assuming the starter is grounded thru the engine case).

And..... you have what looks like a ground wire on the lead going to the starter motor.
I would think that ground wire would get burnt and melted in about 2 or 3 seconds if you put battery voltage to it thru that big thick cable.

You say there are two ground wires in the area, and maybe they got swapped in recent work..
(I, looking at the photo, dont see one on the mounting bolt, but can only see one of the two mounting bolts.)

Disconnect the blk/wht wire(s) from the solenoid, check each of them with meter (continuity) to see if either of them is still actaully connected to frame/negative. If one of them is, put that one on the mounting bolt.

Lets straightne this out , then can talk about troubleshooting with a meter while trying to start it.

So I went back to review photos I had taken before disassembly. Low and behold I found a photo that shows the black and white wire attached at the solenoid mounting bolt. The picture I was looking at originally seemed to show another ring lug on the solenoid neg terminal which I thought was the ring lug of the black and white wire. It may just have been a boss at the base of the lug...I'll get the ground wire positioned correctly and hope it works and that I didn't damage anything else in the circuit. I'll report back hopefully with good news...thanks for your help Redman.

 

[Redman]

...
...
....I'll get the ground wire positioned correctly and hope it works and that I didn't damage anything else in the circuit. I'll report back hopefully with good news...thanks for your help Redman.

Good that you found that.
Yah, take that blk/wht wire off of the starter lead.

Do check to see that the blk/wht wire is still a ground wire. By that, I mean, is still has continuity to the frame (battery -).
I suspect it has been burnt-melted so it doesn't connect to anything anymore.
THink of this: if you were to take a similar sized (guage) of wire and connect it from battery + to the battery -, what would happen? It would turn into a toaster heater element.

FOr the solenoid to operate when put power on that yel/grn wire: Do need to have the solenoid grounded, somehow.
May need to add your own wire from the solenoid mounting bolt to frame ground (or battery -), if that blk/wht wire is no longer a good ground wire.

.

 

[gregp]

Good that you found that.
Yah, take that blk/wht wire off of the starter lead.

Do check to see that the blk/wht wire is still a ground wire. By that, I mean, is still has continuity to the frame (battery -).
I suspect it has been burnt-melted so it doesn't connect to anything anymore.
THink of this: if you were to take a similar sized (guage) of wire and connect it from battery + to the battery -, what would happen? It would turn into a toaster heater element.

FOr the solenoid to operate when put power on that yel/grn wire: Do need to have the solenoid grounded, somehow.
May need to add your own wire from the solenoid mounting bolt to frame ground (or battery -), if that blk/wht wire is no longer a good ground wire.

.

Update....I put the black and white wire where is is supposed to be...and it turned over. So I was happy about that...then put the start switch assembly back together on the handlebars, added a connector to the tail light and connected it...tried to start it again...nothing. Took the start switch apart again and with all of my manipulation one of the wires had broke off the circuit board. Did the pliers across the solenoid and she turned over. So one step forward one step back...thanks again.

 

[posplayr]

Good that you found that.
Yah, take that blk/wht wire off of the starter lead.

Do check to see that the blk/wht wire is still a ground wire. By that, I mean, is still has continuity to the frame (battery -).
I suspect it has been burnt-melted so it doesn't connect to anything anymore.
THink of this: if you were to take a similar sized (guage) of wire and connect it from battery + to the battery -, what would happen? It would turn into a toaster heater element.

FOr the solenoid to operate when put power on that yel/grn wire: Do need to have the solenoid grounded, somehow.
May need to add your own wire from the solenoid mounting bolt to frame ground (or battery -), if that blk/wht wire is no longer a good ground wire.

.

Agree with all; If I were there:

1.) I would trace back both B/W wire to where the exit the wrapped harness bundle. If they are in good condition then you may be OK. Use an ohm meter to to buzz across and make sure there is low resistance between the two ring lugs.

2.) If all is good then one normally goes to the solenoid mount the other to the front battery mounting bolt.

3.) If one of teh wires is fried, then you need to open the harness and get back to the common crimp where the groudn backbone in the harmness (all B/W wires) are crimped together. Swap out those that are bad and flow some solder the crimp.

4.) Re assemble as in 2.)

 

[Redman]

........

.....)

Pos,

I too am concerned about the ground wire melting itself and adjacent wires in the harness.

I suspect it has not been melted/damaged, only because the solenoid did not have a proper ground so never did operate , and maybe when he bridged it, it was just for a short time (pun intended).
And .... in picture of solenoid the blk/wht wire doesn't look to be damaged. And in picture (post 13) of the top of the battery box can see the blk/wht wire there, and does not look damaged their either.

.

>> later note. Oh now see OP posting about the putting ground wire to the mounting bolt and solenoid now working.

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[Bortasqu]

I had my new bike with a no crank no start, went through everything and couldn't figure out the problem so I dug into the killswitch. To find out it's perfectly fine.
Then I went here and looked at the starter button doesn't work(just like mine), then somone mentions the clutch switch could lead to a no start even with the clutch held in.
I thought: why not. Went to the bike again and took the sidestand in, and the bike came back again with crank start from the button.

Many thanks for this helpful site. Now I'm most likely gonna do a quick carb clean without touching anything, it's brown stuff in the bowls.

 

[Rich82GS750TZ]

Bortasqu
You?re replying to a 3 year old dead thread. Glad you think you figured out your no start issue. You should know that no GS came from the factory with a side-stand-down kill switch. You?ve got the right hand run/off red switch, and the clutch switch. That?s it (besides the ignition key).

Also, I see mentioned in this thread about the bike needing to be in neutral to start. It doesn?t. Defeating, or bypassing the clutch switch is easy and a popular mod ( I won?t do it). If that has been done, then you would absolutely want the bike In neutral so it doesn?t lurch forward when you press the Start button.

Please put your bike year and model in your signature so people know what you?re talking about. And there is no ?good? quick carb clean. Without touching anything?

 

[Rob S.]

If I may insert myself here. My 11EZ cranked 2 or 3 times, last time pretty slowly. I never considered the clutch lockout. I thought of only the starter or relay. Does it sound like I was overlooking something? (Suzi is safe in the basement garage. She stayed home while I was out destroying the Sporty and my foot. )

 

[Rob S.]

I seem to recall she still will "click," but no more.

 

[posplayr]

Funny to see this thread where OP had grounded the B/W to the "negative" post of the solenoid LOL.

This is the reason in part I always want all 6 voltages from the Quick Test in order to do a diagnosis. You NEVER really knoe what the OP will actually be doing so getting 6 numbers that have an explaination means they are much more likely to be doing the measurements correctly.

There is almost no way to know this with only one measurement.

This is why it is also most important to post pictures about what you are doing else nobody would have ever figured out what you were doing wrong.