question about oil.............viscosity

[schlyme]

as i open this can of worms, i was wondering if anyone has tried using 20w50 in there GS's. i have an 81 1100e currently without an oil cooler. so what i want to know is would 20w50 help my engine ru not as hot in the summer?

 

[gearhead13]

as i open this can of worms, i was wondering if anyone has tried using 20w50 in there GS's. i have an 81 1100e currently without an oil cooler. so what i want to know is would 20w50 help my engine ru not as hot in the summer?

AFAIK, thicker oil will not make the engine run cooler, but the oil will thin out less at high temperatures (for better engine protection), and will be thicker when you first start from cold.

 

[chuck hahn]

Ok ..i used the search feature and have read all the posts and opinions on synthetics..I have been running GN 4 from our local dealership in 10w40. This was when i didnt know squat about the GS bikes. The oil cap says use 10w40 SAE. When i mentioned this to the mechanics they said not to use conventional oil because it wouldnt last 1000 miles. Maybe they just wanted me to spend more at the dealership for the more expensive GN4.. My original intent was to just use Valavoline 10w40. (conventional) What say the more experienced minds here??

 

[almarconi]

I run either the Rotella 5w40 synthetic or the 15w40 dino oil in my bike(s) and it seems to work fine. I've got a Benz 240D than runs the 5w40 and starting in cold weather is not a problem.

 

[chuck hahn]

what about running off the shelf valvoline conventional in them? they are a 77 and a 78 750s.

 

[almarconi]

I think as long as you change your oil regularly you won't have a problem. Make sure whatever oil you use does not say "energy conserving" on the label since these will cause problems with your clutch.

 

[Baatfam]

what about running off the shelf valvoline conventional in them? they are a 77 and a 78 750s.

I think as long as you change your oil regularly you won't have a problem. Make sure whatever oil you use does not say "energy conserving" on the label since these will cause problems with your clutch.

To expand on what almarconi is saying...
Do not use conventional car oil as they are mostly "energy conserving" which does not work with a wet clutch...
Motorcycle oils or many of the diesel oils will work...

I use the Rotella 5w-40 in my bikes...it's diesel oil...you can find it at Walmart, Autozone and such like places...

 

[almarconi]

Walmart sells the Rotella 5w-40 for less than $20/gallon. Its great for cold and hot weather use. I can't see any reason not to use it.

 

[rustybronco]

If you want to lower you oil temps, you might give Amsoil 20w50 a try.


FOR ME... Amsoil 20w50 was the best oil I used in my '82 to date. TO ME, it appeared to lower the temp of the engine. but remember, what might feet hot to you might be just fine for the engine. all three of my bikes have Rotella 15w40 or 5w40 in them at the moment, but I'm thinking of switching to Amsoil 20w50 in the '80 (@$7.00 a quart).

 

[oldgrumpy]

shell sx20-50 forified..........

shell sx20-50 forified..........

i,ve used this product in both my overhauled xs650 yam 77D...running full kits in 38cv carbs and 45 st/st headers with tracker mufflers... never thinned or let me down.. also in my 1980gs1000e ,,with a 1/2mm kit in top and 4-1 system and megacycle muffleand is running loverly...also run both my 21" old mowers with the same being 4 stroke briggs &stratton 187both of them same size and they bothget a hiding within reason.. regards david from kaniva

 

[doctorgonzo]

Walmart sells the Rotella 5w-40 for less than $20/gallon. Its great for cold and hot weather use. I can't see any reason not to use it.

That's what I run, Rotella.

 

[Nessism]

Auto oils have a good bit less zinc in them than they used to since the newer oil standards require this to improve catylist life. Diesel oil has about 25% more so I think this is a much better choice for a motorcycle that chews the oil with transmission gears and a high rpm valve train. Rotella 5W-40 synthetic is a good choice in hot temps or just regular 15W-40 diesel oil (depending on what's on sale). Motorcycle specific oil is also okay but it's highly overpriced compared to what you get and it typically has less zinc than diesel oil.

 

[Steve]

. so what i want to know is would 20w50 help my engine ru not as hot in the summer?

Generally speaking, oil viscosity does not control the engine temperature (neither does the heat range of the spark plug, but that's a different topic).
However, since the oil is just a bit thicker, it is harder to pump through the engine, it makes the engine work harder. Of course, when the engine works harder it gets warmer, so, in reality, thicker oil will make your engine run hotter (but it might only be a couple of degrees). The plus side is that at the higher temperatures, the thicker oil will not thin out as much.

AFAIK, thicker oil will not make the engine run cooler, but the oil will thin out less at high temperatures (for better engine protection), and will be thicker when you first start from cold.

Yep, this goes back to my first point, but brings out the fact that it's harder to pump. It's more critical at start-up, it will take longer to get thicker oil flowing the small passages and bearing clearances. It is better to run oil with a lower "w" number up front, like 5w or 10w. The 20w-50 just will not flow through all the little passages as quickly, so I try to avoid it.

what about running off the shelf valvoline conventional in them? they are a 77 and a 78 750s.

"Off the shelf Valvoline" should not be a problem, as long as it's the proper viscosity and changed regularly.

I think as long as you change your oil regularly you won't have a problem. Make sure whatever oil you use does not say "energy conserving" on the label since these will cause problems with your clutch.

To expand on what almarconi is saying...
Do not use conventional car oil as they are mostly "energy conserving" which does not work with a wet clutch...
Motorcycle oils or many of the diesel oils will work...
I use the Rotella 5w-40 in my bikes...it's diesel oil...you can find it at Walmart, Autozone and such like places...

Yep, look for the "Energy Conserving" label in the API 'donut' on the back. Those are the ones you do NOT want to use, but avoiding the "EC" label is rather easy: don't use any 30w oil. I have not yet seen any of the "EC" oil that is 40w.

If you want to lower you oil temps, you might give Amsoil 20w50 a try.FOR ME... Amsoil 20w50 was the best oil I used in my '82 to date. TO ME, it appeared to lower the temp of the engine. but remember, what might feet hot to you might be just fine for the engine. all three of my bikes have Rotella 15w40 or 5w40 in them at the moment, but I'm thinking of switching to Amsoil 20w50 in the '80 (@$7.00 a quart).

Lots of subjective feelings here, NO measurements. For many people, spending more money on a product might make them feel good, but that does not mean it's better for the machine.

Auto oils have a good bit less zinc in them than they used to since the newer oil standards require this to improve catylist life. Diesel oil has about 25% more so I think this is a much better choice for a motorcycle that chews the oil with transmission gears and a high rpm valve train. Rotella 5W-40 synthetic is a good choice in hot temps or just regular 15W-40 diesel oil (depending on what's on sale). Motorcycle specific oil is also okay but it's highly overpriced compared to what you get and it typically has less zinc than diesel oil.

Yep, "motorcycle oil" is probably the best, but way overpriced. "Diesel oil" is next-best, reasonably priced and readily available. I use Rotella 5w-40 (synthetic) in most of my vehicles, but my wife's bike leaks enough oil that I use the cheaper dino oil in there.

.

 

[rustybronco]

Yep, look for the "Energy Conserving" label in the API 'donut' on the back. Those are the ones you do NOT want to use, but avoiding the "EC" label is rather easy: don't use any 30w oil. I have not yet seen any of the "EC" oil that is 40w.

There's 10w30 diesel oil out there.
api service CJ-4/SM not an "EC" oil.

 

[Guest]

Well , just to be different............ I run a straight 50 weight mineral in my 'S . Living in the tropics , my ambient is probably higher than most of you . Going by my temp guage , the old girl runs marginally cooler with the heavier oil . With 110,000 K's on the clock , she "consumes" a little oil , but not nearly so much since swapping to the 50 . Cheers , Simon .

 

[tlg1100]

25 yrs ago a suzuki dealership told me they use castrol 20-50 in most bikes , maybe not nowadays, so thats what I have been using ever since and the p.o.s still runs after all these years never had the motor opened up for any thing,better oil now so might switch.

 

[Guest]

as i open this can of worms, i was wondering if anyone has tried using 20w50 in there GS's. i have an 81 1100e currently without an oil cooler. so what i want to know is would 20w50 help my engine ru not as hot in the summer?

An oil cooler would benefit you the most IMHO, to lower temps....you should also see a noticeable difference in temps by switching to synthetic oil, even with 10W-40. I ran a 1:3 blend of Amsoil 0W-40 synth and Castrol 10W-40 (either regular GTX, or their GP motorcycle oil), and it did bring down temps noticeably, so much so that I would not run straight synthetic up here in fall/winter, due to difficulty in getting the oil to operating temperature. Reading on BITOG (Bob Is The Oil Guy) forum and elsewhere, the reason seems to be that because synthetic oil has a uniform structure at the molecular level,unlike refined dino oil, it is better able to transfer heat via convection.....it apparently also has a lower coefficient of friction than conventional oil. If you do spring for a full synthetic fill, do let us know the results (do you have a temp gauge?).
Here is an interesting, (though long) article on the subject, if you are bored.
http://mr2.com/TEXT/synth_oil.txt

FWIW, I now run full Castrol GP 10W-40 conventional motorcycle oil (only slightly more money than regular GTX)...my clutch seems happiest with it, and it's easier to get the oil to temps in colder weather (I have an oil cooler).

Tony.

EDIT:
From the article I linked...

...[The remarkable ability of synthetic oils to reduce internal operating
temperatures is far too important to ignore, since high operating
temperatures contribute directly to premature failure of mechanical
components and gaskets and seals. Coolant (i.e. water/antifreeze) cools
only the upper regions of an engine. The task of cooling the crankshaft,
main and connecting rod bearings, the timing gear and chain, the
camshaft and its bearings, and numerous other components must borne
entirely by the oil. There are three identifiable reasons why
synthetics do a better job of cooling an engine: (1) Because of both the
oil's lubricity (slipperiness) and it's stable viscosity, less
friction-- and thus less heat-- is generated in the first place; (2) The
molecular structure of the oil itself is designed to more efficiently
transfer heat, even compared against the thermal conductivity properties
(ability to absorb and dissipate heat) of an identical-viscosity
petroleum oil; and (3) As mentioned in the preceding paragraph, the more
rapid oil flow of these lower-viscosity synthetics contributes
significantly to the efficient transfer and dissipation of heat.
*Because of all these factors, oil-temperature decreases of from 20F to
50F are quite common with the use of synthetic oil*. One might even say
that the heat-reduction properties of synthetics are synergistic...by
helping to reduce its own temperature, the synthetic oil is
simultaneously enhancing the lubricant's overall performance
characteristics....]

 

[Nessism]

I've hung out on the Bob is the oil Guy forum long enough to know that synthetic oil does not reduce wear under normal usage, nor will it result in lower operating temperatures. Synthetic oil will last longer, flow better when cold, and not flash off as easily in high temps which allows it to protect better in high heat. Those are it's main positive characteristics. If you don't believe me go to BITOG and look at the oil analysis threads. If anything, dino oils tend to show less wear particles in the oil than synthetic. The numbers don't lie.

 

[Guest]

I won't argue about it, merely state that in my usage, it did bring down temps....it's why I asked the poster to report his findings too, either way.

Tony.

 

[TheCafeKid]

I've used both full synthetic (royal purple) and standard auto grade oil as well as rotella 15-40. In all cases I've never noticed an operating temp change and i have a guage. What I HAVE noticed is that the oil breaks down either faster or slower depending on the oil. The royal purple broke down just as quick as the rotella. So that was the one and only time I spent 30+ bucks on oil for my Bike. The other thing I noticed is that my clutch didn't throw a fit over full synthetic contrary to popular opinion/belief. Now the standard grade car (not EC) Castrol I used seemed to break down the fastest. (I'm grading this using the two tells I use to tell me when it's time to change my oil besides mileage and those are top end racket and smoothness of shifting, I don't necessarily change my oil every 2-2500 miles, but rather when the bike tells me it wants it changed. If I've run it hard in the summer, rowing thru gears at a rally and running in high rev ranges for long periods of time I might change it 1500-1700 miles in but never longer than 2500 miles) Rotella I've found seems to handle the temps (it gets hot and humid in the Ohio River vally in July) and punishment every bit as well as high dollar synthetic oils, and is easier on my wallet. Castrol breaks down too quick, and I'd assume the same for most car grade oils. Motorcycle oil is simply rediculous to me and I'm not gonna pay for it when other oils are easier to obtain and cheaper and do just as well a job.
Having become aquainted intimately with diesel motors growing up, and knowing the pressure and strains diesel oil is confronted with regularly and how important it is to maintaining a diesel motor for long periods of time, i don't think there is a more adequate product on the market for our GS needs. Just my .02.