Removing the cylinder head: Should I leave the oil in, or drain it?

[Guest]

I ask because if I'm going to remove the cylinder head, I might as well clean the tops of the pistons, right?
I imagine if I tried to turn it without some form of lubrication to bring each to the top, bad things will happen... or would it be safe, since it wouldn't generate heat like a running engine when turned by hand?

 

[Who Dat?]

Based on what I have read in your last few threads, this is going to be a fun thread.

 

[Agemax]

if you are taking the head off, you should take the barrels off as well and replace the base gasket and O rings, otherwise it WILL leak after you reassemble it all, then you will have to pull it all off again.

 

[Guest]

if you are taking the head off, you should take the barrels off as well and replace the base gasket and O rings, otherwise it WILL leak after you reassemble it all, then you will have to pull it all off again.

The base gasket being the gasket between the cylinder head and the area where the pistons live?
The barrels go around the pistons, right? If so, I've heard them referred to as piston sleeves.

 

[bwringer]

There's plenty of residual oil, so you don't need to worry about oil supply when turning the engine to set timing. You can drain the oil in the pan or leave it; it doesn't really matter.

That said, when you reassemble the engine, you do need to lubricate the bores; just smear some engine oil on with your fingers. And you also need to lubricate the cam journals with engine oil when you install the cams. This is all described clearly in the manuals.

 

[TeamDar]

There is no way that this is going to turn out well. Just saying.

 

[allojohn]

There is no way that this is going to turn out well. Just saying.

Please don't do this Zombie, you're struggling enough as it is. If you take this step you may very well kill this machine.
You need local assistance - TheGSR forum can only do so much. Please look for local help....

 

[Guest]

Please don't do this Zombie, you're struggling enough as it is. If you take this step you may very well kill this machine.
You need local assistance - TheGSR forum can only do so much. Please look for local help....

I know, this is all stuff I've never done before, and I'm worried I'll mess up something. Before, I had scarcely touched a motorcycle, let alone worked on one. All of this has been a learning experience to me.
Working with the guts of an engine is magnitudes greater than undoing a screw. However, I don't have the money to pay a proper mechanic (being unemployed and no one will hire me), and I've made several posts on Nextdoor, asking for any shadetree mechanics nearby, but no such luck. Disability payments are all I get, since I was disbarred from donating plasma due to an autistic reaction I had with a smell. I can only do so much on a limited income, which is why this has taken so long.

So I'm either stuck doing this myself, or I might as well hang up my helmet and stick to an electric bicycle.

 

[Datsa Noydb]

It's even on sale!

https://www.ecotric.com/products/pr...MI2fzZjbW76QIVTL7ACh01qg0rEAQYBSABEgLYifD_BwE

 

[Agemax]

The more you take apart, the more money its going to cost to put it back together again, so why not just leave it and do just the bare essentials to get it running. No more, no less.

 

[Guest]

It's even on sale!

https://www.ecotric.com/products/pr...MI2fzZjbW76QIVTL7ACh01qg0rEAQYBSABEgLYifD_BwE

I already have one... but thanks, I get what you're saying...

 

[Guest]

The more you take apart, the more money its going to cost to put it back together again, so why not just leave it and do just the bare essentials to get it running. No more, no less.

It does run, but not well. I can only run it with the choke out (minimum is a finger's width from the bottom before it dies). If I keep running it with the valve shims too tight, I'm worried that's going to cause more damage in the long run. I got this bike for $200, and it clearly wasn't maintained. When you buy a used bike, you often buy someone else's problems. But it was either that, or wait for a "someday" which would never come.
I need to replace the valve shims, easy and cheap. But that still won't do much if there's an air leak from an intake boot that isn't secured all the way. And to do that, I have to fix a screw hole. And to do that properly, I have to take the head off. The idea is to drill out the hole, re-tap it, and put a helicoil in it. But I can't do that if the head is still on the engine.

 

[Guest]

I need to replace the valve shims, easy and cheap. But that still won't do much if there's an air leak from an intake boot that isn't secured all the way. And to do that, I have to fix a screw hole. And to do that properly, I have to take the head off. The idea is to drill out the hole, re-tap it, and put a helicoil in it. But I can't do that if the head is still on the engine.

You have all that correct, but you forgot one critical part. :-k

Even the best of us are not able to remove that broken bolt, fill the hole that was improperly drilled, then drill and re-tap a proper hole for the proper bolt. You will have to take that to a machinist, and the bill there will probably be more than what you spent for the bike. You will also spend at least that much for all the proper gaskets.

With your lack of finances and apparent mechanical expertise, are you SURE you want to tackle this?

 

[allojohn]

It does run, but not well. I can only run it with the choke out (minimum is a finger's width from the bottom before it dies). If I keep running it with the valve shims too tight, I'm worried that's going to cause more damage in the long run. I got this bike for $200, and it clearly wasn't maintained. When you buy a used bike, you often buy someone else's problems. But it was either that, or wait for a "someday" which would never come.
I need to replace the valve shims, easy and cheap. But that still won't do much if there's an air leak from an intake boot that isn't secured all the way. And to do that, I have to fix a screw hole. And to do that properly, I have to take the head off. The idea is to drill out the hole, re-tap it, and put a helicoil in it. But I can't do that if the head is still on the engine.

OK, you should live with the leaky valve cover gasket and work on getting the bike running better. Again, the broken bolt can wait and is not contributing to the poor running conditions. Your focus now is the valve shims - you have to get this right or all else will be adversely affected. At a later date replacing the valve gasket with a Tennessee Real Gasket may stem the leak. Heck, I'll have one sent to you.

 

[Agemax]

It does run, but not well. I can only run it with the choke out (minimum is a finger's width from the bottom before it dies). If I keep running it with the valve shims too tight, I'm worried that's going to cause more damage in the long run. I got this bike for $200, and it clearly wasn't maintained. When you buy a used bike, you often buy someone else's problems. But it was either that, or wait for a "someday" which would never come.
I need to replace the valve shims, easy and cheap. But that still won't do much if there's an air leak from an intake boot that isn't secured all the way. And to do that, I have to fix a screw hole. And to do that properly, I have to take the head off. The idea is to drill out the hole, re-tap it, and put a helicoil in it. But I can't do that if the head is still on the engine.

All that can be done with the engine intact. If you cant get good access to remove the broken bolt, take the engine out. That costs nothing and gives you much greater ease of access.
Get the shims done and sort the carbs out.

 

[Guest]

You have all that correct, but you forgot one critical part. :-k

Even the best of us are not able to remove that broken bolt, fill the hole that was improperly drilled, then drill and re-tap a proper hole for the proper bolt. You will have to take that to a machinist, and the bill there will probably be more than what you spent for the bike. You will also spend at least that much for all the proper gaskets.

With your lack of finances and apparent mechanical expertise, are you SURE you want to tackle this?

No harm in asking. I plan to ask around at local machine shops, but couldn't today, with it being Sunday. If it costs more than buying a new head, then I'll just buy a new head. Found one on eBay, but I'll have to wait until next month, when my next disability check comes in: https://www.ebay.com/itm/1980-SUZUK...emsV2&_trksid=p2047675.c100047.m2108#viTabs_0

 

[Guest]

OK, you should live with the leaky valve cover gasket and work on getting the bike running better. Again, the broken bolt can wait and is not contributing to the poor running conditions. Your focus now is the valve shims - you have to get this right or all else will be adversely affected. At a later date replacing the valve gasket with a Tennessee Real Gasket may stem the leak. Heck, I'll have one sent to you.

I know, but I have to wait until at least the 3rd of next month, when my deposit comes in, in order to buy valve shims. Most sites that sell them individually are sold out, but I believe dimecitycycles sells them individually. Speaking of shims (since no one is replying to my last thread), I swapped Intake #1 with Intake #4 (2.70 and 2.60X, respectively). Intake #1 now has light drag at 0.04 and 0.03, my two thinnest blades (I don't remember if there's 2 zeros, or just one, and I can't be bothered to go back downstairs to check. I just pushed a Ninja EX500 across slick plywood and soft ground, and then came upstairs, I'm drained). But yeah, I don't know which to mark it as.
And I was told that air leaks will bork up how an engine runs. I can get the proper valve shims, but will still have that misaligned hole. A screw goes in it, yes. But it doesn't bite well now that I removed it again.

 

[bwringer]

Hm, seems there's a bit of history with this one...


FWIW, you can reach the intake boot screws with a drill with the engine in the frame.

I've used a right-angle adapter, but a right angle drill is maybe $25 with a coupon at Harbor Freight and would be the better way to go.

HF also has a set of left-handed drill bits that work quite well.

Of course, there's a lot of technique involved in doing this successfully.

But there's no way I would even consider removing an engine or a cylinder head just for a broken intake boot screw.

 

[allojohn]

Somehow I missed the broken bolt is on an intake boot, thought it was a valve cover bolt. Never mind, move along now...

 

[Guest]

Hm, seems there's a bit of history with this one...


FWIW, you can reach the intake boot screws with a drill with the engine in the frame.

I've used a right-angle adapter, but a right angle drill is maybe $25 with a coupon at Harbor Freight and would be the better way to go.

HF also has a set of left-handed drill bits that work quite well.

Of course, there's a lot of technique involved in doing this successfully.

But there's no way I would even consider removing an engine or a cylinder head just for a broken intake boot screw.

That's what I've been doing, with a regular drill. Something of a pain, and that's probably why the new hole is off center.
That right angle drill looks like it would solve a lot of problems...
But it will have to wait until next month.