Starting Issue

[Big Red]

Gidday folks,

Ok so i have finally got my bike back together. everyhting seems fine (clean carbs (bench sync'd) just reinstalled while watching playoff hockey GO SENS GO) plugs all have spark, i have compression in the cylinders. charged Battery, choke on. But the thing is still not starting. I was able to confirm the carbs are getting good fuel from the tank (petcock working)(drained one carb). what am i missing. when i hit the electric start it trys to turn over but all get is the starter running giving little puffs of it firing somthing but that is it.

I am still new to all of this. Basically starting from basic knowledge of everything.

Any help would be great.

 

[MisterCinders]

Check the thread linked in my signature for some basic non-starting tips.

Check the plugs. Are they dry? Fuel problem. Fuel in the carb bowls is on its way, but if it's not making it into the cylinder, you get no love.

Are they wet? Spark problem. Check your plugs for spark. Check your ignition timing also. Spark at the wrong time equals no spark.

Another thing that is not in my thread, float heights. I had some starting problems after my last tear down because I misread a spec and set the floats wrong.

Finally, even though you have good compression, check your valve clearances. Tight valves will screw up your starting, and worse . . .

 

[Steve]

One other tip: use your "choke" correctly. :-k

When using your "choke", do NOT touch the throttle, leave it completely closed.

Make any adjustments in engine speed with the "choke" control.


You mentioned "clean carbs". Did you spray them or dunk them? If you just sprayed them, go back, dunk them properly, then we'll talk.

.

 

[Big Red]

I will check if the plugs are wet when i get home and check the air flow.

I did not dip the carbs (it was done before storage.) just sprayed them since they were pretty much crystal clear just a little varnish in one bowl.

Plugs were a little dirt but were cleaned up before trying to start.

when using the choke no throttle is given.

I hope there is nothing wrong with the valves cause that might be a little over my head to adjust them. Also i do not want to have to remove these damn carbs again anytime soon. PITA.....

Thanks again for the help..

 

[sachsaca]

check them ther valves

check them ther valves

I can't tell you enough or how many times folks on here have not done this and had many problems, like bad gremlins. I watched this guy on this video and then did my own. I have never done anything like this before, so you can... He's kinda dry but you will learn how to adjust your valves.
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-2015554469142545363#

 

[tkent02]

He's showing how not to do it. Don't snap the tool off the side of the bucket over and over, hold it in place with a screwdriver or something. Snapping it off the side makes the tool's edge round, then it snaps off worse.

 

[Big Red]

Ok so i went home last night again tried to start with choke out and NOT touching the throttle. same thing. I pulled the plugs all seemed dry and i am assuming that when you say wet you mean WET. almost dripping with liquid bot just a little moist. put the plugs back in and one at a time checked again for spark. they all sparked but again in my little to no knowledge base they might not be sparking enough. i am going to try the starter fliud trick straight in to see what happens. if it fires for a bit then goes out i know it is the fuel and not the spark. Anything else i should try. by the sounds of all this talk there is no fuel coming out of the carbs. to check this could i just remove one of the hex bolts on the inlet boot and stick a q-tip in turn the engine over a few times then pull out the q-tip to see if it is moist. in my mind this would work. and would help narrow down the problem some more.

Thanks for the advice. I have also inquired about getting the tools to check the valves (buddy has them somewhere just needs to find them).

 

[Steve]

... i am going to try the starter fliud trick straight in to see what happens. ...

Noooo!!!

Please don't use starter fluid. ray:

You say the carbs were dipped "before storage". When they were stored, were they prepared for storage, and how long were they "in storage"?

If the carbs were not prepared for storage, you might need to dip them again. Spraying in the float bowl area does not clean up the passages that are buried deep inside the carb. If you are not getting gas through the jets, into the air stream, those passages are the suspect areas. Please clean your carbs again. Do them right, you won't have to do them again. By the way, new boots go a long way to making carb work a bit easier. It's still cramped on that 550, but still very workable.

.

 

[Steve]

He's showing how not to do it. Don't snap the tool off the side of the bucket over and over, hold it in place with a screwdriver or something. Snapping it off the side makes the tool's edge round, then it snaps off worse.

Not only that, but you can shatter a shim if it's not quite fully-seated in the bucket.

Can't post pictures while at work,

I will edit this when I get back to the hotel this evening.

.

 

[Big Red]

Noooo!!!


You say the carbs were dipped "before storage". When they were stored, were they prepared for storage, and how long were they "in storage"?
.

i got the bike off a buddy who before storing had the carbs cleaned at a shop. he but he never synced them since he only gave them the carbs not the bike. the only reason i did not do the dip myself when i was giving them a once over was that i could not get the gang apart (stuck screws, started to strip) tried everything but impact (didn,t have one and was advised to not use it on carbs anyways) I was able to remove all jets and confirm all paths were clear with air and carb cleaner. everything was already clean but the float needles were stuck. so i do not know what the dip could do that i havn't done already.

Do you think my idea of using the q-tip in the hole of the hex.bolt on the inlet boots would work???

 

[cableguy]

For the gang screws grab on with channel locks or sharpen a chisel and tap it counterclockwise. Whoever told you impact drivers aren't recommended must have thought you meant air tools not the handheld hammer-actuated one. Those work well as long as you're smart about it.

 

[Steve]

I was able to remove all jets and confirm all paths were clear with air and carb cleaner.

Just because you get some through does not mean that it's enough.

There are many passages, especially in the pilot circuit, that are hard to spray anything through.

everything was already clean but the float needles were stuck. so i do not know what the dip could do that i havn't done already.

If everything was "clean", what was sticking the floats? :-k

Would you believe that it was something that was NOT "clean"?

Those same deposits that were sticking the floats could easily restrict, if not clog, the small passages inside the carbs.

As you are finding out, it's a meticulous process, and any "shortcuts" end up being "longcuts".

Also, you can not really trust what a previous owner says has been done to the bike, unless you were there to witness it yourself.

.

 

[Big Red]

ok you got me i have started to take the carbs apart again. to do a full clean dip and all (now i know i can use a hammer impact driver to break up the gang) the first thing i noticed that the work i did doing the bench sync i guess was not that great or done wrong seeing that all the buterflys are completly closed. would this have been the issue stopping the fuel from going to the cylinders... but everything else still looked good. tomorrow is tear down day....

GO SENS GO!!!!!

Thanks again for all the help....

 

[Big Red]

Update:

Dipped cleaned Carbs, Just waiting on new rings. believe i found the problem so we will see when i get everything back together after getting the new ring kit.

Thanks for all the help.

 

[tom203]

Update:

Dipped cleaned Carbs, Just waiting on new rings. believe i found the problem so we will see when i get everything back together after getting the new ring kit.
.

Sounds good, proceed carefully. make sure to bench sync carbs to get them in ballpark before reinstalling on motor.

 

[Big Red]

ok now everything back together. and..... nothing. fuel not even getting to the carbs now from the tank. I know the petcock works as the carbs were getting fuel before redoing them. I was taking the tank out of the equation last night when i got pulled away. any suggestions?

 

[bonanzadave]

When you switch the petcock to PRI do you get fuel ? Its just gravity. ON and RES you'll need to suc or have vacuum on the other line to get flow.

 

[Big Red]

I knew that was going to be asked. The petcock is missing the lever so i can't just switch it to pri or on. i have to use a screwdriver to turn the petcock. but using even that method even when the tank is off the bike i turn it and can't get it on pri. I have been looking for a used petcock but nothing yet. no funds right now to purchase a placement and it was working so no great need to replace right away.

EDIT: just looking over the manual for the bike and found that there is no lever for my petcock. it IS controlled by the a screwdriver. and it has now shown me what position the PRI should be in. i don't feel so bad anymore.

 

[tom203]

If you discover that your petcock is IFFY,don't waste your money on used petcock- just get new and not worry about it again. This Florida guy seems to have your model-leverless- $50


http://www.georgefixs.com/servlet/the-524/1980-GS550,-GS750,-GS850,/Detail

 

[Big Red]

Got it running!!!!!!!!!!!!!! still was not able to get the petcock into the Prime position but i just took the vaccuum tube off the carbs gave it a good suck to get the gas going. did that until the carbs were filled. put the tube back on and it fired right up .. now i can't get the RPMs down. rpms are staying up about 3500 i have adjusted the idle screw but it seems to not be changing. I still have to carb tune but need to get the RPMs steady to be able to do that. will try to back off the idle some more tonight to see what happens. Thanks for all the help so far guys. this forum has been a great help.