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Swapping to 530 Chain and Sprockets: A Few Questions

  • Thread starter Thread starter MadCapsule
  • Start date Start date
M

MadCapsule

Guest
So my shiny new 530 rx-ring chain, sprockets and 6mm spacer just arrived today and I have a few general questions about installation.

I've read up on the removal of the wheel and chain and it seems pretty straight forward - it's always easier to take things apart. Similar to taking up slack in the chain, only expanded, so to speak.

Reassembly is where I have concerns.

If I understand correctly, the 6mm spacer goes on the outside of the front sprocket. I'm having a hard time picturing how that's supposed to work, but I suppose it will make more sense when I see it in execution.

As for assembling the chain, I'm seeing a lot of different styles of tools with several different names. According to the box the chain came in, the masterlink is a rivet type. Apparently, there are hollow nose and soft nose rivet masterlinks. Assuming the names are self-explanatory, mine appears to be a hollow nose type. It seems like this tool should have all my bases covered, correct? That seems expensive, but not nearly as expensive as some of the other chain tools I'm seeing.

When assembling the masterlink, I'm guessing the idea is to mushroom out the heads of the pins a little bit to keep the inner and outer plates held together. How do I know when to stop?

The tools for assembling the clip type masterlinks generally look to be less expensive, but my old chain had a clip type masterlink on it and that sucker just up and disappeared on me during a ride. I got home and inspected the chain because of a mysterious noise that had started at the end of my ride and it was then that I discovered that the retaining clip had come off and the inner link was about halfway separated from the outer link. The noise was that section of chain working its way through the sprockets.

Before you ask, yes, I kept the chain properly lubed and adjusted. It was a standard, non o-ring chain that was on there when I bought the bike last year and I think I just hammered it into the grave.

I believe I calculated the chain length I would need to be 115 links. The new chain is 116 links. Can I just compensate for that extra link with the chain adjusters on the bike, or should I just remove it? Also, one whole link consists of one inner and one outer plate, yes?

I come from a number of years of bicycle commuting and when it's time to replace a chain, I'm used to a new chain being shiny and dry to the touch, but with a waxy lubricant coating all the links. I was expecting the same or similar with this chain, but it's covered in what almost appears to be white lithium grease. It's a bit thicker than white lithium grease, but still easily moved around with a finger. Inside the box, the chain came wrapped in wax paper and the lubricant has started to bleed though in some spots, like greasy french fries in a to-go bag.

Is that normal? Should I clean it all off first? It kind of looks like crap, but I've always been told that a chain is never as well-lubricated as it is when it's brand new.

Is there anything else I'm missing? Any other details I should know?
 
The white stuff covering your chain is to keep the links from rusting. you could wipe it off, and re-wax, or just add to whats there. I chose to just give it a fresh coat of chain wax after a few miles
 
That is not a lubricant, that is a preservative. Its function is to keep the chain from rusting before it reaches the consumer.
Clean it all off (a kerosene rag is best), let it dry, then spray it with a wax or a lube.
Again, that is not a lube, don't run with it on there.
 
Not a lube. Got it.

Any thoughts on the chain length and riveting the master link together?
 
To rivet the master link a simple anvil and beveled punch will do the trick in about 10 seconds. If you've got a friend to hold the chain straight it sure makes things easier. Just make sure you don't flare it so much it starts to crack. As for the chain length, I'm not sure of the length but what ever the correct number is you should cut off the extra links for sure, do not use the chain adjusters to compensate for chain length. 115 'sounds' really long by the way but again I'm not sure, Z1 has a simple conversion sheet on their website for 530 conversions, or they did till their site changed.
 
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Not a lube. Got it.

Any thoughts on the chain length and riveting the master link together?

I'm planning my order for a 530 conversion too, from what I've read here, it seems 116 links will work but that 114 might be better. With 116 links, you come close to using the entire length of the chain adjusters to get the chain to the proper tension.

If I'm understanding the rivet master link vs. clip master link choice, the rivet master requires a special tool, many here use the clip style master link with no issues assuming the closed end is pointing forward and some wrap the link with a 'safety' wire.




This thread is for a '79 750 and what was ordered. See post #2.

See thread http://www.thegsresources.com/_forum/showthread.php?t=132349&highlight=EM95-47318
 
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OK, I'm making some progress, but I have a few more questions.

The nut holding the sprocket in place is bigger than any of the sockets I currently have. I did a quick search here and found that the 16V 750 takes a 32mm socket and I found another post about a 450 also needing a 32mm socket. Are these 32mm across the board, or does an 8V 750 front sprocket need a different size socket?

Second, I made the mistake of throwing out my old chain before removing the front sprocket. If it turns out that putting the transmission in gear isn't enough to keep the sprocket from spinning while trying to remove the nut, do I have any other options other than destroying the nut with a nut splitter?

Lastly (for now), after I put the sprocket cover back on for the night, I re-attached the clutch cable to the shift arm (I might not be using the correct terminology here, but it's the piece that the cable connects to under the clutch adjustment cover). Now, when I squeeze the clutch lever, there's no resistance, aside from the small tension spring. Something clearly isn't engaging properly now. What should I be looking for to fix this when I do the final reassembly? I don't have the screws for the cover tightened down all the way, because I'm just going to be taking them off again soon. Could that be what the issue is here?
 
Not a lube. Got it.

Any thoughts on the chain length and riveting the master link together?

Yeah it isn't a lube, just clean it off and apply a good chain lube. Most talked about chain lube here has been DuPont's Teflon Mutliuse. Or use a lube made for O and X ring chains. I've always used PJ1's Blue label. As for the master link, I've always used the clip links for the last 32 years and never had one come off. Just make sure the clip isn't bent, installed in the right direction and it is seated up against the link so it clicks in. After I install it, I clean it off and apply some silicone to the clip, now it won't fly off. Ah one more thing, always have a spare or two master link just in case. Never know.

Just use your new chain to lock it down. All you need is a clip link to hold the chain together while you take the nut off. As for the clutch, don't worry about it until you have everything installed and buttoned up. I think all you have is a loose cable that is flexing because it isn't set up yet.
 
Yeah it isn't a lube, just clean it off and apply a good chain lube. Most talked about chain lube here has been DuPont's Teflon Mutliuse. Or use a lube made for O and X ring chains. I've always used PJ1's Blue label. As for the master link, I've always used the clip links for the last 32 years and never had one come off. Just make sure the clip isn't bent, installed in the right direction and it is seated up against the link so it clicks in. After I install it, I clean it off and apply some silicone to the clip, now it won't fly off. Ah one more thing, always have a spare or two master link just in case. Never know.

Just use your new chain to lock it down. All you need is a clip link to hold the chain together while you take the nut off. As for the clutch, don't worry about it until you have everything installed and buttoned up. I think all you have is a loose cable that is flexing because it isn't set up yet.

Sounds good. I just got a clip link in the mail, so I'll give that a whirl.

I'll post an update when I've gotten everything switched out and buttoned up.

Thanks!
 
Lastly (for now), after I put the sprocket cover back on for the night, I re-attached the clutch cable to the shift arm (I might not be using the correct terminology here, but it's the piece that the cable connects to under the clutch adjustment cover). Now, when I squeeze the clutch lever, there's no resistance, aside from the small tension spring. Something clearly isn't engaging properly now. What should I be looking for to fix this when I do the final reassembly? I don't have the screws for the cover tightened down all the way, because I'm just going to be taking them off again soon. Could that be what the issue is here?

You probably didn't seat the shifter arm fully when you put that back on. I ran into this when I replaced my clutch cable. Everything seemed right but I had way less tension in the clutch lever. When I started the bike, it would stall out once I dropped it into 1st, even with the clutch pulled in fully.

HTH
 
Lastly (for now), after I put the sprocket cover back on for the night, I re-attached the clutch cable to the shift arm (I might not be using the correct terminology here, but it's the piece that the cable connects to under the clutch adjustment cover). Now, when I squeeze the clutch lever, there's no resistance, aside from the small tension spring. Something clearly isn't engaging properly now. What should I be looking for to fix this when I do the final reassembly? I don't have the screws for the cover tightened down all the way, because I'm just going to be taking them off again soon. Could that be what the issue is here?

Update and follow up questions.

I rode over to MadCap's place to help with this. Thinking it was the same issue I ran into, we pulled the lifter arm to make sure it seated properly, etc. When I arrived, I smugly expected to sort him out in 10 minutes, since that's all it took when I had the same issue. Several hours later, we still cannot make that clutch lifter work properly. :o

Note that this clutch lifter does NOT have the worm drive of other models (the one's in every frigging search result -BTW:mad:).



07.gif


We got the arm on there and seated onto the release post, turned in the set screw to contact, then backed it out about a 1/2 turn, before securing the lock nut. Adjusted the cable to give plenty of slack to set the arm first, etc. The lifter pushes in like it should and the resistance at the clutch lever is healthy. Not matter what we did, however, it does not seem to push the clutch plate back enough to clear. That release mechanism (i.e., #6 in the diagram) is turning and presses in about as far as it should from what we could see. For some reason, it does not press in enough.

It also seems to need a bit more travel at the arm side. Even disconnecting the cable, every time I tried to reset the arm, it seemed like it needed just a hair more swing than I could get. In other words, the lowest point of the arm clockwise, only permitted so many degrees of swing and possibly a bit less than the full 1/8 or so turn available for pressing in the lifter.

MadCap did not touch the clutch for this job, and it engaged and disengaged properly before the new sprocket etc. The only ideas I have for why things might not work now are either the lifter arm assemble (in the pic), or the new sprocket and some effect on the drive shaft, preventing the clutch from clearing it.

MadCap was going to check if there was a stock spacer for his old sprocket. Not the spacer in the OP that goes on top of the new sprocket, but the original one behind it. He wasn't sure if there was one there before, and only had one spacer (the new top one) when he put the new sprockets on. My thought was the missing spacer allowed the drive side of this to press in too far, more than the clutch can clear. Looking over the fiche images, however, I am not sure that the sprocket spacer could have this effect.

Other ideas?
 
my clutch doesnt fully disengage if I have the adjuster at 1/2 turn out either. try 1/4 turn out. take up the slack in the cable until you have a 4mm or so gap between the hand lever and its holder when resistance begins (I apologize but I dont know how to explain that better). The lever(#7 in diagram above) will not be at its lowest point, nor should it.
 
my clutch doesnt fully disengage if I have the adjuster at 1/2 turn out either. try 1/4 turn out. take up the slack in the cable until you have a 4mm or so gap between the hand lever and its holder when resistance begins (I apologize but I dont know how to explain that better). The lever(#7 in diagram above) will not be at its lowest point, nor should it.

Even with the screw bottomed out, the clutch won't disengage.
 
Yeah, I'm totally stumped.

I decided to give it a rest for a day. Spent my entire weekend hunched over the bike and didn't even want to look at the thing today.

I'll poke around in there some more tomorrow, but I'm pretty much out of ideas.
 
NEW CHAINS are covered in White Lithium Grease -a lubricant-- NOT cosmoline which is an airtight storage coating.

as far as the clutch problem was it correct before the chain or have you done the clutch fibers lately??

sounds to me like it is inside the clutch area not the ball and ramp mechanisim
 
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The clutch was fine before I replaced the chain. I haven't replaced the fibers.

The lever has always been pretty stiff. I believe the PO installed stiff aftermarket springs, as the cable is properly lubed. Could the springs have anything to do with it?
 
OK. I think I have the issue with the clutch taken care of. It seems that the screws for the sprocket cover weren't torqued down tight enough.

I turned them in some more and that send to have given the extra range of movement that was needed.

I'll have to double check the wheel alignment after work today.
 
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