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The non-running GS450ET is now RUNNING!

  • Thread starter Thread starter surviverguy
  • Start date Start date
Take this:

IMG_4755.jpg


Then this:

IMG_4738.jpg


And bend to shape:

IMG_4762.jpg


Weld it up (or in my case get a mate to do it who's better at it):

IMG_4779.jpg


Paint it:

IMG_4791.jpg


And there you go:

IMG_4794.jpg


IMG_4792.jpg


IMG_4793.jpg


You have a reasonable facsimile of the optional sports rack that is made of unobtanium...
 
Pete, thanks again for posting. I'll be welding up something similar for mine soon. My handlebar got bent today as I had a low speed drop on my driveway.
I didn't get hurt from the fall- wearing ATGAT and crashing at about 10 mph. I was looking ahead and didn't notice that I steered into a mudhole...reactive steering got me wiggling like a snake and I wasn't able to regain control. Dropped the bike on it's left side. Bent handlebar, broken clutch lever, left front turn signal pushed in, and a few misc. scratches. Swapped out the broken clutch lever with one off a junk Yamaha in my yard and jumped back on again.
I could buy another handlebar off eBay or use the Yamaha's or repair the bent bar or continue riding as is.
Rode the bike to work with the bent handlebar. I think I'll take the bar off the bike, straighten it using a pipe and a vise and then weld a cross tube like motocross bars.
Assembled the spare carb today with raised needles and 20/120 jets. Fuel economy from first trip worked out to about 50 mpg. This second carb with raised needles feels better in the midrange and good at full throttle but rough at 3/4 throttle. It isn't synchrd yet. It feels less powerful also.
 
Bugger! If it's only a light bend it should straighten out ok.

You may have made the second set of carbs a bit rich perhaps... that would explain why it's rough at 3/4 and feels less powerful.

You'll definitely have to shoot up pic's of how you do you carry rack, very keen to see other ideas besides what I did.
 
The handlebar is bent pretty serious. My left hand isn't confortable and there's reduced leverage. The tube kinked where it bent- no pretty.
The second carb is too lean not too rich. I feel surging not bogging. If I could find some needles to fit with more taper I'd put some in. I haven't been able to find any. I'm researching the xs650 Yamaha parts as it also used a bs34 carb. Maybe a larger main will help but it's mostly needing more tapered needles or possibly a larger emulsion tube.
I'm gonna do some plug chops at wot (full throttle) to choose the main. The 125 is likely best maybe 130.
I'm gonna get a black abs plastic trunk for the back. I'll build the rear rack to hold it after I have the trunk. Access to the seat lock is critical. The main support will be the black tube grab bar like yours for the front of the rack. For supporting the rear of the rack, I'll either use diagonal bracing to the same like yours or use the rear turn signal mounting or some other mod.
Need the trunk first to help me decide.
 
Why don't you just chuck a set of motorcross 'bars on there that already have the brace? I love the ones I have on mine...

For the carbs, someone mentioned Mikes XS has a jetting kit for the BS34 carbs that appear the same as ours and that might be worth a shot, a hell of a lot cheaper than the Dynojet option from memory.

As for the rack, yes seat lock access was critical for me too and I can still get to it even if something's strapped to the rack.
 
I checked out Mike's XS for kits and for needles. Their jet kit has 4N8 needles and some jets and a drill bit. I didn't buy the kit as I already have jets. I bought a pair of the needles 4N8's and also a pair of 4JN19 needles. The stock GS450 1980 needles are 4N2. I haven't been able to find much information about those Mikuni needles. The first number (4) is the length 40-50 mm. The other letters and numbers refer to the tapering. Mike's needles were $6.50 each. I'll see how they compare with stock needles when they arrive in a week. I'll keep you posted on the jetting results.
New handlebars not decided yet.
Trunk- not decided yet.
 
I bought some used GS450 handlebars. I'm gonna weld a crosstube using 7/8 tube from the bent bars. There are lots of cool accessories for 7/8" bars. A crosstube of 7/8 will allow room for extra stuff. As it is the bars don't have much room for extras.

and bought another clutch perch




and bidding on an accessory switch

 
Bought this topcase (trunk). It was only $45.00 with free shipping. It's pretty large unlike lots of the small, cheap cases.

"
New, Never Used, (Still in box) Mat Black Finish

Case is 16" L x 20" W x 12" H. Because of the curvature of the case the dimensions may be off slightly. (outside dimension measurements)

Universal mounting hardware included. (nuts, bolts, washers and brackets to mount to luggage rack)

Case comes with a plastic mounting base plate that locks into the bottom of the case with the key lock.
Nice mat black finish. Make your bike look very sporty.
Large Helmet fits inside
Check out some of my customer installed cases below:
Check our Cool Gear Ebay store for other cool deals! "
 
I checked out Mike's XS for kits and for needles. Their jet kit has 4N8 needles and some jets and a drill bit. I didn't buy the kit as I already have jets. I bought a pair of the needles 4N8's and also a pair of 4JN19 needles. The stock GS450 1980 needles are 4N2. I haven't been able to find much information about those Mikuni needles. The first number (4) is the length 40-50 mm. The other letters and numbers refer to the tapering. Mike's needles were $6.50 each. I'll see how they compare with stock needles when they arrive in a week. I'll keep you posted on the jetting results.
New handlebars not decided yet.
Trunk- not decided yet.

Cool, I have 4C2 needles in mine so they must've changed them for Australia like the mains. Pretty sure my main was a 117.5 rather than the listed 115... and my needles are adjustable too.

To determine the Mikuni needle dimensions, get a hold of the Sudco PDF catalog as it outlines the way it works. It's a bit confusing...

The motorcross 'bars I have are still 7/8" and they're wide enough I've been able to put my hand guards on no dramas as well as fit the later GSXR left control switch with choke too, and I could probably squeeze a throttle lock on the right if I want to go that path.

Good deal on the other stuff, should get you sorted.
 
Woops- Yeah they're 4C2 needles (stock)...my memory is poor.
For today's tuning exercise- I removed the 20/120 jetts and put in 30/130. I had to turn the idle mix down to 3/4 turns out to prevent hanging idle. I'm still using the stock 4C2 needles- shimmed up 1mm. My needles only have one slot. I am using 1mm thinner spacers on the top of the needles to raise them.
I just noticed today that the K and N filters say "oil before using". I never have oiled them! Oops! I've had them in my hands about twenty times already...and just now noticed the instruction!
Did I oil them? No...not yet! Going for a test ride now to fill up with gas.... again before my next trip to work.. to see how the new jetting feels. It's never been so rich before.
Carb 1 was 25/125/4C2 std. needle height / idle screw 2 turns
Carb 2 was 20/120/4C2 raised needle 1mm/ idle screw 2 turns
Carb 2 now 30/130/raised needle 1mm / idle screws at 3/4 turn.
 
Carb 2 is almost perfect at 30/130 with needles raised and idle mix 3/4....just needs a little more midrange fuel with thinner needles. Gearing could be higher. I'd sacrifice some acceleration for some higher speed. A larger front sprocket and smaller rear will do the trick. Not sure how many teeth to change yet....I'll do some searching...
 
I believe my front sprocket is 16t. Bought an 18t front sprocket. It wasn't just top end speed I was after. I wanted to slow down the shifting a bit- stretch the range between gears. If I change the rear sprocket, it won't be before it's worn out.
Bought a slipstreamer clear windshield and a new brake lever tonight. Lots of shiny new parts will be here soon! It'll be another transformation for this old machine!
 
The L's I think have 16/43 but I'm not sure how much difference that makes as they also have a 16 or 17" rear wheel...

What size rear tyre are you running? I find with my 4.10 x 18 and stock gearing that it's fine, but I'm after acceleration rather than top speed.

I do the traffic light drags every day and want to get away from the cagers but I still find I can hit the speed limit very easily when out and about for fun, so I definitely don't need more top speed.

Did your K&N's not come pre-oiled? Mine were sealed up in plastic bags from the factory and were pre-oiled. I did buy a recharge kit though which I'll probably do at the third service (11K km's).

Edit: Forgot to say if they're not oiled, then you're going to need to re-visit your jetting once they're oiled too...
 
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I'm running 18's front and rear. I'm driving mostly small state highways without many stops. I'm trying to stretch 4 and 5 gears a little to avoid 6th gear unless using the interstate. I am more accustomed to 5 speed bikes. A change of 2 teeth isn't going to be dramatic- it'll just turn about 1Krpm lower at cruising speeds ( I think). It'll still be fast off the line, just allowing a little more time between shifts.
I thought the K and N's were preoiled...it's just yesterday when I say it on the filters- "oil before using"...it made me second guess myself.
I've been a mechanic for over 25 years, just don't have a lot of experience working on mc's... The tuning is a real challenge!
The bike is running well in all throttle positions accelerating until it hits about 6Krpm. At around 6K from 1/2 to 3/4 throttle it starts surging power and then loosing power..up and down up and down..if I go to full throttle it gives full power and stops the surging/ bucking or if I reduce throttle at 6k it'll smooth out. Do you think it might be too rich? i thought it was too lean until I recently read an article about carb tuning which said that the symptom was from too much fuel...
 
That sounds a lot like my issue which is surging at probably 1/8 - 1/4 throttle, and I know for a fact my jetting is too rich still...

Only way to tell for sure is to ride it at that throttle opening constant for a few minutes and plug chop...

My surging is a PITA because that's exactly where the throttle needs to be held to do the 60kph speed limit here...
 
I put a mark on my throttle grip and a piece of tape with indicator lines of idle, 1/4, 1/2, 3/4, WOT beside the throttle to get a better idea (visual) of what was happening. It makes it a little hard for me to guess because I changed three things at one time...That's a good idea to do plug chops when and where it's messing up! Good idea there mate! I'll try that soon.
 
How to: Fit a K&N Filter and Rejet a Carburetor

by Deepak on February 4, 2010


This post is for all my fellow bike riders who wish to extract the last possible juice out of your ride. This post is regarding to the fitting of free flow air filters, its effects and how to rectify it using the method of re-jetting.
You need to consider re-jetting your bike whenever there?s been a major change to the air intakes (like installing K&N filters which allow more air to pass to the carburetor), or adding drag pipes. Both modifications will lean out the air-fuel mix. The stock jet can only allow a certain amount of fuel to pass through and is designed according to the specification of the vehicle. Installing larger jets increases fuel to the carburetor to restore the 14 parts air to 1 part fuel optimum mix. This mixture is called stoichiometric ratio. Whenever the amount of air intake is increased, the fuel part is also to be increased. In all other cases, the stock jets will take you through 95% of your riding requirements.
rejetting.jpg

Since the main jet effects all speed ranges after idle, you need to get the main jets right first, and then tune the mid-range and low end. All tuning should be done on a fully warmed up engine because that?s the way you usually ride; the spark plugs should have been previously checked and cleaned; the gas tank should be at least half full; a new or recently installed fuel filter if present; the air intake filters checked for holes, and cleaned; and all air intake and manifold connections tight and secure; the battery fully charged; and the carburetors synchronized, if it?s a multiple cylinder engine (more than one cylinder, eg: kinetic comet ) for optimum results.
We are now going to tune the carburetor without the help of a tachometer (engine speed). High speed or top end main jet sizes are determined by full open throttle performance. Low and mid-range tuning is determined mainly by how the bike feels to you as you roll the throttle. Mikuni CV carburetor is different from the Keihin CV. So is the difference with other carburetors. So tuning will be different in different vehicles.
re-jetting2.jpg

Note: If you do sense a loss of power, or rough running on a stock vehicle, it may due to some other reason. In this case re-jetting is not the solution to the current problem. Please take the bike to an authorized mechanic and rectify the problem.
HIGH SPEED JETTING
High speed performance (80 KPH and up) is controlled by the main jets. To make sure you have the right main jets, take your bike out to an open highway where you can safely (and legally) open the throttle all the way in top gear. Ride the bike full open and let the bike get to top speed. Again, do this only if you are experienced and comfortable running at top speed and you are not in danger of injuring yourself or someone else.
A. If at top speed or before, the bike runs rough, heavy throttle feel or begins to hesitant and buck, your main jet is TOO BIG. The mix is too rich (more fuel than the optimum 1 part fuel to 14 parts air) and you are getting an uneven burn and poor performance. Install smaller main jets and take the bike for another test run. Another way to determine rich mixture is, when u cold start the vehicle and if the bike starts in the very first crank the mixture is rich (no need to use the choke in this instance). Low fuel efficiency and more smoke in the exhaust than usual are some of the characteristics of a rich mixture.
B. If before top speed the engine is running smooth, but has no power, seems to be running hot or knocking from the engine and you can?t push the bike to top speed, then your main jets are too SMALL. You are running too LEAN a mix (less fuel than the optimum 1 part fuel to 14 parts air) for maximum engine performance. Put in LARGER main jets and take the bike out for another test run. Another way to determine lean mixture is the difficulty u feel when cold starting. Even after repeated cranking, if the engine does not start, the mixture is lean. When u closes the throttle in a downhill, if u hears popping or cracking sound from the exhaust, it is again due to the lean mixture.
MID-RANGE OR MID-SPEED TUNING
The carburetor needle controls mid-range performance. The needle tapers down to a point that fits into the main jet. The needle is lifted upward (along with the slide) by the carburetor diaphragm as the air flow increases through the carburetor. As the needle moves upward it is withdrawn from the main jet, allowing more fuel to mix with the increased air volume. All that is needed to modify mid-range performance is to place (or remove) one or more small, thin washers between the diaphragm and the head of the carburetor needle where it?s held in the diaphragm. Adding washers effectively raises the tapered needle further out of the main jet at all engine rpm?s and allows more fuel to mix with air to create a richer mix. Removing a washer effectively leans out the air-fuel mix.
There?s usually no need to replace the stock needles since they have proven over time to provide good performance and good gas mileage. If you do use a third party needle for increased performance, then anticipate lower fuel efficiency.
Mid-range tuning is accomplished mainly by how the bike performance feels to you. If there?s a smooth increase in power as you roll the throttle, then you?re there. If there?s a slow response or there?s no power, then the mix may be too LEAN and you may need to add one or more washers to richen the mix. If the bike accelerate with power, but feels rough, you may be too RICH and need to remove one or more washers to lean out the mix. Now take the bike out for a test spin.
LOW OR SLOW SPEED JETTING
Now you can tune for low end performance. If you are getting a poor pickup or hesitation off the line, or a lot of backfiring on deceleration, then you need more fuel through the pilot jet. You increase fuel flow through the pilot jet by turning the pilot jet screw OUT a half turn. It?s best to start at 2 1/2 turns OUT on the pilot screws and then increase the turns OUT 1/2 turn at a time, and go for a test run. Do these until you get the performance you want and/or there are no back fires on deceleration. If you go more than 5 or 6 FULL turns out, you will probably have to install a LARGER pilot jets. Larger pilot jets are usually needed if you have removed the stock air intakes, air box and installed K & N filters which dramatically INCREASE air intake volume.
I am not posting how to successfully repair the carburetor because of its complexity for a normal person. And friends, please make sure that a professional mechanic is always nearby if anything goes wrong.
GENERAL PROBLEM SOLVING TIPS:
If you get inconsistent running, fluctuations in power, you are probably running rich. Lean running is more likely to cut power completely. If you have poor power at small throttle openings and a surge at wider throttle then you may be running lean. Quick ways to see if you are running rich or lean.
* APPLY CHOKE AFTER WARM ? UP TO ARTIFICIALLY RICHEN THE MIXTURE.
If you bike runs better with the choke on even after a few minutes of warm ? up, your original mixture might be lean in the lower rev range. This test does strange things to the upper rev range, so don?t use it at highway speeds.
* REMOVE THE AIR FILTER COVER AND ARTIFICIALLY LEAN OUT THE MIXTURE
Temporarily remove the air liter cover (to INCREASE air to the mixture), and go for a test ride. A well tuned bike (where the air and fuel mix is right on) will run pretty badly (i.e. mixture too lean) when you do this. But if the mixture was originally too rich, the bike will run better. Then u can fix the air filter cover and lean the mixture.
If your bike?s performance has a hitch or hesitation at certain speeds or you can?t tell if it?s rich or lean, experiment by leaning out the mixture which is the easiest way to find out ? if the mixture was originally too rich, the bike will run better immediately. If the mixture was originally too lean, your bike will run worse immediately
(Use the tuning techniques listed above to adjust the low, mid- and high speed ranges).
Now u might also understood why manufacturers stick to a particular setting and not going for extreme tuning. Extreme tuning will call the need for extreme keeping up of it. Friends, it?s all about experimenting with different settings. Also if found a good setting, don?t forget to check the fuel economy too. And always ride safe!
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- Abiram Menon

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Wow ok, that makes the simple plug chop process look a little complicated...

There's a plug chop write up somewhere on BassCliff's site that makes it much simpler.

Essentially what you've done marking the throttle positions is the right way to go about it with plug chops.

I have nowhere I could possibly do top speed runs with WOT and just getting time to do plug chops, re-jet, try again is pretty much impossible for me, which is why I'm waiting for budget for the wideband.

If you have time to do them, then go for it, you'll definitely have a much better running bike!
 
I confirmed the surging was from too rich a mix by running the bike cold and noticing that the performance was better cold than when warmed up. I'm going to lean it out some. Guess I didn't need thinner needles after all!
Pete, you can do the same thing without a tuner. Just pay attention to how it runs in the first four minutes of riding compared to after ten minutes. If performance goes down when warm- it's too rich!
 
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