Thoughts on spline wear

[Burque73]

I pulled the rear wheel yesterday on my '83 850G to change the tire and noticed some wear on the driven joint in the wheel. I haven't pulled the joint from the wheel yet, but I figured since it's the dreaded gold colored one that it wasn't worth risking it and I'd just find a replacement. This bike has 49k miles on it.

There's a wheel on Ebay I've been watching, but it's got another gold colored one. The plus is it apparently came from a bike with less than 6k miles. The joint new runs around $150 so it's definitely worth buying the whole wheel, even if I scrap the rest. There is one place that has it for only $61.20 but it's back ordered and I've never used ChapMoto.

Here's my concern, the spline end of the driven gear has some wear as well. I spent a couple of hours yesterday sifting through thread after thread on this issue. Most threads are pretty old and the pics have gone away, also they mainly mention the joint itself.

Here are a couple pics of mine. Does the wear on this Driven gear spline warrant replacement or jeopardize the new joint to wear even faster? I'd hate to unnecessarily dismantle or replace the whole differential.

My use of cheap moly automotive grease may have resulted in this. I'll definitely pick up the Honda Moly 60 (or M77 now?) for the future.

Thoughts and comments are greatly appreciated.

 

[fastbysuzuki]

The link says it is part 64680-45113 which I belive is the latest part number but in the specs it says it is a 64680-45112 which is the yellow one.
If it is the 64680-45113 that seems very cheap ( perhaps too cheap)

 

[Gorminrider]

That's the pumpkin's drive gear, correct? nasty. What does the "gold" wheel gear look like? the same?

I'd want both gears "good", just like a chain+sprockets. But I wouldn't call it a bike killer if you shift gears gently with just a one newish gear..ie: don't lash it! and don't go far from home.

Thing is, an unworn wheelhub gear is not going to make complete contact anymore. An unworn gear inserted into THAT shown is going to be taking the load on its tips. And likely soon have more "lash" (slack between gears and thereby gear-shifts)

Whatever the brochure says, I've come to the general conclusion that shaft drives with any slop like to be driven like old trucks -gently on the gear change- unless, I suppose, you are onto the lash with shims and what-all, mating the gears to the nth optimal degree....

 

[Burque73]

A better pic for reference shows about 1/3 of the tooth worn away.


Fast,
I thought that price was odd as everyone else has it listed for almost twice that.

Gormin,
In those pics the one of the pumpkin, that has the black oil seal next to the spline has some wear. The gold or yellow joint on the wheel, that has the SKF bearing in the pic is showing the most wear. I understand the correlation between new sprockets and chains and agree that would be ideal here as well. Just trying to pick the brains of those who may have run into this. Understanding we all have different riding styles and some are harder on the drive train than others, myself being the latter, may have things last a bit longer (like tires) if that means anything.

 

[Grimly]

It's usable, but plan to replace it soon. The pumpkin side I mean, the wheel side is definitely shot.
Stock up on drive bits, because they'll all eventually wear out and get in shorter supply, and prices will shoot up.

 

[Burque73]

Cool, thanks Grimly.

I found an ebay seller right up the road from here in Denver, CO. This wheel was $35 shipped and appears to have an older black joint on it. It may just be dirty, but the JIS type heads on the bolts hopefully indicate it's at least older than my '83. Not sure how many miles are on it though.

They have a website and may be a good resource in the future.

http://www.tdmotorcycle.com/

He has a ton of complete final drive units for pretty cheap too so I'll look at grabbing one of those here shortly.

 

[Grimly]

My oldest black hub has at least 140K on it and it's like new, so nothing to worry about.
Well, unless the PO of that one there never greased it, of course.

Hey, I recognise that ebay seller - odlidle. I've dealt with him before, but his shipping costs were a bit savage. No problem now that I have a relay service in NJ.

 

[salty_monk]

I believe the driven side was used on a lot of suzuki wheels including some of the modern cruisers so parts are pretty common.... Others will confirm I'm sure.

I think the weak ones are only 82/83 after or before you're fine

https://www.ebay.com/itm/suzuki-198...e=STRK:MEBIDX:IT&_trksid=p2060353.m1438.l2649

https://www.ebay.com/itm/2003-Suzuk...e=STRK:MEBIDX:IT&_trksid=p2060353.m1438.l2649

https://www.ebay.com/itm/01-09-SUZU...e=STRK:MEBIDX:IT&_trksid=p2060353.m1438.l2649

 

[Redman]

Your pic of your current hub doesn’t look like an original 82 gold type... but that is of little concern, is worn, needs to be replaced.
Well, maybe is significance to that being the newer style, with lack of adaquate lube maybe that allows the wear on final drive.

If you you end up with extra wheels that can’t sell, can get something like $9 bucks each at metal scrapper.
i had extra, from buying for the hubs..... didn’t understand how someone could sell me me a wheel shipped for $30 when for me to ship a wheel was pretty much 30 bucks .

 

[Burque73]

I believe the driven side was used on a lot of suzuki wheels including some of the modern cruisers so parts are pretty common.... Others will confirm I'm sure.

I think the weak ones are only 82/83 after or before you're fine

https://www.ebay.com/itm/suzuki-198...e=STRK:MEBIDX:IT&_trksid=p2060353.m1438.l2649

https://www.ebay.com/itm/2003-Suzuk...e=STRK:MEBIDX:IT&_trksid=p2060353.m1438.l2649

https://www.ebay.com/itm/01-09-SUZU...e=STRK:MEBIDX:IT&_trksid=p2060353.m1438.l2649

Thank you for the links there. I knew that part was used on a bunch of bikes, but my search was not nearly as thorough. When I used the alphasports website's cross reference tool the GS, oddly enough, didnt even show up as one of the models that uaed this joint.

 

[Burque73]

Right? I don't understand that one either, Dave. (Thought I hit the quote button) The wheel will probably get scrapped making the part cost about $25. Still way better than a new one assuming it checks out to be ok.

FYI, I saw a thread of yours from 2006 ish on this same repair, but the pics were long gone.

 

[Redman]

Roger,
2006? Eh?
would be just after getting the GK , and finding hub partly worn.

2005 would be when witnessed another ralley goers hub fail (but I didn’t know what that was).
Later checked my 850, to find it half worn.


Here is a look at those two

here is a worn "gold one" compared to a current new one.

 

[Redman]

Something else: I haven’t heard of the final drive output spline wearing, but I didn’t say anything because I don’t have that much experience other than my own 850 and then 1100...
.

.<<<delete >>

Your wear pattern doesnt look like the common problem.

anybody else notice that?? Any ideas??

 

[Burque73]

It still had bits of grease in there and my parts cleaning brush made little scratches in the grease when I took that pic. After removing it and cleaning it up, it looked just like yours.

 

[Redman]

Okay, so you have gotten the hub out of the wheel, and the wear looks like others.

 

[Burque73]

Okay, so you have gotten the hub out of the wheel, and the wear looks like others.

Yep, here it is. I posted a tiny thumbnail pic earlier. Not quite as worn as the one you just posted, but still on it's way out.

 

[Burque73]

I received the salvage wheel with a good spline joint on it, a nice black one.

The Honda Moly 60 stuff is no longer available. Has anyone used the new replacement formula?

 

[Redman]

....

The Honda Moly 60 stuff is no longer available. Has anyone used the new replacement formula?

...

Yep, That is what Honda dealers carry now. Aint cheap.
Didnt seem all that sticky, didnt seem all that thick. But is the high moly content.

 

[Grimly]

I've been using Castrol moly grease for years, with no complaints. It's got fewer bits of moly goodness, but works fine and is much more easily found.
Heck, in a pinch I've used normal axle grease, as the tyre was changed every month at times.

 

[Burque73]

This is the stuff I've been using for the last 20k miles. Either it didn't have a high enough molybdenum content to protect the spline or it was just the softer gold one that did it in.