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Don't ask why I know . . .
D
doctorgonzo
Guest
Well....
This whole adventure started because when putting my new 4 into 1 on I discovered the head on my bike had a sheared bolt, 4 holes already heli-coiled, and a hole that was just drilled out. In trying to fix that mess I broke a tap off in one, and an extractor in another, and the drilled out one, after installing heli-coil and tapping now leaks oil at an alarming rate when the bike is running. What a mess, and you can bet the new head I am paying dearly for will be better than the day it rolled off the line before it goes on.
T
terry
Guest
Well it's a lesson we've (we who have pulled these bikes apart over the last 30 years, that is) learned the hard way, that exhaust bolts break real easy.
I'm currently building one bike out of two, I bought a "bargain" 1980 GS1000E with some Yoshimura gear, (turned out to be a rusted out Yosh pipe that literally fell apart when I grabbed it by hand and a big bore kit) it's been sitting under a tarp for 5 years, I dropped the old oil and filter and cleaned the carbs and it started and ran on all four right away, so I know the engine is good, at least.
The frame and forks (and most other cosmetic parts) were another story, but I've got a good 1980 GS1000E frame here and some GS1000G forks, and thanks to Tom MLC I've got some really nice blinkers and an ignition switch. Anyway, I digress.
I needed to remove the remains of the (paper thin) Yosh pipe, so as the engine would run, I fired it up and when it was hot I switched it off and then sprayed a home made penetrant (a mixture of diesel fuel and stale gasoline, with a dash of acetone) liberally on the rusty bolts, (this bike has spent it's life in Melbourne's bayside suburb of Frankston so every part of the bike was salt water effected, to some degree) let it cool down, then repeated the process all day, then next morning I started the bike, let it warm up, switched it off, then (with insulated gloves on) I unscrewed every bolt, with no breakage!
My advice to anyone, is get the bolts hot and they will (almost always) come out. Oh, and no-one answered your question about cam chains, my advice again is to ditch your OEM chain and buy one of Z1 Enterprises Tsubaki flat link race chains, they're probably twice as strong as OEM. I know our bikes aren't chain busters like my other passion, old Honda CB750's, but even so, you'll never bust a Tsubaki. Cheers, Terry.
I'm currently building one bike out of two, I bought a "bargain" 1980 GS1000E with some Yoshimura gear, (turned out to be a rusted out Yosh pipe that literally fell apart when I grabbed it by hand and a big bore kit) it's been sitting under a tarp for 5 years, I dropped the old oil and filter and cleaned the carbs and it started and ran on all four right away, so I know the engine is good, at least.
The frame and forks (and most other cosmetic parts) were another story, but I've got a good 1980 GS1000E frame here and some GS1000G forks, and thanks to Tom MLC I've got some really nice blinkers and an ignition switch. Anyway, I digress.
I needed to remove the remains of the (paper thin) Yosh pipe, so as the engine would run, I fired it up and when it was hot I switched it off and then sprayed a home made penetrant (a mixture of diesel fuel and stale gasoline, with a dash of acetone) liberally on the rusty bolts, (this bike has spent it's life in Melbourne's bayside suburb of Frankston so every part of the bike was salt water effected, to some degree) let it cool down, then repeated the process all day, then next morning I started the bike, let it warm up, switched it off, then (with insulated gloves on) I unscrewed every bolt, with no breakage!
My advice to anyone, is get the bolts hot and they will (almost always) come out. Oh, and no-one answered your question about cam chains, my advice again is to ditch your OEM chain and buy one of Z1 Enterprises Tsubaki flat link race chains, they're probably twice as strong as OEM. I know our bikes aren't chain busters like my other passion, old Honda CB750's, but even so, you'll never bust a Tsubaki. Cheers, Terry.
D
doctorgonzo
Guest
Thanks Terry, for the input. I'll go for the Z1 chain I think. I had noticed when I bought the bike that two exhaust bolts were missing, but the nightmare landscape I found was way beyond what I expected.
G
gearhead13
Guest
I just have to ask why Suzuki didnt put studs in for the exhaust? strange?. I think when I get my new pipe I really really hope i dont have any big problems with the bolts. Maybe I will look into putting studs in when the new header goes on. Just have to find high grade studs the right size.
T
terry
Guest
Buy some 1975-1978 Honda CB750 studs mate, they go straight in. I'm still using the bolts, but I use stainless steel cap heads with anti-size compound (copper grease) on the threads and I've not broken one in years. Cheers, Terry.
S
Suzuki mad
Guest
Modern Hon**'s use the stud method for the exhausts so if the nut don't come off the stud comes out of the head all OK.
Did this mod with my first GS1000E in 1982 after stripping the thread putting the exhausts back on. Used a Morris Marina exhaust stud, a brass nut and a washer. Never had a problem again.
Most cars use the same system and the thread is correct for a GS. If you can find the copper flanged nuts that go with them thats great.
As for the cam chain, I'd leave the original in there if its within spec.
Suzuki mad.
Did this mod with my first GS1000E in 1982 after stripping the thread putting the exhausts back on. Used a Morris Marina exhaust stud, a brass nut and a washer. Never had a problem again.
Most cars use the same system and the thread is correct for a GS. If you can find the copper flanged nuts that go with them thats great.
As for the cam chain, I'd leave the original in there if its within spec.
Suzuki mad.
T
terry
Guest
Geezus, Morris Marina? I haven't heard anyone utter that curse for 30 years, ha ha! BTW, how can you measure a cam chain chain (to determine if it's still "within spec") if you don't remove it from the engine mate? Cheers, Terry.
S
Suzuki mad
Guest
Suzuki workshop manual states:-
Cam Chain 20-pitch Length 157.80 (6.213)
Cam chain size DID219FTS
No of Links 120
Suzuki mad
Cam Chain 20-pitch Length 157.80 (6.213)
Cam chain size DID219FTS
No of Links 120
Suzuki mad
Last edited:
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gearhead13
Guest
I had a yamaha xs400 that I put a mac pipe on and it had studs, I dont remember exactly what happened, but I ended up having to drill and tap one of the holes larger and getting a bigger stud for it. Chev auto stud I think.
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doctorgonzo
Guest
Nobody ever answered. Do I use some kind of master link or pop out and replace a rivet? Been years since I messed with any kind of chain on any level. I did go through the service manual procedures pretty well ast night. Head still hasn't arrived. Shipped Monday.
D
doctorgonzo
Guest
Get a cam chain breaker from mikesXS.com or z1 maybe. Pin needs to be peened over is my understanding. Again, measure your old chain before changing; most likely it's fine. To measure is to know.
I will. Got a digital caliper and everything, cams, valves, chain, etc... will all get compared to spec. I am going to go ahead and replace the guides as well as the seals. I know it's probably ok, but service specs says don't reuse guides.
GS guides are pretty durable since the engine uses shim type valve train; far more durable than rocker type. Again, I'd check them before changing - get a hole gauge and micrometer to check. You can also check lateral clearance between the valve and guide with a dial indicator. If you change the guide the valve seats will have to be machined since the new guide will index slightly differently than the old one. Not worth it if the old guides are still serviceable.
Good luck.
Good luck.
D
doctorgonzo
Guest
ooooohhhhh.... didn't think about that. Alright... hole gauge. Some have said I should go ahead and pull the block because I'm likely to damage the gasket by knocking it around while replacing the head. What do you think? I'm going to compression test before I tear the current head off, and let that decide whether I take the pistons out and hone or not.
Yes, pull the cylinder. The base gasket often leaks after pulling the head because the clamp load was released.
Regarding the cylinders, again, measure if you want to be sure. If the cylinders measure within the service limit, a quick hone job with new rings will bring things up to spec and you can rest easy. The rings can be reused but my opinion is to change them since you are doing all that work in the first place.
Regarding the cylinders, again, measure if you want to be sure. If the cylinders measure within the service limit, a quick hone job with new rings will bring things up to spec and you can rest easy. The rings can be reused but my opinion is to change them since you are doing all that work in the first place.
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doctorgonzo
Guest
I'd saiy I'm 99.99999% sure the cylinders have never been honed before, so imagine within limit. A light honing would be replace with the stock size rings correct? I appreciate the help Ed. I'm forging new territory for myself here.
S
Suzuki mad
Guest
Cam chain what.....
Cam chain what.....
Suzuki cam chains are continous so you'd have to split the case to get the chain over the crank.
There's a guy who sells cam chains with soft links which would be the way to go. I used a dremmell and ground the pin down and pushed it out before (on a Hon** 900.)
I changed my GS(X)1100E's cam chain when I had it all apart. That had done 47,000 from new (on the clock??) and that was the same size as the new chain I was fitting. Probabley was a waste of money.....
Suzuki mad
Cam chain what.....
Suzuki cam chains are continous so you'd have to split the case to get the chain over the crank.
There's a guy who sells cam chains with soft links which would be the way to go. I used a dremmell and ground the pin down and pushed it out before (on a Hon** 900.)
I changed my GS(X)1100E's cam chain when I had it all apart. That had done 47,000 from new (on the clock??) and that was the same size as the new chain I was fitting. Probabley was a waste of money.....
Suzuki mad
D
doctorgonzo
Guest
I can't when removing the original head do some fancy footwork to stop it dropping all the way into the bottom end so I could attach a new chain to it and thread it through that way? Think I've decided to try and reuse the original unless out of spec (as the money on this rolls up).
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