Using GS1150 bars on GSXR triple tree

[posplayr]

Thanks again Jim, you really are a top bloke helping out like this.

My 21mm (one mm too small) socket is 27.65mm OD so I figure a 22mm socket will be 29mm. I can get 37mm Ali tube with 3mm or 5mm wall thickness. (4mm would be too tight for the socket allowing .5mm tollerance for misalignment) so the 37mm 0.125" may have to do (it's only going to be about 20mm (3/4") high so shouldn't be taking too much cantilever loading (tension on one side) and as you say the weld depth could be made fairly healthy (as much as 6mm).

I can also get 38.1mm OD with 4.8mm wall (= 28.5mm ID). If I filed the faces of the nut back about .5mm I could then use my 21mm (27.7mmOD) socket. I would also need to take a rats tail file to the riser bases (checked them at 36.8mm).

If you really think 3mm wall is too thin (try bending a dime) I will go with the 38.1mm 4.8mm wall, but would much prefer to run the easier path with the 37mm tube.

http://www.ullrich-aluminium.co.nz/extruded_round_tube2.php

Personally I would forego the socket and figure a different way to get the adjuster threaded in if it means reducing the wall thinkness that much.
Even if the welder has no problem welding a 3mm thik wall tubing to thick peice of metal, how much force you think it is going to take to bend a 3mm think tubing if you have to lift up your bike with the handle bars? Jerk the bike up and you now have a bent fork if you dont break off that tab with the bolt holding the clip on to the triple.

Your analogy of bending a dime is not relevant. Different material and doesn't consider the lever arm the clip-on has against the thin tubing.
Do you think people make aluminum fork extensions out of 3mm tubing??

I would not go less than the 5mm ,in fact I would pick the largest size I could get over the adjuster nut with shaving the corners down a bit. The weight means nothing and the strength goes up geometrically with thickness.

If you just take a screwdriver and twist open the clamp on it should easily open up for as much a 38-40mm. Worst case you redill the hole if a bolt wont go through.

A thick weld and a thin wall tubing is going to be very weak, a think aluminum weld is going to be weak. You can't win with thin stuff.

 

[Colin Green]

OK. 3mm wall no good :-k .... How about the 37mm with 5mm wall? At least then I don't have to shag around filing the clip on (they aren't a split clamp type. They simply slide over the top of the fork). I promise I won't pull up on the bars. ray:

A blank with a Half inch square hole centerd in it could be welded into the top of the tube to allow access to the preload adjustment and to use for undoing the cap.

 

[posplayr]

OK. 3mm wall no good :-k .... How about the 37mm with 5mm wall? At least then I don't have to shag around filing the clip on (they aren't a split clamp type. They simply slide over the top of the fork). I promise I won't pull up on the bars. ray:

A blank with a Half inch square hole centerd in it could be welded into the top of the tube to allow access to the preload adjustment and to use for undoing the cap.

If it is not a cinch clamp, you need to do the best you can to get that tight and then make the thickness a thick as possible.

Now I'm back to thinking about welding the clip-on to the triple top .

 

[Colin Green]

If it is not a cinch clamp, you need to do the best you can to get that tight and then make the thickness a thick as possible.

Now I'm back I'm thinking about welding the clip-on to the triple top .

Will have another think about that option. It is starting to appeal more. Only problem is that the triple has a split/cinch clamp at the ends which would preclude an all around weld. I'm guessing it would be limited to all down one side and only 1/2 to 3/4 of the other side. I guess that would still be stronger than the extension huh?.

Given that the instrument mounts and lock stops also have to be sorted out. I'm thinking it's a shame that the hole centres in the two triples aren't the same as I reckon if they were drilled out to 41mm on the 1150 triple, the thinnest section of wall around the hole would only be about .6mm thinner than that of the GSXR clamps. They are pretty much the same depth where they clamp onto the forks. That of course then leads to problems sorting out longer axle and axle and rotor spacers and neither front guard would be likely to fit.:-k

 

[posplayr]

Will have another think about that option. It is starting to appeal more. Only problem is that the triple has a split/cinch clamp at the ends which would preclude an all around weld. I'm guessing it would be limited to all down one side and only 1/2 to 3/4 of the other side. I guess that would still be stronger than the extension huh?.

Given that the instrument mounts and lock stops also have to be sorted out. I'm thinking it's a shame that the hole centres in the two triples aren't the same as I reckon if they were drilled out to 41mm on the 1150 triple, the thinnest section of wall around the hole would only be about .6mm thinner than that of the GSXR clamps. They are pretty much the same depth where they clamp onto the forks. That of course then leads to problems sorting out longer axle and axle and rotor spacers and neither front guard would be likely to fit.:-k

If the stock clip-on is just a slip fit then as long as you duplicate the fit there should be no worries.

You might need to chuck up the extension in a drill press or lathe to sand it down for a fine fit depending on how it all works out.

 

[Colin Green]

Thinking further about the loads imposed on the extension which is to be welded on to the fork cap got me wondering about whether the threaded connection itself would be up to transferring the loads from the bars to the forks. It wasn't designed for those sorts of loads (hadn't really considered it before). I don't think it is up to it.

Looks like directly welding the 1150 clip-ons to the GSXR top triple is going to be easier and safer.

I shall push ahead and cut off the front section of the 1150 triple with the instrument and ignition mounts ready for grafting onto the GSXR triple. I have an an encouraging reply to my Gixer inquiry for rotors so I might splash out on those other 1150 clip ons with controls that you showed me on ebay, as the extra height is definitely what I'm after and they will still have the original look. When I get them I can get them and some lock stops all welded together, paint them and sort the best of the controls (along with some new bearings) and that will be the first segment of Baz's mods sorted.

Many thanks Jim and Happy New year.

OMG! Just did my budget sums for the wheel (front & back) and front fork upgrade and I'm looking at close to.... Assisted suicide if the wife finds out

 

[posplayr]

Thinking further about the loads imposed on the extension which is to be welded on to the fork cap got me wondering about whether the threaded connection itself would be up to transferring the loads from the bars to the forks. It wasn't designed for those sorts of loads (hadn't really considered it before). I don't think it is up to it.

Looks like directly welding the 1150 clip-ons to the GSXR top triple is going to be easier and safer.

I shall push ahead and cut off the front section of the 1150 triple with the instrument and ignition mounts ready for grafting onto the GSXR triple. I have an an encouraging reply to my Gixer inquiry for rotors so I might splash out on those other 1150 clip ons with controls that you showed me on ebay, as the extra height is definitely what I'm after and they will still have the original look. When I get them I can get them and some lock stops all welded together, paint them and sort the best of the controls (along with some new bearings) and that will be the first segment of Baz's mods sorted.

Many thanks Jim and Happy New year.

OMG! Just did my budget sums for the wheel (front & back) and front fork upgrade and I'm looking at close to.... Assisted suicide if the wife finds out

The top adjuster is a fine thread with a very close fit and the top triple will be clamped down around the outside(will not wobble). It would take a whole lot of force to bend the top of the fork stanchion especially if you are bolting the clip-on to the top triple. As mentioned my reservation would be with getting the aluminum extension that is welded on strong enough.

The primary down side of the welding to the triple directly is lack or adjustability so get that correct first before welding it down.

Glad things are looking better for the New Year, Happy 1st.

 

[Colin Green]

My first ever mod

My first ever mod

A numberof firsts for me today.

Pictures say it all

 

[Colin Green]

Ready to be dropped of to someone who can weld

 

[posplayr]

Colin,
Looks like you made some good progress. Here a few of points. You might have already thought of it but if not.......

1.) make sure that the clock and lock portion of the 1150 triple is at the right height. Mine was off and I had to persuade the key lock stop up to catch.

2.) make sure you measure the max steering angle (with gsxr forks and gas tank installed) as it is probably smaller than the 1150. I set mine to the +/-40 degrees of the 1100ED, but that was too much and the forks would touch the tank. Rob said he would make the stops a little short and then trim the stops to get to the right angle.

3.) As you probably figured, my welder first welded the two sides of the clock/lock portion to establish the spacing and then cut off that center portion. He completed the welding then.

4.) You should also pull out the rubber bushings for the clocks.

5.) On the steering stops, I had a couple of short logs welded all around except at the end where the stop mets the frame. To add additional strength the welder drilled from the bottom and welded from underneath as well.

 

[Colin Green]

Colin,
Looks like you made some good progress. Here a few of points. You might have already thought of it but if not.......

1.) make sure that the clock and lock portion of the 1150 triple is at the right height. Mine was off and I had to persuade the key lock stop up to catch.

2.) make sure you measure the max steering angle (with gsxr forks and gas tank installed) as it is probably smaller than the 1150. I set mine to the +/-40 degrees of the 1100ED, but that was too much and the forks would touch the tank. Rob said he would make the stops a little short and then trim the stops to get to the right angle.

3.) As you probably figured, my welder first welded the two sides of the clock/lock portion to establish the spacing and then cut off that center portion. He completed the welding then.

4.) You should also pull out the rubber bushings for the clocks.

5.) On the steering stops, I had a couple of short logs welded all around except at the end where the stop mets the frame. To add additional strength the welder drilled from the bottom and welded from underneath as well.

Thanks, hadn't thought of 3 and 5 at all.

1. I have got the height set the same relative to the top of the clamp. I don't have a Key lock stop to worry about

2. I have a complete EF sitting in the garage so was able to determine that the existing forks clear the tank by about 10mm. The clearance between the bars and tank is just enough to fit your fingers in but as I'm going to run with the longer riser clip-ons, I figured I could close the gap down to a couple of mm between the forks and tank. Allowing for the slightly narrower fork centers and taking my set up cue from the position of the EF stops relative to the inside edge of the spindle and fork hole on the EF bottom triple (which happened to line up nicely by straight edge with the near corner of the stops). I was then able to use the distance (31mm) from the edge of the spindle to the stops along the line of the straight edge (which I set about 6 - 7mm in from the edge of the fork). Hopefully that will result in about 3- 4mm of clearance from the tank which I can then adjust by grinding a little off the stops. Fingers crossed. It would be nice to improve on the very limited steering lock on the EF.

3. I hadn't picked up on that little gem. I left it in place to avoid working with too many little pieces. As a result, the mounting points are actually 6 or 7mm further forward of the fork centers relative to the EF triple set up which works with the plastic yoke cover. I attempted to compenstae by back cutting the section with the mounting points so that it will hopefully angle the top of the lock with the hole in the yoke cover (in case I decide to use it.). The back cut angle can be seen in the 4th photo. Yes, now that I know, I will cut the center out as it will look nicer.

4. Will do. I had thought of that one (along with the following fight to squeeze them back in).

5. The old hole through the bottom trick eh! Good idea thanks.

 

[posplayr]

Colin,

A couple question s and more things occurred to me.

Jim

Thanks, hadn't thought of 3 and 5 at all.

1. I have got the height set the same relative to the top of the clamp. I don't have a Key lock stop to worry about

why don't you have an ignition key steering lock?

2. I have a complete EF sitting in the garage so was able to determine that the existing forks clear the tank by about 10mm. The clearance between the bars and tank is just enough to fit your fingers in but as I'm going to run with the longer riser clip-ons, I figured I could close the gap down to a couple of mm between the forks and tank. Allowing for the slightly narrower fork centers and taking my set up cue from the position of the EF stops relative to the inside edge of the spindle and fork hole on the EF bottom triple (which happened to line up nicely by straight edge with the near corner of the stops). I was then able to use the distance (31mm) from the edge of the spindle to the stops along the line of the straight edge (which I set about 6 - 7mm in from the edge of the fork). Hopefully that will result in about 3- 4mm of clearance from the tank which I can then adjust by grinding a little off the stops. Fingers crossed. It would be nice to improve on the very limited steering lock on the EF.

Just so you have fork stanchion to gas tank clearance at the stop locks.

3. I hadn't picked up on that little gem. I left it in place to avoid working with too many little pieces. As a result, the mounting points are actually 6 or 7mm further forward of the fork centers relative to the EF triple set up which works with the plastic yoke cover. I attempted to compenstae by back cutting the section with the mounting points so that it will hopefully angle the top of the lock with the hole in the yoke cover (in case I decide to use it.). The back cut angle can be seen in the 4th photo. Yes, now that I know, I will cut the center out as it will look nicer.

Decide to use the cover or the ignition lock stop?


4. Will do. I had thought of that one (along with the following fight to squeeze them back in).

5. The old hole through the bottom trick eh! Good idea thanks.

6. It would be stronger to weld from underneath as well as from the top (both sides) of the clock/lock section so you will need to clean that paint off as well.

7. I'm not sure if you had planned on welding the clipon's to the bars but if you are going to bolt them on then you are likely to not have enough meat in the triple clamp to tap a hole and it is not flat underneath for a backing nut and washer. My welder added a chunk of aluminum (welded in place) to give extra thickness and a flat spot . This was for a set of bolt on risers for the 91 GSXR triple but same idea.

With a close fit between the clipon and the top of the triple(and a strong bold ), that would make welding of the clipon not nessesary.

8.) How did you make that nice cut across the triple? It looks like you started with a hacksaw, but then did a plunge cut. Circular blade?

 

[Colin Green]

Colin,

A couple question s and more things occurred to me.

Jim

6. It would be stronger to weld from underneath as well as from the top (both sides) of the clock/lock section so you will need to clean that paint off as well.

7. I'm not sure if you had planned on welding the clipon's to the bars but if you are going to bolt them on then you are likely to not have enough meat in the triple clamp to tap a hole and it is not flat underneath for a backing nut and washer. My welder added a chunk of aluminum (welded in place) to give extra thickness and a flat spot . This was for a set of bolt on risers for the 91 GSXR triple but same idea.

With a close fit between the clipon and the top of the triple(and a strong bold ), that would make welding of the clipon not nessesary.

8.) How did you make that nice cut across the triple? It looks like you started with a hacksaw, but then did a plunge cut. Circular blade?

Hi and many thanks again Jim (who also just helped me score some cheap rotors)

1. I don't know. It seems to be ignition only. No lock pin.

2. Yes that is the aim

3. Yes I was meaning the plastic yoke cover. (this set up may yet be re-used on my other EF as a naked set up as opposed to Baz's Moto Guzzi LeMans Mk4 fairing.

6. Already removed paint along the bottom edge for welding. Cheers.

7. Yes I had seen that one coming and was going to ask the person who will be doing the weld to look into that. Though I had thought about welding a nut there or building it up with weld.

8. I used a straight edge to mark it then a thin blade on a 4" angle grinder doing a progressive back and forward plunge cut. Although I have done little metal work I am used to doing similar cutting in timber so have a little bit of tool handling skill and confidence. I actually left too much meat on with the initial cut and had to cut another 4mm off then finished it on my belt sander to flatten it out nicer.

 

[posplayr]

Colin,
Well I went a little overboard also having the air collars bored so they would slide over the 41mm forks .

This might be behind your fairing so not visible that it is missing.
Jim

 

[Colin Green]

Colin,
Well I went a little overboard also having the air collars bored so they would slide over the 41mm forks .

This might be behind your fairing so not visible that it is missing.
Jim

No air collars either. Oil and spring only