When your Petcock is too big for its britches

[jharvey]

Greetings all, and happy spring,

Over the winter, I had to get the petcock replaced on my 1980 GS400ET. (Or GS450ET in the US or GSX400ET in the UK) Naturally, the original part is long since out of production, and though I had still been able to get an OEM replacement a couple of times in the past, it wasn't possible this time around, so the mechanic got a "universal" petcock to do the job.




The original (Suzuki part# 44300 44172) can be found here…

https://www.cmsnl.com/en-ca/suzuki-gs450et-1980-t-usa-e03_model16015/partslist/BLCK0030.html
https://images.cmsnl.com/img/products/cock-assyfuel_big4430044172-01_4fb8.jpg



And the replacement looks something like this…











Unfortunately, as I discovered now that I'm returning to riding in the warm weather, the replacement petcock is too wide as you face it – resulting in the PRI 'wing' of the front face trying to gouge a hole in the front of my side cover (pressing against it with enough force that the side cover's mounting peg broke).


I managed to find a replacement side cover in the Netherlands, and in the interim have had to hacksaw a hole in the front-facing part of the ‘repaired’ side cover, but I’d like to be able to avoid having to do that to the replacement when it arrives.

Does anyone (especially if they own this particular bike model) have any suggestions for a specific vacuum petcock that is either an aftermarket clone of the original, or at least one ‘narrow’ enough to fit this bike without colliding with the sidecover?


Thanks,​

 

[rphillips]

I had a similar problem when installing a eng with CV carbs on a GS1000S frame designed for VM carbs., pet cock at slightly different location... I fabricated a piece of metal to raise the rear of the tank (and petcock) appx. 1 in...Worked perfect and had to be a GS1000 expert to ever notice the difference. May not work at all for you, but just say'in.

 

[jharvey]

I had a similar problem when installing a eng with CV carbs on a GS1000S frame designed for VM carbs., pet cock at slightly different location... I fabricated a piece of metal to raise the rear of the tank (and petcock) appx. 1 in...Worked perfect and had to be a GS1000 expert to ever notice the difference. May not work at all for you, but just say'in.

Thanks for the suggestion. I'll keep it in my back pocket, but given the way that the seat's physical lines and trim stripes flow into the tank...



I'd rather keep that as is if possible. But it's an option I hadn't considered, so thanks again.

 

[rphillips]

OOhhh, not good with those stripes, the old GS1000's were nothing like yours... Good luck. and

 

[dgates1]

Found this.. under previous part number. Might be worth a call to see if they actually have it in stock.

https://www.motosport.com/oem-parts/part-number/44300-41371

 

[Big T]

Being a 1980 model, your bike would have come with the dreaded lever less petcock
It is much slimmer that what you have a installed now
Likely a Pingel is your best hope

 

[rphillips]

Looking at parts fiche, it seems the "80" GS450 was spared the dreaded leverless valve.

 

[jharvey]

Found this.. under previous part number. Might be worth a call to see if they actually have it in stock.

https://www.motosport.com/oem-parts/part-number/44300-41371

Amazing - in countless searches over the last weeks/months, including sites around the world, I hadn't come across a site claiming to have one in stock. I've fired off an email to confirm - and to see if they also carry repair kits - I expect that even if it's a 'new' part, there's a good chance it was manufactured a couple of decades ago, so I should be prepared for 'aged' rubber.

Thanks!

 

[jharvey]

"...dreaded leverless valve"?

I know that on the 2 occasions in 45 years I had to switch to Reserve, the lever was stiff as a board - but so is the arm on current one. (Which, apart from conflicting with the side cover, results in fuel starvation on non-stop-and-go riding unless it's on Prime. Another reason it needs to be replaced.)

What made this one ... dreaded?



Thanks

 

[rphillips]

Please don't leave us wondering, let us know what they tell ya.

 

[jharvey]

Please don't leave us wondering, let us know what they tell ya.

Absolutely - though I doubt I'll hear back this weekend. And after having a look on the schematics, well, as the succession number for my original, it may be a replacement in the sense that it'll fit the holes and flow fuel, but this...
https://www.suzukipartshouse.com/oemparts/a/suz/508b20dcf870023530724113/fuel-cock
sure doens't look much like this...
https://www.cmsnl.com/en-ca/suzuki-gs450et-1980-t-usa-e03_model16015/cock-assembly-fuel_4430044170/


Time will tell,

 

[jharvey]

Heard back from Motosport with the attached picture (full points to them for a quick and helpful reply).

I expect it would attach to the tank fine, but definitely a different animal - and not a vacuum petcock.




So the closest match to date is a unit from a European supplier which looks identical to my original, except that the fuel and vacuum attachment points are on the right rather than left side of the the petcock. The question there is whether the hoses will then 'run up against' the left side cover, so I guess I'll have to do some eyeballing and guesstimation.

 

[rphillips]

Not sure which ones, but some of the Suzuki vacuum pet cocks had the vacuum nipple attached to the back plate of the petcock. Those back plates are square, so that vacuum nipple could be positioned right, left, up, or down.

 

[jharvey]

Not sure which ones, but some of the Suzuki vacuum pet cocks had the vacuum nipple attached to the back plate of the petcock. Those back plates are square, so that vacuum nipple could be positioned right, left, up, or down.

That appears to be the case with the current 'best candidate'...



If only I could do the same with the fuel port. (Of course, even with the original part's left side location, the outlet had an immediate right angle to the rear of the petcock (towards the engine) before you connected the fuel line (see original post) so I guess in this case, another factor will be how 'acutely' the fuel hose can be directed to the rear of the petcock and towards the carbs without affecting flow.)

 

[jharvey]

Am I missing something really obvious here?


I haven't been able to find a left-side exit petcock to date to match my bike - even an email exchange with TourMax in Japan came up empty,

But when I look at all the petcocks that dealers list as compatible for my bike -complete with the right-side exit that bangs up against the bodywork- I see that there's a symmetry to the design that has similar, let's say, 'contouring' on both sides of the petcock - a space on the left that matches the space on the right that the fuel pipe is coming out of. Here's as clear an image as I can find to show what I'm talking about.


Does anyone knnow - could it be possible that the buyer can actually SWITCH the sides - perhaps the left side in this image has a recessed 'plug' you can unscrew on the left and switch over to the right as you move the fuel pipe to the left? Could it be that simple?

I expect not - probably they've just shaped that way so it would be easier to make a left side exit during the manufacturing process if required, but if anyone knows different from their own experience, I'd love to hear it.

Thanks again.

 

[Grimly]

Just keep looking, because there are some petcock bodies on the third party market that utilise a brass blanking screw on the un-used side, and they definitely can be used according to which side you want the outlet to be on.
If yours is the 50mm hole spacing, you might be out of luck... so...
The alternative is to simply get one with the outlet you want and make a carrier plate that will allow you to use a 44mm pitch petcock that suits your needs - the carrier plate is of 3/8" steel and bolts to the tank, the new petcock uses one of the screw holes for a longer screw that goes through both, while the other screw goes into a tapped hole in the steel block.
You would, of course, have to drill and file a pass-through slot for the pickup pipes.

 

[jdub6092]

That appears to be the case with the current 'best candidate'...



If only I could do the same with the fuel port. (Of course, even with the original part's left side location, the outlet had an immediate right angle to the rear of the petcock (towards the engine) before you connected the fuel line (see original post) so I guess in this case, another factor will be how 'acutely' the fuel hose can be directed to the rear of the petcock and towards the carbs without affecting flow.)

Looks like you may have had the same dilemna that I had. Original taps on the left, fuel tap 90 degree bend and could not find the correctly oriented replacement.
Ended up getting one that looks exactly like the one in the above pic. Switched the vacuum cover to the left, but had to double the length of flexible fuel hose and loop it around to avoid kinks.

 

[jharvey]

The final chapter – for now?

So, the search for a petcock with a left side output was unsuccessful. Even companies that market dozens of the things, like Tour Max in Japan, didn't have a direct replacement or anything else that could substitute. Oddly enough, there were plenty with left side exits in the non-vacuum category, or the single 3/8 thread types that fit into bikes like Harley's, but nothing with the 44 mm mounts (and the right side exit on the 'best candidate' match above would still bang up against the sidecover).

But, even though the petcock was replaced all the way back in January (of course with Canadian winters, I wasn't doing much riding until a month or two ago), the mechanic never threw out the original (I expect, as I would have, he keeps used parts around in case he can make some use of some of their components later). So, after he found it, and with me having given up on the search for a proper replacement, he Frankenstein-ed a repair with parts from other petcock repair kits (naturally, there are no repair kits for this old part either).

After a few hours riding, it seems to be working, but he wouldn't guarantee that the diaphragm wouldn't fail at some point - given the petcock's now non-standard construction. He expected the tell-tale symptom would be gas leaking into the crankcase and my inability to start the bike after it was parked for a day or more. I asked, "so if it was going to fail, would I expect to be experiencing this tomorrow morning or three months from now?” and he shrugged his shoulders and said, "yes."

Nevertheless, keeping a good thought, it may only 'fail' after a long and productive life, and given that the bike’s 45 years old already, some other thing might prove non-repairable long before the petcock is a factor again. Fingers crossed. If not, perhaps I'll explore the 3/8 to 44mm adapter plates (though I wonder if dropping the petcock down by the thickness of the adapter might not have it conflicting with the airbox - I'll cross that bridge if I have to come to it).

Anyway, assuming that good thought pans out, that appears to be the end of this particular saga. Thanks again to all those who gave their input.​