Yoshimura GSX1135R (EFE) Project

[Mindless]

There are apparently some Hindle 1st Gen 4:2:1's floating around in Europe. A dealler bought up the rest of the CLOSEOUT stock (they were $299 for header mid).

Yeah, those are the ones I've been looking at but they cost ?299.

And a funny thing regarding the lock-up I bought: the spacer wasn't for the 1100/1150. It was for the GS1000... :-&

Fortunately, I got a 1?" thick disc of aluminium out in the garage and some friends that are talented with CNC machines. Bit of a hassle but billet beats castings any day.

 

[posplayr]

Yeah, those are the ones I've been looking at but they cost ?299.

And a funny thing regarding the lock-up I bought: the spacer wasn't for the 1100/1150. It was for the GS1000... :-&

Fortunately, I got a 1?" thick disc of aluminium out in the garage and some friends that are talented with CNC machines. Bit of a hassle but billet beats castings any day.

Dont have them here but I have pictures of the Hindle mounted to my GS1100ED parts bike. No can just the mid but gives you and idea of fit if interested.

My Hindle pipe (with RS-3 oval can) is going to replace a 4:1 Muzzy on my GSXR1100G. The Hindle is extremely light by the way.

 

[Darkstang]

I have been following this thread and your build is awesome.

Concerning the horse power and parasitic loses. I do not believe that a straight percentage rule is linear. My stock 83 with just a 4 into 1 dynoed at 92 hp during bike week at Daytona.

I believe the drive train loss is more of finite amount of loss. Say it takes 15 hp to overcome the loss at factory hp levels, I cna't see it taking more power to overcome at higher hp levels? I have had this discussion many time when I was into racing and we had several vehicles dyno'd. Always wanted to dyno the motor and then the vehicle each time to get a true drivetrain loss scenario when only more hp was added and no drivetrain changes.


Do you have any pics of the bike in its current state? Did you leave the fairing off the front ?

 

[Mindless]

I have been following this thread and your build is awesome.

Concerning the horse power and parasitic loses. I do not believe that a straight percentage rule is linear. My stock 83 with just a 4 into 1 dynoed at 92 hp during bike week at Daytona.

I believe the drive train loss is more of finite amount of loss. Say it takes 15 hp to overcome the loss at factory hp levels, I cna't see it taking more power to overcome at higher hp levels? I have had this discussion many time when I was into racing and we had several vehicles dyno'd. Always wanted to dyno the motor and then the vehicle each time to get a true drivetrain loss scenario when only more hp was added and no drivetrain changes.


Do you have any pics of the bike in its current state? Did you leave the fairing off the front ?

Thanks!

And regarding the hosepower gains - I suppose you have a point. Regardless, I'm only gonna get more ponies out of it.

As for the current state of the bike:

 

[posplayr]

I have been following this thread and your build is awesome.

Concerning the horse power and parasitic loses. I do not believe that a straight percentage rule is linear. My stock 83 with just a 4 into 1 dynoed at 92 hp during bike week at Daytona.

I believe the drive train loss is more of finite amount of loss. Say it takes 15 hp to overcome the loss at factory hp levels, I cna't see it taking more power to overcome at higher hp levels? I have had this discussion many time when I was into racing and we had several vehicles dyno'd. Always wanted to dyno the motor and then the vehicle each time to get a true drivetrain loss scenario when only more hp was added and no drivetrain changes.


Do you have any pics of the bike in its current state? Did you leave the fairing off the front ?

Interesting point, put me aback for a moment because I had not considered the basis for a constant efficency approximation(if I did I forgot). I do remember having a discussion with a fellow at work as to how there could be as much as 15% loss in a chain system that should be much more efficient.

Rated horsepower apparently is measured at the transmission (of a motorcycle) so includes the transmission. The losses beyond that are chain drive and tires for purposes of comparing dyno results. I don't want to even start on this complex subject, however I will say that the frictional losses are more than likely associated with both speed and load. For a dyno run, we could assume that the speeds between two bikes of different hp are essentially the same, but the forces would be strongly related to engine torque.

So to the extent that the speeds of the dyno run remain the same, so to the frictional losses but there are going to be torque related forces hat would increase generally with a larger hp motor. For simplicity, I think to be safe I would stick with a fixed efficency model over a fixed hp loss. If you are interested you can down load the paper below ($34) and see what it says.

Chain performance is a complex subject , tires is another .....


Optimisation of the chain drive system on sports motorcycles
http://www.springerlink.com/content/bj274q1060h31xn3/

<H2>Abstract

This paper investigates the optimisation of the chain drive system on sports motorcycles. Recently there has been the development of a chain transmission efficiency model that is suitable for motorcycles. The new model is used to predict the efficiency of 600cc sports motorcycle at different speeds. The transmission efficiency is estimated to be between 96 and 99% for speeds less than 75 mile/h. Between 75 and 150 mile/h the transmission efficiency can be as low as 85% due to inertial tension. The transmission efficiency model presented in this paper enables optimisation of sprocket and chain sizes. In general, large sprockets are better at low speeds and smaller sprockets are better at high speeds. The optimum chain size is the chain with the smallest pitch that can meet the torque and power requirement. The sprocket centre distance also has a big effect on efficiency and it is important to use an effective installation procedure. In particular, it is important to set a chain up when the rear wheel axle, front crank and swing arm bearing are all in-line.

</H2>

 

[Guest]

Concerning the horse power and parasitic loses. I do not believe that a straight percentage rule is linear.

Hmm, I wondered about that too.:-k

 

[Mindless]

Wow, had to dig deep in the pages to find the thread. Can't believe I haven't done any updates since August 14th.

Been doing some tinkering this last week though. First of all I fitted the heavy-duty back plate to the clutch hub and welded it up. The rivets were a snug fit but eventually I managed to put it together.

Then I got the cylinderblock back from a guy in town who bores engines and stuff. Up from 74 to 77mm bore which means 1135 -> 1230cc. Turned out really sweet and my new Wiseco pistons fit like a glove.

Earlier this week I also got some wheels posted to me from Isle of Man. These are not for my bike but cool all the same. Anyone recognize the brand?

These will be refurbished and fitted to my dads Kawasaki Z1000 Mk.II.

Today I blasted the valve cover in preparation for some black wrinklepaint which should arrive tomorrow. Will be baking that in the oven then.

Also painted the cylinderblock, this time silver instead of black. With the black valve cover, I kinda wanted a different contrast on the engine. Looks pretty neat I think.

Made myself a new sprocket cover / guard as well. Might be subject to chance in the future but for now this will do. Just need to tack on the small round stabilizer for the shift rod and it's all finished.

Suppose that's all for now. Going to sort out the ring gaps for the pistons starting tomorrow. Tedious work...

 

[steve murdoch]

Stunning work as usual, Mindless.
How big is that rear Astralite? 5.5"? 6"? And did somebody win the lottery to afford that pair?

 

[Mindless]

Stunning work as usual, Mindless.
How big is that rear Astralite? 5.5"? 6"? And did somebody win the lottery to afford that pair?

Thanks.

The rear wheel is 5.5x17". As for winning the lottery... I wish since I'm broke now after buying them...

But seriously, they weren't that expensive taking in mind that they are the right size and that they are nice and straight (with the exception of the front wheel which will need straightening). Compared to a set of unusable 25 year old Dymag magnesium wheels, paying ?350 for these was cheap.

Granted, I got to make new wheel centers for them, get some bearings, fix up the rear brake disc, fit a cush drive for the sprocket, blast them and finally get them repainted. So in the end, these will probably have cost me double what I paid. But given how rare they are, I'm fine with that.

 

[Mindless]

Suppose this thread should be in the Performance-department now.

Checked the ring end gaps today and adjusted where needed, then I started to fiddle with the cylinder block. Easier said than done, but with some help from my old man and some gentle persuasion we managed to get #2 and #3 into their respective cylinders.

Almost starting to resemble an engine now.

Got my wrinklepaint today as well so I coated the valve cover a few times and threw it in the oven for 5-10 minutes.

Turned out really nice. Gonna give the cover for the ignition and the lids on the carbs the same treatment tomorrow I think.

Also noticed that I've gathered quite a few anodised parts on the bike now.

 

[Mindless]

Almost there now.

 

[Mindless]

Today was the big day.

No I didn't start the bike. Nothing of the sort in fact.

No.

Today was the day when finally, after 13 years of waiting, me and my old man decided that enough is enough. The garage has been used as a sort of storage for a large classic mahogany boat over these years. But frankly, with three bikes around and two of them full scale rebuilds, a room of 20 sq meters (of which half is occupied by a workbench, a compressor, and so on) just isn't enough.

So, we got up early this morning and ate breakfast then we went out in the garage and started cleaning.

After a while, we had pretty much cleared out everything, in, on and around the boat. The keen eyed will spot dads afro sticking up out of the boat.

Then we went and picked up a trailer from a guy my old man knows. Really nice of him to lend it on such short notice.

With the help of another oldschool bike fanatic we managed to get the boat far enough up on the trailer to pull it out.

The result is as follows.

Old man could hardly keep his mouth closed. "Wow, there sure is a lot of room now." was his reaction. Can't disagree with him.

So finally, we have a proper work area to fiddle with the bikes on. Will be spending the next couple of weeks getting everything nice and tidy. And meanwhile we do that, I hope I'll be able to hunt down a job so I get a steady income in order to finance the future of this project.

That's all for now I guess.



​

 

[spyug]

Yikes snow already I can barely wait

Nice boat. Can we have some more pics please? The garage looks really suitable for bike building and the project is looking great. You've done a great job my friend.

Waiting to hear of that bike running.

Thanks for the update.

Cheers,
Spyug

 

[Mindless]

Yikes snow already I can barely wait

Nice boat. Can we have some more pics please? The garage looks really suitable for bike building and the project is looking great. You've done a great job my friend.

Waiting to hear of that bike running.

Thanks for the update.

Cheers,
Spyug

Well, the arctic circle is only a couple of hours away so the first snow usually arrives in mid-october. However, most of it is already gone now since it was pretty warm today. Last year we didn't get any real snow until a week before christmas, and after that we had the most snow we've had in 18 years.

More pictures of the boat? Here's two I took when we had hauled it outside.

As for the bike running, here's a clip from earlier this summer with the original 1134cc. Should make a bit more noise with the 1230cc bore now.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B72k3p1RXYY

 

[posplayr]

just listened to that engine again, those 0.348" are much loppier than my 0.340's

at 1230 should be a really mean machine.

 

[Mindless]

just listened to that engine again, those 0.348" are much loppier than my 0.340's

at 1230 should be a really mean machine.

With 257 degrees duration on the cams and something like 20 degrees of cam overlap (forgot how much), it's bound to sound a bit... raw. Your cams are a bit more "lean".

But yeah, it should be a nice machine with the 1230cc kit, new adjustable ignition system and some head work.

 

[midnightcafe]

^ I love tech talk

music to my ears :-\\\

 

[spyug]

Thanks for the boat pics and the bike vid. I love the linesof that hull. What is the story there? I'm guessing its a traditional style (for your area) and likely a small fisherman of some sort. What does it run for power? Maybe you could bolt in the 'Zuk engine...seems like there would be enough power from that mill.

After reading your post and seeing the pics of the snow I heard that we have also had snow up north and out west. Maybe its a sign of early winter or more likely something to do with the change in weather patterns caused by global warming or some such. Time to tune up the snowblower.

cheers,
Spyug.

 

[gearhead13]

just listened to that engine again, those 0.348" are much loppier than my 0.340's

at 1230 should be a really mean machine.

Yup that thing sounds good, and I would love to get some 348's but I think my neighbours and the local cops wouldnt like the noise
But maybe I will do it anyway sometime, its tempting

 

[Mindless]

Thanks for the boat pics and the bike vid. I love the linesof that hull. What is the story there? I'm guessing its a traditional style (for your area) and likely a small fisherman of some sort. What does it run for power? Maybe you could bolt in the 'Zuk engine...seems like there would be enough power from that mill.

After reading your post and seeing the pics of the snow I heard that we have also had snow up north and out west. Maybe its a sign of early winter or more likely something to do with the change in weather patterns caused by global warming or some such. Time to tune up the snowblower.

cheers,
Spyug.

Not that knowledgeable about the boat myself but it was built in 1947 for a man here in town. Only a handful was made back then and of those this one is unique (the hulls construction). I don't know what it was originally built to be used as but it's been used for recreational purposes over the last 50 years at least (testimonies from old boat folks in town).

Right now it's been powered by a Volvo Penta BB70, with a top speed of about 10 knots.

We usually get our first snow in early October so actually it was a couple of weeks late this year. As I said though, it thaws away pretty much instantly and the real snow usually doesn't come until mid-november.

Yup that thing sounds good, and I would love to get some 348's but I think my neighbours and the local cops wouldnt like the noise
But maybe I will do it anyway sometime, its tempting

I like it too. Not sure the police will though.

As for the 348's, well, in hindsight, maybe I should have gone for some other cams. They are quite lumpy for road use, especially when I didn't have the benefit of some bigger cc's and a bit more compression before. But now with the 1230 piston kit and maybe some head work on the way, they should be really good.

Up in speed and on the track though - wow!