When do you expect ev bikes to become practical road bikes.

[wyly]

I've been away from the forum for a while, a personal tragedy consumed my life I put aside my love of motorcycles for something more dear to me, my wife who passed away 3 weeks ago.

I see now my thread "How near are we to the end of ICE motorcycles?" is gone I have no idea why so I'll take the chance that it wasn't because I offended the forum moderator with a rules infraction.

It's been well established the end of ICEs will come in 2035 when manufacturers will cease ev production, a number will have switched Ev before then. Consumers demand may very well force the end before that date.

From what I recall when I last contributed to the thread there were doubters that the new solid state battery technology would be arriving before the end of the decade. Solid state will be the final nail in the ICE technology. Chinese auto manufacturer Nio will begin production late this year or early 24 with long range SS, 900-1000kms. Fast charge, low fire hazard, more energy in a small package. Toyota being more secretive in SS production appears to be heading toward a 2024-25 production of its' SS hybrids. I also recall someone responding that Tesla won't change SS Tesla will change or become irrelevant like Blackberry, evolve or die. Why would Tesla refuse a better battery to produce a better product, if they don't sales will go elsewhere.

How this pertains to motorcycles is important as consensus on this forum indicates we all love the torque of EVs the range for something other than city rides and commutes falls short of what we need. SS would go a long ways to changing this, offering 40% more energy/range in a similar size of battery. With an improvement of charging infrastructure the last hurdle to ev motorcycle takeover could disappear. Yeah I know there are diehards that'll never give up their beloved vintage noisy ICEs myself included but there are new generations of riders coming that don't care about museum pieces.​

 

[Guest]

I grew up a race car fan. Most of the excitement of watching races is the sound of power! You can feel the power. Go to an EV race and see how thrilling it is. Why do we put different exhausts on? Because it sounds good. I hope we never switch to only EV, they have no soul. I think hydrogen powered ICE should be the future, especially if you are worried about pollution.

 

[Baatfam]

II see now my thread "How near are we to the end of ICE motorcycles?" is gone I have no idea why so I'll take the chance that it wasn't because I offended the forum moderator with a rules infraction.

Here it is: How near are we to the end of ICE motorcycles?

I grew up a race car fan. Most of the excitement of watching races is the sound of power! You can feel the power. Go to an EV race and see how thrilling it is. Why do we put different exhausts on? Because it sounds good. I hope we never switch to only EV, they have no soul. I think hydrogen powered ICE should be the future, especially if you are worried about pollution.

Do deaf people enjoy racing? I think so....because it's not about how loud, racing is about how fast.

I don't care much about the noise, in fact I like my motor vehicles quiet. And fast! And that has EV written all over it.

Anywho....I hope I get a chance to get an EV motorbike before I move on. For sure my next car will be.

 

[Rich82GS750TZ]

I believe the thread How near are we to the end of ICE motorcycles?​ was moved to the Vortex, since I can no longer view it.

 

[unfocused]

I'm 55. I don't ever see them becomming practicle while I'm still alive. Read: I will never own one.

 

[rphillips]

For me, batt. technology and cost are the main drawbacks. Batt. tech has come a long way within the past few yrs., but as the gain in batt. technology has got better, the price has got a lot higher also. For my GS1100E, lead acid $43 and lithium ion $128, and probably still not enough technology to get us to the point EV's will be reasonable...I'll just sit back and see what happens.

 

[Baatfam]

I'm 55. I don't ever see them becomming practicle while I'm still alive. Read: I will never own one.

Well I am 67 and am planning on owning one soon....So tired of gas/oil/air cleaner/spark plugs/valve checks....and on, and on, and on.

 

[Rob S.]

I'm 55. I don't ever see them becomming practicle while I'm still alive. Read: I will never own one.

Ditto, ditto and ditto.

 

[bccap]

I'm planning on getting one just not the kind you guys are talking about...... One with pedals. I've been researching them and joined a few Facebook groups to learn what to choose. The consensus among riders is to go Class 1 mid-drive. But I need to rent a few to see what my needs are as I'm finding myself rather weak lately so I may have to go Class 2 which has a throttle only mode. I don't want to do that but I expect a few rentals will decide it for me .....The one I want is a Gazelle but I need to rent one a few times to see if it will fill my needs as it is Class 1 ......

 

[dpep]

I see now my thread "How near are we to the end of ICE motorcycles?" is gone I have no idea why so I'll take the chance that it wasn't because I offended the forum moderator with a rules infraction.

Unfortunately your thread was converted to climate change by the usual retrograde forces and it was necessary to move it into Vortex. If anyone wants to get Vortex access to follow it let me know. If you already have access Bob's link above will take you there.

I welcome your restart of the subject here and will make a deliberate effort to see that it does not get likewise tainted.

 

[dpep]

I personally am waiting for the prices to come down a bit more and the ranges to go up a bit more to buy an EV motorcycle or scooter. But it is definitely on my to-do list.

I recently went full solar for my home and I look forward to doing all or most of my local travel without gasoline or grid--just the sunshine that falls on my property.

 

[Rijko]

I think what people regard as "practical" is what makes answers differ - i think we are almost there, for some we are there already.

Had colleagues that only wanted a quick and cheap way to commute, less than 100 km one way.
Several bikes offer great solutions for that.

With 300-500 km range, several models offer enough for people that don't make long trips.
With recharge times for some bikes dropping to 15 minutes or less for a charge from 10 to 90%, i do not think that's a disadvantage anymore.

I am a petrol head.
I love to hear my bikes, feel them work, hum, grunt, scream ... love different bikes though.
Love my GT750 for the 2-stroke experience, the fourstrokes for their nature.

But i also test drove several EV's including a Zero and love the silence and torque.

I absolutely love the Lightning LS-218 and the new Strike models.
If i could afford it i would own an LS-218.

I remember my first experience on a tuned Rickman Kawasaki Z900 with big bore kit when i was 18.
Felt like the guy in the video on the Lightning LS-218, may never experience it again ... hope i will

 

[Suzukian]

If Toyota's new battery pans out, it could really be a game changer. If half the range of what they car get out of that battery were put into a bike, it would make a motorcycle with incredible range. One other development was a law that was amended last week that in essence states: "Any recovery of precious minerals from recycling batteries in the U.S.shall be considered as minerals sourced from the United States". That made those huge piles of batteries become very expensive all of a sudden as companies are sprouting up everywhere to recycle them, no taxes on the minerals. .

Personally, I will never own one. I can't justify the price of a new I.C.E. vehicle let alone something that costs 1/4 of the price of a house, and I already own 3 motorcycles,, 3 cars, and one motorhome. No car payments, and got rid of all my Credit Card bills, so it's just the mortgage and taxes (and repairs on any and everything), which I can do most of.

I have 2 friends who went full Solar, but did so around 20 years ago. They may have done it too soon. I've read articles that state they have a life of 20 to 30 years, depending on a host of factors. Their panels are no longer producing enough electricity and they were disconnected from the grid. Now it turns out that they have to pay around $5K to have the panels "recycled', and no "Transfer Stations" will just let them throw them away. That does not include the cost of having them removed. They don't look to good either, so leaving them up could be an option, but they could have someone complain about them being an eye soar (my town sucks like that). The newer "box" type panels as opposed to the cloth sheet older ones look far more robust. I have had 3 companies come to my house, and they look at a picture from Google Maps, see all the trees, and cancel. I told each company that they picture is old, and the two Tornadoes that dropped onto my property removed every single tree. So not one company will even come and look. I also life on the western side of a hill, (I have the only flat property on that hill) and since the Sun doesn't crest to around 11:00 a.m., I think that disqualifies me too. Wind mills were zoned out. I always have a breeze too, as I live between too lakes and there is a Zephyr that always flows.

Toyota Battery Link: https://www.topspeed.com/toyotas-solid-state-batteries-up-to-932-miles/

 

[unfocused]

Well I am 67 and am planning on owning one soon....So tired of gas/oil/air cleaner/spark plugs/valve checks....and on, and on, and on.

I accept your point. However, I still enjoy asking people if they know how to adjust the points and I like the sound of exhaust echoing through my shed, rattling my brain

 

[93Bandit]

If we're talking strictly consumer demand driven shift to EVs for the masses, they must meet a few requirements for that to happen. They must at minimum have equal range, equal charge time (to that of filling your tank with fuel) and equal initial/operational costs. Otherwise consumers as a whole won't adopt the technology as it doesn't make sense financially nor is it practical. Obviously there are government forces behind the shift to EV, but those aside, consumers will choose EV when EVs are advantageous. At this point in time, EVs are not practical for most folks. They're too expensive and your travel is limited. EVs aren't selling well and are piling up on dealer lots. One could argue it's because most are Luxury type EVs so are too expensive, but I think there's more at play than cost alone. https://www.axios.com/2023/07/10/unsold-electric-cars-are-piling-up-on-dealer-lots

I understand there are those who will buy EVs regardless because they like the new tech or whatever, but those few individuals don't drive the market as a whole.

 

[dorkburger]

I don't know when, but I think it will be sooner then later. Locally, E bike use has increased tremendously and at this point E bikes seem to be the modern version of 70s and 80s mopeds. It's not a that big of a jump to a proper e motorcycle. Like most, I enjoy the sensations of of my ICE motorcycle, but the thought of silently trolling around town late at night appeals to me.

 

[gtem]

I'd love for my wife to have an *affordable* EV car as her commuter that I have to worry about even less maintenance (less than her already very easy-to-live-with Camry 4cyl). A pre-requisite is that it not be as screen-dependent as a current Tesla (various basic controls buried three menus deep), and not have these "over the air" updates and access to the vehicle remotely and can shut off or turn on features and functionality on their whim. I have precisely *ZERO* interest in an EV motorcycle. I can have 300 miles of range or more and go 0-60 in 1 second, it doesn't matter. I ride because I enjoy going up and down the gears and listening to and feeling the response of the engine, and yes I'm the weirdo that enjoys doing some maintenance and even having that special smell in the garage. I'll pay $10/gal+ for gas if need-be.

 

[bwringer]

I grew up a race car fan. Most of the excitement of watching races is the sound of power! You can feel the power. Go to an EV race and see how thrilling it is. Why do we put different exhausts on? Because it sounds good. I hope we never switch to only EV, they have no soul. I think hydrogen powered ICE should be the future, especially if you are worried about pollution.

I've actually been to electric motorcycle races, and they are just as thrilling without the engine noise.

You can still hear the sound of machinery; they're just different sounds. You get the the squeaks and squeals of the tortured tires (until electric racing, who knew that motorcycle tires made noise?), the sizzle of the chains, the whine and whirr of electric motors pushed to their limits. Brakes and suspension make some surprising noises sometimes as well. It's also really cool how you can hear more of the crowd, and in fact the announcer told us to cheer on our favorites; at the slower speeds in corners, the riders could actually hear the crowd.

And spectators can actually hear and talk to each other; it's more of a shared experience that way. Lots more chatter and discussion. And you don't have to wear hearing protection, and force your kids into earmuffs.

I totally get that there really is something about the visceral, physical wallop of racing engines at full song. It's a loss in some ways, but losing that means you can also gain in other ways. For example, electric motorcycles mean there can be more places to ride. More road courses, trails, and dirt tracks can be saved if they don't have to shut down due to noise. More and more large cities are going to restrict access to the city center to EVs.

Yes, electric racing is a very different kind of kick. But it's still very exciting.

As you say, hydrogen engines might become a way to preserve internal combustion racing in all its noisy glory.



As far as electric motorcycles for consumers, I think Erik Buell's new Fuell Fllow represents the best available set of features, use case (commuting, not touring), price, and other characteristics given the range limitations of current battery technology.
https://www.fuell.us/products/fuell-fllow-e-motorcycle

Again, the Fllow is what we can do now. To get beyond that to true two-wheeled ICE replacements, we're going to need another advancement or two in battery capacity vs. weight. (And of course electrified bicycles are exploding in popularity right now.)

Our pal Robin Dean recently scored an interview with Erik Buell on his podcast, The Riding Obsession. The segment with Erik Buell starts about 34 minutes in, and is well worth a listen to hear an experienced engineer and manufacturer talk about designing, manufacturing, and marketing an exciting, but reality-based electric motorcycle.
https://tro.bike/podcast/2023e06/


As with current electric cars, most riders or households with electric motorcycles will have other ICE motorcycles for long-distance use, or for a different experience, for a long time to come.

And as for me, I'll keep my GS850G for ever and ever. Maybe eventually I'll have to get a special permit to buy containers of synthetic "Gas-O-Kleen" at the hardware store.

 

[rphillips]

I have no problem with EV's nor the folks wanting one, probably good idea. But like everything else I think we need to evolve into them. I've been thinking maybe we're being kind'f forced to them before they have got figured out enough to make them what folks will want to buy without being told you've got to buy EV cause we ain't going to sell anything else.... Price and range, yep, we're getting there, just not there yet.

 

[rphillips]

OOhhh, the sound and smell is exciting. I guess folks thought the same thing back when we went from racing horses to the ICE autos. Possibly kind'f the same thing only backwards... I'd never thought what the sound would be like without the ICE, no doubt something to think about..