1st Gen GSXR upgrade for GS1100ED

[posplayr]

EDIT: Avideo after the 2009 Mt Shast GSR trip (2500 miles 8 days)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fJCjTS-TJc8


EDIT: OK if you are impatient, and want to see the finished product without wading through a bunch of posts go here.

http://www.thegsresources.com/_forum/showpost.php?p=1073016&postcount=114

http://www.thegsresources.com/_forum/showpost.php?p=1083191&postcount=145

OK I have been a little under the radar on my plans for the GS1100ED and since Ray asked, I decided to start a new thread and post a few pics.

So for point of reference, here is my fleet and the garage space I'm trying to work in. I'm not NEAR as organized as jwhelan65

OK so an quick overview of this phase of the project. After much hemming and hawing and research here and looking at other projects and getting an 86 GSXR with 91 GSXR 17" conversion I finally decided to go with a moderate and more subtle upgrade for the ED and go with a 1st Gen Gixxer conversion . It started using the 87 wheels but I got a set of 88 (3 spokes) and so that is where I'm heading now.

Pros/Cons:
* I don't get the fatty 180/55-17 rear I settle for a 160-60-18 (or 170/60-18 as installed)
* no USD forks but the 1st Gen forks are 41 mm (v.s. 37 stock) the axles are 17 mm v.s. 15 mm stock (although not 20 mm as the ) Slingshot forks (50mm upper and 41 mm lower).
* I get upgraded radials and wider rubber
* I get upgraded brakes (two pot vs single pot on 310 mm rotors v.s. 280 mm)
* forks will look stock to the uninitiated
* wheels will not but they will look like 2nd GEn wheels albeit 18" v.s. 17"
* Not as much chain and wheel clearance issues
* reduced offset on he counter sprocket (3/8" v.s. 5/8")
* improved ground clearance (18" v.s. 17" conversion)
* The reduced squeeze is paying off in that I was able to get the to retain the stock brake master without relocation or having to use rear sets.

Overview summary of the parts (updated 2/12/14)

My original intent was to build a bike that is close to how it would have been done in the early 90's while still retaining the look of the stock bike. Kind of a vintage factory resto-mod if you like. It is supposed to look (to the untrained eye), as if it could have come from the factory this way.

Suspension:
* 88 GSXR 1100 3 spoke wheels 2.75"x18" and 4.5"x18" (front/rear) running 110/80-18 and 170/60-18 (F/R)
* Galfer Wave rotors ft, GSXR rotor back, EBC HH sintered pads all around
* 87-88 1100 forks (29.3") with Race Tech emulators and springs
* stock triple 87-88 GSXR 1100, aftermarket GSXR fork brace
(Note you can increase the trail by using a 1st Gen GSXR 750 triple clamp. The 750 offset is more than the 1100 )
* modified GSXR top triple with GS1100ED handle bar risers, Gauge mounts and steering stops
* Katman modified 2002 Bandit swingarm and offset pivot spacers to fit stock rear brake master
* Modified rear brake pivot so I don't have to relocate the brake master (allows me to retain the stock foot pegs).
* Bandit chain guard , Bandit brake arm
* 1st Gen GSXR under-slung brake master
* SU-145 Ohlins (stock length + 30-50mm)
* 530 gear conversion with 3/8 offset sprocket
* 2nd Gen GSXR fork mounted steering damper.
* Stainless brake lines
* Disabled 83 GS1100 anti dives fitted to GSXR forks.

Engine:
* 1166 10.25 CR Weisco
* Ported Head (by headsbikesmopars) with 28mm 1150 intakes , backcut valves and Serdi radius cut valve job.
* 0.340 Webcams
* High pressure Gears
* Welded Superhub with all EBC clutch springs.
* DJ Jetted 1150 BST36 carbs using LM-2 from Innovate Motorsports
* Top End Oiler with GregB distribution block

Exhaust:
*FrankenYoshi: stainless Yoshi 2nd Gen GSXR 4:2:1 , Vintage CB550 Honda Yoshi can, V&H spickets, custom stainless midpipe/hanger.
* And not is was not cheap to put all this together.

Body
* Maier Sport Fairing Large
* Color matched to OEM red Pearl paint
* Vintage Sport rack
* Corbin Seat
* Vintage Restoration Decal set with various Suzuki/Yoshi/etc decals from ebay
* Engine guards with matching GS1100ED rear foot pegs

Electrical:
* Solid State Power Box (fuse box replacement eliminated Ignition Relay Modification)
* Compufire Series R/R
* Accel Coils with stock ignitor
* Electrosport Stator with oil sprayer
* Lighted 2 1/4" dash gauges Oil Pressure and Voltmeter and Power Plug
* Amperite "STOP ALLERT" brake flasher
Here is a pic doing alignment measurements to determine rear spacers ; been working closely with Katman on that. The 88 18"x4.5" wheels are unique somewhat different to the 17"x5.5"

Here is the modified rear brake pivot knuckle. I cut off the little arms and rewelded them about 5 mm each to provide clearance for both the rear brake plunger rod and the return springs between the frame and the bandit swinger. A 4.5 mm offset to the Bandit arm is required to accomplish this. No other spacers behind the master are required. Basically this allows me to keep the stock pegs, rear brake pedal and master cylinder and no welding on the frame. Here is the finished modified part:




And here is the final clearance achieved.

http://i449.photobucket.com/albums/...ditSwingarm/plunger_Clearance_zps4b0328cd.jpg


Continued

All the pictures are screwed up; here is a link to a slide show

http://s449.photobucket.com/user/posplayr/slideshow/GSR/BanditSwingarm

 

[posplayr]

More

More

One of the complications of doing the Gixxer conversion is getting the triple clamp right. Sure the stock triple with fit right into the ED frame using the stock ED bearings, but you still have to deal with the following:

1.) risers for super bike bars
2.) steering stops
3.) Clock mounts
4.) Ignition key/mounts

The current plan is to cut all these parts off of a stock ED and weld them to a 1st gen Gixxer triple clamp. After clean up and paint everything should look pretty stock.

Here is the ravaged donor ED triple.

Deciding now whether to find some one to do all of this odds and ends welding or get a MIG welder to DIY.

Pos

 

[jed.only]

can i have the handlebar mounts you cut off?

 

[posplayr]

Let me spell it out

Let me spell it out

can i have the handlebar mounts you cut off?

IN OH


Pos

EDIT: Jed Sorry those are the pieces I plan to get welded to the GSXR triple top.

 

[Guest]

POS,

Great thread, looking forward to following your conversion so to speak. Really like the idea of using the 18" wheels. Many will chime in and say you have more options with 17 inch but a quick check will show you that Bridgestone and Michelin offer most of their sport and sport touring tires in 18". I looked for a long time and couldn't find a set of 88s.

Keep the info flowing. PS great idea working upside down. Never would have thought of that but it makes so much sense.

 

[posplayr]

isleoman

isleoman

isleoman

quick check will show you that Bridgestone and Michelin offer most of their sport and sport touring tires in 18".

Yea, this is probably the top runner for 18"

http://www.tiresunlimited.com/ALL TIRES/Michelin/Michelin_Pilot_Road2.htm

I looked for a long time and couldn't find a set of 88s.

I bought the set that SRADER over at Gixxer.com had. Not cheap and not perfect but they are polished and so they will not be that much work to get respectable. I finally went 18" after failing to find a reasonable 2nd gen 4:2:1 exhaust to get the extra ground clearance that 80gs1000 did.


I think you were the source of the modified Knuckle idea (Josh has it). I have not see the modified part but I took the idea and ran with it.

great idea working upside down. Never would have thought of that but it makes so much sense.

I'm using a crutch by having the spare frame. I got it from Ray to help me figure out how to put my ridable ED back together. No if I end up doing any frame bracing, it will be to this frame and I will swap it all over.


Rob and I have been going back and forth on wheels, swingers , spacers , cush hubs, alignment and all that. I'll have to confirm with him, but we might publish the results of different measurement approaches, tolerance requirements and measurement accuracy results. Diagrams to be included.

Pos

 

[jed.only]

IN OH


Pos

EDIT: Jed Sorry those are the pieces I plan to get welded to the GSXR triple top.

ah, i misunderstood. i thought they were scrap.

 

[Guest]

I think you were the source of the modified Knuckle idea (Josh has it). I have not see the modified part but I took the idea and ran with it.




POS,

Thought I posted it but might have sent to someone in an email also. In either case this is how mine was modified

I never got past dry fitting mine but it did work dry.

 

[posplayr]

Kuckle

Kuckle

Looks like that 82 knuckle part is the same as the 83. You did it a little different as you seem to have routed the plunger even further away from centerline.

I came up with something a little different. Your idea as well as Katman of spacing the swinger further over gave me about 10 mm total.

Here you see the plunger arm was moved flush with the surface that bears against the frame boss. The plunger comes right in between (with adequate clearance I hope) of about 1 mm on either side allowing for the adjuster nut rotation.

Pos

In the other post I showed how i also moved the spring arm and got the return springs off of the swinger. Katman is going to make me some new pivot bushings to get this offset.

 

[Guest]

Will you be able to turn right?

That 83 frame is mine when you're done with it.
I will not be denied!

That bike is going to be bad a$$.

 

[posplayr]

Pototype under development

Pototype under development

Will you be able to turn right?

Yes Bill will have Hinging spigots for the headers so they swing to the outside of the turn providing better clearance ^o

That bike is going to be bad a$$.

It will be if i do the welding.....

Pos

 

[Guest]

One of the complications of doing the Gixxer conversion is getting the triple clamp right. Sure the stock triple with fit right into the ED frame using the stock ED bearings, but you still have to deal with the following:


The current plan is to cut all these parts off of a stock ED and weld them to a 1st gen Gixxer triple clamp. After clean up and paint everything should look pretty stock.

Here is the ravaged donor ED triple.

POS

Just a thought. There are bolt on risers available on EBAY for example:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/NEW-...ryZ10066QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

Does the GSXR top tripple not allow for drilling hole to accept risers? The example above was just something I found quick not necessarily what I'd go with. They have nicer looking black ones also. I wonder if you really even need more than one bolt for each riser. Once the bars are tight I don't think they would be able to rotate. I think my Gen 1 FZ1 only has one bolt per riser but it also sits in sort of a recess. I bolted my risers to my 94 GSXR top tripple. You could also drill/tap the bottoms of your ED risers and run the bolts from the bottom of the tripple up into them. Again, Just a thought.

Actually after looking at your ED risers again, just drill all the way through the existing holes and use longer bolts with nuts on the under side of the tripple.

 

[posplayr]

Risers

Risers

Yes i have looked at various risers and single or dual bolt configurations, but after looking at the Gen 1 gixxer triple top, it is rather thin and relies on internal webbing (underneath) for strength. One of the webs is right where you would want to bolt the risers.

Even if i went this way it would only solve one problem,risers. I would still have, clocks mounts, ignition and steering stops to deal with. Because the spacing under the fairing and the spacing of the clocks to the ignition is kinda tights I though it best to cut these pieces of an just get them welded to the triple.

I'll keep the triple mounted to a set of forks to minimize any warpage during welding.

Pos

P.S. any ideas on steering stops? Thinking to get some round stock and drill holes in the lower triple and have that welded in.

 

[tone]

Ok here goes ....

I'm a little confused as to which front end you are using here tbh but i'm guessing its the early gix one if so i cant see why you didnt just stuff the whole lot in including yokes, much easier 87 /88 forks are not first generation gsxr

RE- drilling the stock gix top yoke, its not a problem as all you need to do is weld in a couple of ally triangles then drill exactly where you want for the risers, plenty strong & safe enough

Lastly ive never liked drilling & bolting the bottom yoke for lockstops as the position of the holes needed is quite close to the edge in most cases & a good hard bang can stress crack the yoke, i suppose welding bits in as above would help but imo its far better to re-weld new lockstops onto the frame to suit

Sorry if all that sounds a little negitive but i really do wish you'd asked before getting so far into it, tone

 

[Guest]

Jim,

I REALLY like the idea of scrapping an upper triple and welding it... I may see if I can find a scrap and do the same thing. I won't do it if I can't find another...I want to keep the the OEM stuff I have.

I am in the middle of scoring Bandit parts for converting my '82 to cartridge forks. Already have the triples and handlebar mounts and a front rim. Would like to get a Bandit swinger and have Katman do the conversion for dual shocks, too, if he still offers the service.

Keep up the good work!!

Mike

 

[Sunburn]

Sorry if all that sounds a little negitive but i really do wish you'd asked before getting so far into it, tone

I wonder how this sounded before the edit

 

[tone]

I wonder how this sounded before the edit

The edit was for spelling only

 

[Sunburn]

The edit was for spelling only

Oh, well it was a good post but that last sentence made you sound really pompous. I would have went a little deeper then the spelling on that last edit.

 

[tone]

Oh, well it was a good post but that last sentence made you sound really pompous. I would have went a little deeper then the spelling on that last edit.

Oh well sorry about that mate ive spent to much time working on bikes & not enough time worrying about my spelling or how stuff i write comes across, appologies to anyone ive offended

tone

 

[posplayr]

Tone

Tone

Tone,
I was responding to this thread last Sat and just as I submitted the reply the site DSN problem came up and I lost my entire reply. Oh well here it is a week later so I'm starting the post all over.

I'm a little confused as to which front end you are using here tbh but i'm guessing its the early gix one if so i cant see why you didnt just stuff the whole lot in including yokes, much easier

I have a pair of 87 GSXR 1100 forks. I also have a set of 86 GSXR 1100 forks but they will have to be drilled to accept the 17mm axles. Both are virtually identical save for the axle bolt sizes.

87 /88 forks are not first generation gsxr

Don't understand this comment. From hanging out at Gixxer.com , Oldschool as well as here the 85-87 GSXR 750's and 86-88 GSXR 1100 are Gen 1 Slabsides. The later GSXR which are not water cooled are considered Gen 2 (87-91 GSXR 750 and 88-92 GSXR 1100).

RE- drilling the stock gix top yoke, its not a problem as all you need to do is weld in a couple of ally triangles then drill exactly where you want for the risers, plenty strong & safe enough

Since I'm going to be welding anyway and need to solve the clock mount and key mount problem as well, I figured to give it the stock look. The main point that I would like to draw out is that just drilling and bolting on risers with these early GSXR triple tops is not a good idea as they are rather thin (1/4" perhaps).

For those that don't know, these pics show the difference in steering stops for a 1st Gen GSXR compared to a 80-83 GS.

Here is how I'm going to weld the gage mount to the front of the GSXR upper triple. I had to grind away the original ignition switch bolt bosses.

Lastly ive never liked drilling & bolting the bottom yoke for lockstops as the position of the holes needed is quite close to the edge in most cases & a good hard bang can stress crack the yoke, i suppose welding bits in as above would help but imo its far better to re-weld new lockstops onto the frame to suit

Looking to do steering stops that do not require welding the frame. Some people would also like to know how to do the modification and not have to strip down the frame to weld stops to it. Katman had done some nice beefy lower yoke stops that are probably as strong if not stronger than anything you can weld on to the steering tube.

Sorry if all that sounds a little negitive but i really do wish you'd asked before getting so far into it, tone

You contributions to the site have not gone unnoticed (by me at least). I have read many if not all of your posts during GSXR conversion searches here. In fact I have been trying you approach for "straight edge" wheel alignment that you outlined in a recent post. In addition I have been talking to Katman (Rob) for a few months about different approaches. And recently in great detail about Bandit swing arm alignment. Further, I bought what I thought was a 1st Gen GSXR conversion already installed on a GS1100E as a starting point. So while I did not direct any questions to you specifically, I did not just jump into this blind either.

I have been going through this methodically and will document the key elements of what I go through. I do happen to have many of the parts for 2nd generation 17" wheels and USD forks so I can contrast the 1st gen approach to 2nd gen.

As it turns out the package conversion I bought was basically a botched job and none of the real issues in the conversion had been dealt with properly. So the bottom line is I have been going through this process with a fine tooth comb (working with Rob) to figure out what is relevant practically as well as mathematically in terms of alignments (wheel, swing arm, and counter shaft sprocket), trying to minimize changes to the stock frame and to make the conversion appear relatively stock.

What prompted me to post this thread was that I was running into a concern on how to do the the steering stops. I come to expect that I will get many inputs on how to do any question asked at GSR. I don't take it for granted and appreciate your expert inputs on the subject of stops as well as the whole conversion. I try to give back by laying out the step by step of what I have learned. And having gone through the process, I'm detailing out the not so obvious elements "gotcha"s that the experts gloss over because they assume the newbie already knows.

I have some more spacers coming from Katman, but did receive my Bandit rear axle and chain guard so I'm pretty close to mounting the swinger on my red ED to check the wheel/chain alignments. I also found a great local welder so plan to get the triple and other aluminum bits welded next week.

Thanks for you inputs. And anybody else feel free.

Pos