'78 GS1000E Up and running, Almost ready for paint.

[Guest]

I intend to replace this motor with one of the others, so you can assume that when I get into adjusting the carburetors, the compression and valves will be correct. I will keep you informed of the progress. If it's January or February, I'll still ride weather permitting. After all of this, I intend to see everything done right. I'll contact George and see if he will do anything about it in a quick turn around. If not, I'll get the stage three jet kit, because I refuse to waste another riding season "Waiting for Godot". I'm going to get the crated motor ready for inspection tomorrow. I"ll have to order valve seals, and get the starter motor and left case cover changed over, which might lead to polishing the covers before I put it together. I'll dredge this thread back up when I have a good solid motor to work with. I take it that the two vents you are talking about are on the #2 and #4 carburetor at the same level as the vacuum port.

 

[Guest]

I personally wouldn't let George touch my carbs again. Try and get some of your money back, or at the least have him send you the right jets. Do it yourself and you won't have to wonder if it was done right (again).

 

[Guest]

I have been thinking about that. With all the time lost, and the work ahead of me to replace the motor, I tend to agree with you. The old motor was not perfect by any manner of means, but would have lasted through next year or more if the carburetors had been built as advertised. It ran well until the overheating. Afterword, I could tell it wasn't the same. I guess the fact that it is running at all is a tribute to how tough these motors are. We will see how things work out. I do have a complete set of O-Rings, and new boots. My plan was to ride with these carbs while I learned how to rebuild them for the '79.

 

[KEITH KRAUSE]

Sounds good. I think you can do the work yourself.
Years ago it was harder to get help if you didn't know how to do something. With this site, you just ask questions and we can show you how to do something right. With carbs, the most common problems arise if you use poor fitting tools or over-tighten things or try to take short cuts. By far the most involved part of working on your VM's is the jet needle/slide assembly. You must use a good fitting Phillips screwdriver to loosen the 2 screws down in the slide. If you were to strip the head(s) you'd be in trouble. But it's just common sense. Don't force things or be impatient with carbs. It takes a little finger dexterity to work/make adjustments on the slide/jet needle assembly but you can learn. Lay parts down exactly as you remove them and they'll go back right.
If George did the cleaning part right then you shouldn't have any trouble with common problems like stuck air screws and things like that. You will need to buy a vacuum tool. To be honest, some people struggle a bit when learning to synch but we always can see them through if they ask. A very good bench synch will get you running decent but there's no replacement for a careful vacuum tool synch. If you own the bike long enough you'll need the tool for later adjustments since the carbs won't hold the synch forever. If you forget how a part goes back you always have the other carbs to use as a model. Keep the parts to each carb separate too because some parts wear as a matched set such as the float needle valve and it's seat. If George didn't install stainless steel float bowl screws then I suggest buying those. Another suggestion is to buy Allen heads to replace the Phillips bolts used on your manifolds if not done already. At that time inspect the manifolds for cracking, etc. Then replace the o-rings in the manifolds and give a coat of hi-temp bearing grease to help them last. Things like that. I don't mean to jump around with stuff to do/check, just give you some idea of what may need doing.
As for jetting, I've given some info to cover most anything you decide on but just ask and I can give you my best guess knowing exactly what we're working with. If possible, I do suggest buying the jet kit. It will work, where choosing the stock needle separate jet thing may not work as well at all throttle positions. I'll give you the jetting set up that most commonly works with DJ. Many here have said it was spot on the first time with only basic pilot fuel and air screw adjustments needed to fine tune. If a change of the jet needle was needed then I really doubt you'd have to make more than 1 change.
If you go with the stock needle and we're running a healthy motor then I'll give you that info too but you can expect some trial and error and the chance you won't be satisfied. Whatever you choose, let us know.

Yes, the 2 floatbowl vent lines are attached as you described. DJ recommends removing them to avoid fuel starvation, especially in crosswinds. I've tested it myself and always recommend removing them too. I've never had a problem with dirt/dust entering the ports either if that is a concern to you. My bike and a few local friends bikes showed significant fuel starvation at various times with the lines still attached. Some say they don't notice it much but they should come off.
Also, if you like, I can set up the jetting for your carbs. While in there, I can verify the float levels and inner o-rings condition. I'd assume the carbs are clean and there's no hidden issues/trouble due to non-factory parts or damaged hardware. I'm pretty good at bench synching but even my best synch I still consider only as a prep for start up purposes and it must be followed by a vacuum tool synch. Pilot fuel and air screws would be set to a ballpark setting. You would then warm up, adjust idle, set air screws using the highest rpm method and vacuum synch. Then road test all 3 jetting circuits at the required throttle settings and make any necessary adjustments. With the DJ kit I doubt you'd have to change the jet needle position. Position 4 is most commonly used and we've tried it on bikes in many climates including England with good results. With the 138 mains there's little doubt too that it should work, though changing the main jets is very easy. The pilot circuit generally takes some fiddling with because minor changes can give significant results. The pilot circuit is sensitive to any changes and can be a little harder to test for when it comes to reading the plugs. It also effects start up and idling, not just cruising at smaller throttle openings. So there's more too pay attention to. If you don't know how, we can show you how to test the performance of each circuit and get plug reads.
So you see, there are no "bolt on" carbs and you must, at least, do some synching and final tuning. So it's best you learn as I think you plan to. I just wanted to give you the option of sending them to me if you like. There would be no charge of course. The carbs are heavy though and I believe basic UPS shipping would be a good $35/40 round trip. A couple of members have sent their carbs to me in the past and it was about that much. We try to help each other here.

 

[Guest]

Thanks for the offer Keith. I think I'll try this myself. I'll need the experience. My friend has four of these bikes in his basement, and I have another one to bring along eventually. If you would be so kind as to list which tools and gauges I'll need for this work, I would appreciate it. I have access to a manometer, but I would rather get my own tools. I briefly contacted George and he insists that what I described couldn't have happened, so I see where this is going. He just lost 5 rebuild jobs. I'll be ordering the Stage 3 kit soon and post back for the initial setup, so the carbs will be ready to begin adjustment when I get the new motor ready. Are all valve seal replacements ok, or should I be ordering OEM?

 

[KEITH KRAUSE]

Thanks for the offer Keith. I think I'll try this myself. I'll need the experience. My friend has four of these bikes in his basement, and I have another one to bring along eventually. If you would be so kind as to list which tools and gauges I'll need for this work, I would appreciate it. I have access to a manometer, but I would rather get my own tools. I briefly contacted George and he insists that what I described couldn't have happened, so I see where this is going. He just lost 5 rebuild jobs. I'll be ordering the Stage 3 kit soon and post back for the initial setup, so the carbs will be ready to begin adjustment when I get the new motor ready. Are all valve seal replacements ok, or should I be ordering OEM?

I can't really say if the OEM (genuine Suzuki) valve seals are better than some others but I'd go with genuine Suzuki.
As for tools, basic tools are needed such as screwdrivers, wrenches, etc. GOOD FITTING tools is what matters. If the carbs were cleaned and rebuilt as they should be then you shouldn't have much trouble with 30 year old stuck hardware. Much of the hardware and jetting parts require torquing in inches so be aware of how much you tighten things. I don't need an inches torque wrench because I seem to have the feel but if you tend to over do things you may want to use one. The manifold bolts (if stock-Phillips) usually need a good whack with an impact screwdriver and a good fitting bit (can be tricky for some). Float heigth should be checked with verniers or similar.
I use a mercury vacuum tool by Motion Pro I bought years ago. I'm used to it but the Morgan carb tune is better because it doesn't use mercury. You don't have to be concerned about the mercury spilling/getting sucked up and the best advantage of the Morgan is there's no condensation to get mixed in with the mercury and complicate adjusting your vacuum levels. If the synch takes too long and heat builds up, the mercury tool will draw in condensation. I no longer have much trouble with it but it can frustrate others. The Morgan is at least twice the price (about $110?) but is an easier to use tool.
As for fuel feed while synching, some buy or make a remote, vented reservoir that hangs on the bars but I simply set the tank (taped down if you wish) on my workmate and use extended fuel/vacuum lines. A couple of good box fans is needed to avoid over-heating if the synch goes on longer than planned. If you get too hot, let her cool down and try again.
I suggest getting the factory manual.
DJ stage 3 jet kit, good choice.
I'm not surprised about George's reaction. He knows much less about this stuff than he would admit. BS'er.
Keep in mind the bike must be in good tune before jetting so you know any issues are truly jetting related. Valve clearances, ignition timing, good voltage and clean connections everywhere (coils/plug caps/battery), proper NGK B8ES plugs, properly oiled K&N's, etc.
Let us know when you need help.

 

[Guest]

Motion Pro has a sync tool that does not use mercury for $84.00 at Z1. Any opinions on that one? Whatever I get has to be good, I've wasted too much on this project through ignorance already.

 

[Guest]

Motion Pro has a sync tool that does not use mercury for $84.00 at Z1. Any opinions on that one? Whatever I get has to be good, I've wasted too much on this project through ignorance already.

Spend just a few more bucks and get a Carbtune and never regret it. There is nothing more accurate or easier to use.

$100.00 with the pouch.


http://www.carbtune.com/

 

[ramrod400]

what does everyone think about colortune, the see through spark plug to set mixture, thinking about getting one but some think its a pain and can do high idle trick just as good

 

[Guest]

what does everyone think about colortune, the see through spark plug to set mixture, thinking about getting one but some think its a pain and can do high idle trick just as good

In my personal experience, I think it works pretty well on CV carbs, but not as good on VM's with the side air screw and the pilot screw. Just my 2 cents. It will certainly at least get you close, but for me there is nothing better than some plug chops.

 

[ramrod400]

Thanks for reply,My carbs need some help, runs good but not right on the money

 

[Guest]

Who makes the exhaust on your '78?

 

[Guest]

Who makes the exhaust on your '78?

It's a Jardine. I bought it because I have never seen one like it. Sounds real good, too!

 

[Guest]

What model number would one ask for to get one?

 

[Guest]

Mine is the only one of it's kind that I have ever seen. I searched a few years ago for another one with no luck. Jardine used to list a black pipe with aluminum canister, but those are now gone, too.

I think the only 4-1's for the GS1000 that you can get new today are V&H, Mac, and Harris as far as I know.

 

[Guest]

Here's a listing for a Harris:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=300370253411&ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT

 

[Guest]

I like yours better.

 

[Guest]

This winter has been a real PITA. I just got around to ordering my stage 3 jet kit and gaskets for my rebuild of George's rebuild (if you can call it that). I need to get the initial settings for the carburetors ('78 GS1000E, Vance Hines 4 into 1 pipes and K&N Pods). I think I have another carburetor that I can get the idle jets out of. At any rate, I'll have a lot of questions. I'll be able to check out the motor replacement soon, the old one won't start anymore. I think George's super lean build ruined that motor, but that's for another day after I get back on the road with the new motor.

 

[Guest]

I think I have another carburetor that I can get the idle jets out of.

AWWW crap! I was supposed to send you some pilot jets. I totally forgot, but found your address in my PM box. I'll send them out today.

Sorry about that!!

Do a search...use the advice and settings of KeithKrause. He knows the VM carbs better than anyone.

 

[Guest]

The adjustments are most likely buried somewhere in this thread, now that I think about it. I'll have to re-read everything. I had forgotten about the idle jets, thanks again.