Crossing the line...

[gbrown]

First things first, before I get all the crotchety old men answering that I should just 'do it right the first time' and totally disassemble the carbs and rebuild with new o-rings, gaskets, etc.-- I know that! I bought this bike and spent all I had to spend on it and was told by the seller (a friend and someone I trusted) that this bike was NOT a project. I am married and a father of four small boys and have no business taking on another project so I asked before buying. Guess what? It's a project. I do not feel that this friend was dishonest, it just seems his idea of proper maintenance and tuning is different than mine.

Now that we've gotten that out of the way. I would love to disassemble the carbs and rebuild them--but I have no money for that nor do I have access to the experienced help I would need to re-synch the carbs. That being said, the bike ran when I got it, but had old fuel in it. I didn't realize this until I had ridden it quite a bit and fouled the plugs. I cleaned the plugs and she started right up again. I did not drain the tank but added fresh fuel and STP fuel treatment (I already had it). The bike seemed to run ok, but backfired occasionally and didn't idle well/run off choke. Fast forward to last Sunday...

The bike seemed a bit harder to start than normal (actually, I'm always surprised at how quickly it does start, so let's say this time it cranked for 5 seconds instead of the usual 1-2 seconds). I rode it to church without incident. Leaving church I had a few miles on the highway (4th gear, 50 mph) and while riding I could hear the engine change tone. As I slowed to exit the highway it died on me and I quickly downshifted and dropped the clutch to 'bump' start it. It started but would not idle. I was able to keep it running only by twisting the throttle--and it sure sounded funny. I parked and went to lunch. During lunch I had the idea that, perhaps, I needed to turn my petcock to reserve. (If you've read my intro thread, you'll know this is my first bike and I haven't even ran one tank of fuel through it yet, so I'm as green as can be.) After lunch I did so and hit the starter button and the motor just cranked but did not fire. Eventually, after much cajoling and praying, it started and I had to keep it running with the throttle. I reached under the tank and found what I presume is the idle adjustment (???) and realized that it was backed all the way out so I turned it in several turns and got home. Fast forward to today...

I've taken a vacation day from work because I need to have the bike running by Monday (my car's in the shop and I don't know when I'll have it back). Here's the plan of attack:

1. I've removed the tank, drained it, cleaned the petcock assembly with carb cleaner and emptied an entire can of carb cleaner into the tank, followed by compressed air to dry. Reassembled petcock into tank.
2. I've removed my airbox assembly, ordered a new foam filter element (washed mine in a bucket of warm water and dish soap, only to discover it had a gaping tear in it), sealed end caps with foam weatherstripping and inspected boots.
3. I've removed the carbs. Now, my question (finally): How far can I disassemble and clean the carbs without having to re-synch them? I intended to only spray down each throat and put them back on the bike, but I had a coworker tell me that I could (and should) remove the bowls and all of the jets/screws and clean and reassemble. I contested this as I believe it will require a re-synching of the carbs, but he says no. So I humbly present the question here for advice.
4. Install new, properly-gapped, plugs.

PS- A valve adjustment is in my future, I just can't afford it right now. Thanks in advance for any help y'all can offer.

 

[tkent02]

They need to be re-synched already since your friend obviously wouldn't have. A bench synch will get it close enough to ride, but the vacuum synch after the valves are adjusted and the carbs are cleaned and adjusted properly will make it run very well indeed..

No point in bothering to synch anything if it still needs to have the valves adjusted.

 

[bccap]

Not sure what you think rebuilding your carbs will cost but 18 bucks will cover the parts. The only thing you need to replace are the o rings. Plus 4 bucks for the carb boot o rings.
http://www.cycleorings.com/VMkit.html

And a tutorial from BikeCliff's website
http://members.dslextreme.com/users/bikecliff/images/vm_carb_rebuild.pdf

 

[gbrown]

No point in bothering to synch anything if it still needs to have the valves adjusted.

Precisely! And like I said previously, I would love to do so, when it's feasible for me to. At this point I can't afford (time or money) to make matters worse by disassembling the carbs 'too far' so that the bike won't even start/run when I put it back together. I guess I'll just stick to my original plan and only spray down each throat.

 

[gbrown]

Not sure what you think rebuilding your carbs will cost but 18 bucks will cover the parts. The only thing you need to replace are the o rings. Plus 4 bucks for the carb boot o rings.
http://www.cycleorings.com/VMkit.html

And a tutorial from BikeCliff's website
http://members.dslextreme.com/users/bikecliff/images/vm_carb_rebuild.pdf

Wow! Thanks for the insight! (Like I've mentioned previously, I'm totally new to the bike scene.) I've only ever rebuilt auto carbs and so I was looking at it through those past experiences. The last single barrel Rochester I rebuilt (for my 60 chevy truck) wound up costing me about $35, so in my head I was multiplying that by 4 for the bike. What about synching? I could swing the o-rings and gaskets it sounds like, but those carb tune tools are $100! I can't even find anyone locally willing to do it. Hmmm...

 

[bccap]

Be more specific about your location. Members on here are very helpful and often willing to lend you the tool or pop over and assist you. So when you get to that stage just start a thread and ask....

 

[Guest]

Wow! Thanks for the insight! (Like I've mentioned previously, I'm totally new to the bike scene.) I've only ever rebuilt auto carbs and so I was looking at it through those past experiences. The last single barrel Rochester I rebuilt (for my 60 chevy truck) wound up costing me about $35, so in my head I was multiplying that by 4 for the bike. What about synching? I could swing the o-rings and gaskets it sounds like, but those carb tune tools are $100! I can't even find anyone locally willing to do it. Hmmm...

Bench sync em when ya put em back together.

 

[eil]

You have two options available to you:

1) Do the maintenance required to make the bike run
2) Don't ride the bike

If I were a jerk, I could say that you shouldn't have bought a vintage motorcycle if you don't have the time and/or money to maintain it. But I'm not, so I won't.

The bare minimum maintenance that you need to do doesn't cost as much as you think. You might be able to get by with doing a half-arsed job (many have, I have myself on occasion), but understand that it's a gamble.

Rebuilding the carbs is a few bucks in o-rings. No special tools are really needed aside from the proper fitting screwdrivers, and these are usually pulled out of some stash of odd ones that you have lying around. You might be able to get by without the $30 can of carb dip. You can soak the jets in 1/2" of spray carb cleaner in a mason jar.

To answer one of your questions directly: you usually only need to sync the carbs whenever you adjust the valve clearance, or if it hasn't been done in a real long time. You can fully disassemble the carbs without messing up the sync as long as you don't touch the adjustment screw. But honestly, don't worry about it. A bench sync will get them close enough to make the bike perfectly rideable. A vacuum sync is mostly fine-tuning to make it run the best it can at or near idle.

EDIT: There were a few other posts while I was writing this, so take that into context. Also, one of the most common things these old bikes need are new carb boots (particularly carb-to-head), and unfortunately those are not cheap. Figure a little over $100 for all four. If your current ones are hard and leaking air, your engine will run lean which is bad for it. The rest of the parts and maintenance should be significantly more affordable, though.

 

[Steve]

Just for the record, since you are so tight on money, don't even waste the "spray down the throats".

Spraying anything down the carb throat will do absolutely NOTHING to clean the carbs. All of the cleaning that needs to happen will be down deep, INSIDE the carbs, in the fuel passages. Anything you spray will only hit ONE of the AIR passages.

Beyond that, I have nothing to suggest to someone who says:

before I get all the crotchety old men answering that I should just 'do it right the first time' and totally disassemble the carbs and rebuild with new o-rings, gaskets, etc.-- I know that!

and then insists on cutting corners, trying to do it on the cheap. :-&

Just remember ... every corner you cut just means one more time you will have to pull the carbs.

Save your money, (oh, you didn't want to hear this part ) do it right. :-\\\

.

 

[JMHJ]

If none of the knowledgeable guys from the site are close, I'd suggest calling the local dealerships and see if they can point you in the direction of someone who is willing to work on carbs (and good at it). You wouldn't have to invest in the synchronizer and so forth, and maybe you could get it done by trading work or some kind of barter.

If you could get a hold of someone like that, It'd be invaluable if they'd walk you through the process, if you think you may need to do it again at some point.

 

[Guest]

I'm in STL and am willing to lend a hand. I have a carb sync tool as well. How far from STL are you?

I know you don't want to hear to hear it but the truth is the truth. Your friend obviously doesn't understand that any vintage bike, unrestored, IS a project. Period. Be that as it may, they are still loads of fun and great learning experiences if you are into it.

As others have suggested, fully disassemble and clean the carbs. It's fairly cheap and doesn't require any special tools. Do a bench sync and that will get you close enough to get around until you can afford a proper sync, buy the tool, or find someone who does.

Good luck!

 

[posplayr]

One thing that has been known to help (if carbs are not too gummed up) is to pull them remove float bowels and spray carb cleaner through the pilots jets from float bowl and from air jets on intake side. That does not clean everything but worth a first try.

 

[gbrown]

Carb O-Rings and carb boot O-Rings (plus new SHCS) ordered from Robert Barr. New air filter from sleazeBay on the way. I really can't swing another $20 for carb dip so I'm hoping that a disassemble and spray will do the trick. Also, fingers crossed that my fuel bowl gaskets survive the disassemble...

 

[gbrown]

I'm in STL and am willing to lend a hand. I have a carb sync tool as well. How far from STL are you?

I'm in Springfield so, about 3+ hours away, depending on which side of STL you live on. I appreciate the offer and will consider it if necessary. Thanks.

 

[bccap]

Carb O-Rings and carb boot O-Rings (plus new SHCS) ordered from Robert Barr. New air filter from sleazeBay on the way. I really can't swing another $20 for carb dip so I'm hoping that a disassemble and spray will do the trick. Also, fingers crossed that my fuel bowl gaskets survive the disassemble...

Pinesol.....and it smells a Hell of a lot better..
http://www.thegsresources.com/_forum/showthread.php?t=184599&highlight=pinesol

 

[posplayr]

Carb O-Rings and carb boot O-Rings (plus new SHCS) ordered from Robert Barr. New air filter from sleazeBay on the way. I really can't swing another $20 for carb dip so I'm hoping that a disassemble and spray will do the trick. Also, fingers crossed that my fuel bowl gaskets survive the disassemble...

Should have said to pull pilot jets and main jets. Push a piece of copper wire through the jets to make sure they are clear especially if your eye sight is not what it used to be.

Small prices of plastic have been know to lodge in a pilot jet which no amount of spray will dislodge.

 

[Guest]

pull pilot jets and main jets. Push a piece of copper wire through the jets to make sure they are clear especially if your eye sight is not what it used to be.

Works for me!