Frame respray myself OR pro shot blast / powder coat

[ukjules]

I have an old gsx250e where soon the tank and seat will
be in reasonable condition.
All works perfectly and tuned spot on.

The main issue is the frame is very rusty in
places. In winter over a month I could tear
down the bike and sort the frame.

This bike will never be show condition bit
will be clean and mechanically perfect always.

discussion :
The more spraying I do and understanding the
sequence and Method I'm beginning to think that a
normal rub down ,prime ,spray and clear coat will be fine
for this this sort of requirement.

being permanently broke this is prob the way.

Q) What does a home spray job (done properly ) with rattle cans
last / wear like compared to powder coat ?

 

[Nessism]

Q) What does a home spray job (done properly ) with rattle cans
last / wear like compared to powder coat ?

It's hard to compare without more information. For example, is the frame going to get a full sand blasting before rattle can or are you thinking about just a little wire wheeling on the areas easily reached? In terms of powder coat, urethane powder lasts longer than polyester. Either way though most power coaters will sand blast before coating so that's a huge advantage right off the bat. Bottom line, I suspect powder coat will be at minimum several times more durable than rattle can.

 

[alke46]

It's hard to compare without more information. For example, is the frame going to get a full sand blasting before rattle can or are you thinking about just a little wire wheeling on the areas easily reached? In terms of powder coat, urethane powder lasts longer than polyester. Either way though most power coaters will sand blast before coating so that's a huge advantage right off the bat. Bottom line, I suspect powder coat will be at minimum several times more durable than rattle can.

But also several more times expensive. If you are on a tight budget, just something else to consider. Contact a local powdercoater and ask for an estimate.

 

[ukjules]

I have most of the sanding tools to sort the entire frame.
I could get it shot blasted but unlikely now as i have
talked myself into doing this myself and saving myself a fortune.
If I find a shot blaster who will do it at my request for
a pint of lager i will allow that....

I am told originally frames this age were wet sprayed only
with. no clearcoat.
I look at powder coated bikes and I think they look wrong.
my bikes are mechanical restores and not visually
museum perfect.


As with 2 days work I could have the frame off the bike
and almost ready for priming I think I have answered
my own question.

its rattle cans of either satin black or semi gloss.
no clearcoat.

new question is :

satin black or semi gloss ?

 

[dorkburger]

Aeons ago I had a frame sandblasted then primed / painted it with either rattlecan or automotive paint with Dads cheap spraygun - cant remember which. It held up fine for the next several years. Its now a mostly disassembled bike sitting in my cousins barn....

 

[hampshirehog]

new question is :

satin black or semi gloss ?

You'll start a fight...��

Personally I think I've moved from satin to gloss but I might change my mind again.

Blast and powder coat for a frame near me is about ?100. Add all the other black bits for about ?75.

If you're just after a cheap and cheerful job and doing it yourself work out which bits of frame you can see when the tank, seat and panels are on and focus your finish on those areas.

 

[ukjules]

i most certainly dont do cheap and cheerful !
I do however minimize cost but for the best finish possible ...
It is amazing the finish you can get out of rattle cans !


I have rattle canned two tanks so far. my gpz750r1
and my rd250 (silver) both are damned good.

doing a frame is easier than a tank ! and far more forgiving
it cannot be denied .

iv answered my own question but I'll put a thread on here
when I do it. for my amusement I'll skip sand blasting
and rub down with tools etc and drink the savings.

but its
rub down (not paint strip), rust treat, prime * 3, semi gloss black
no clearcoat. (as if a nick , so easy to repair and original
never had clearcoat.)

surely I cant be the only one who thinks powder
coating finish is not a fitting look ?
you need to have sweated over your bike to enjoy it.

 

[Guest]

powder coat is not all it's cracked up to be. it's only good until something pokes a hole in that plastic coating. Then water and corrosion will work it's way undermining the coating. I used to be so obsessive about the finishes on my machines until I got older and realized nothing lasts long- in the end if you actually use the thing. put about as much time and love into it as you can afford and enjoy it as long as it lasts and forget about the regrets. I have an old offroad VW bug that I've been saying I'm gonna restore to mint condition, but honestly I've had more fun in that holey thing because I haven't had to worry about wrecking it. I say spend your money on keeping it mechanically sound. That's the least you owe an old machine. If you're well-off make her pretty. I guarantee the bike doesn't care. I've had some cheap paint jobs last me a lot longer than I ever expected and some jobs I put a lot of thought and effort into that quickly disappointed me. Great thing is this vintage of bike looks good with a slight oxidized black paint job. And if you do it cheap you can redo it again in a couple years and not feel bad about it!

 

[Nessism]

It's not just the top coat that's important, it's the prep work too. Powdercoaters sandblast before coating and that's a huge plus. There is almost no possible way to remove all the rust that forms around the bracketery without blasting. Your rattle can job will look good for a while and then that rust will start to show through where the rust wasn't removed.

Below shows some photos of my KZ frame restore. It was a lot of work but the results were good. Steps involve: degrease, chemical strip, phosphoric acid wash, wire wheel, sand blast around brackets and add some tooth, and lastly paint with epoxy primer and single stage urethane.

.

P1010420 by nessism, on Flickr

P1010424 by nessism, on Flickr

P1010432 by nessism, on Flickr

P1010435 by nessism, on Flickr

P1010475 by nessism, on Flickr

P1010487 by nessism, on Flickr

 

[wyly]

Rattle can works fine.
Prep is everything, do it right.
Prime.
Dupli color has worked well for me in the past.


A more expensive option. Two step rattle can.

First step are your colour coats. A body shop supply distributor can put any colour you want in a can.

2nd step, before your colour coat has fully dried start applying clear coats, a good clear coat will protect your paint from oil and gas. Eastwood makes a great clear coat in different finishes, flat, semi gloss.

 

[salty_monk]

You have a couple of great resources in the UK - https://www.dinitroldirect.com/ & https://www.rust.co.uk/product/cat/rust-removing-treatments-16

Powdercoat is better until it chips & then it's very hard to repair. If you are going to keep on top of it every year then paint will be fine...

 

[ukjules]

Thanks for feedback.
i agree totally with edgecrusher however.
Mechanically perfect is the number one priority
and with me value is required on the bodywork.
Also the satisfaction of doing it yourself cannot
be matched by farming it off to a sprayers.

I did a test on my silver rusty Rd250 tank
to see if you can spray up with the cheapest
of rattle cans from halfords. As i was told you could
not get a good finish.

of course preparation is everything , the steps
to make it good are all known but it is very possible.
The finish is exactly what I want and seems to look old by default.


Doing this on another and 4 years on not a spec of rust coming
through. (I use phosphoric acid for my rust eradication)

I have a thread for my gsx tank that is underway
using the same method. This tank was terrible
with surface rust that I sanded out and treated.

if I can stop riding 4 bikes I'll do the gsx's
frame this winter and do a thread and we
can evaluate.

 

[LAB3]

I've never tried it not seen it done but I have to wonder how pick up truck bed liner would do on a frame, it's pretty tough stuff!

 

[nvr2old]

I've painted a LOT of frames due to what I thought would be an excessive charge for powder coat. Prepping a frame..correctly.. is a p-i-t-a. Stripping with a chemical airplane stripper speeds up the process, but it's really nasty to work with. If you sand it, there are SO many places you can't get your fingers into, so many welds that have to be sanded. It takes hours and hours..and material costs to boot. I broke down and finally powder coated the frame, swing arm, battery box and all the brackets for my 1000S and it turned out fantastic..for $200. I just dropped it off, they did all the sand blasting and coating and it's held up w/o so much as a single scratch or chip for 9 years now. There's a ton of finishes available..satin, matte, gloss..whatever you want. Personally I like gloss.

 

[Guest]

I've done both... hand prepared and painted my 450 frame, and had the Kat frame sand blasted and powder coated.

Part way through hand sanding the 450 frame I promised myself I would never ever ever ever ever punish myself like that again... as others have stated getting it sanded properly is nigh on impossible with hand sanding due to nooks and crannies and welds. I used a self levelling paint I brushed on (POR 15 Blackcote) rather than spraying, and yeah it's held up ok but has rubbed through in places where the clutch/throttle cables and control block wiring rubs. The paint cost less than getting the Kat frame blasted and coated, but the effort... there is no way on earth I would do it again.

The Kat frame cost $AU150 to get both blasted and powdercoated, and that included the engine mounts and top triple clamp all in red as well as the side stand in black.

I know what I'm doing next time 'round as well...

 

[ukjules]

ok ok ok ....
word of mouth and experience is not to be overlooked.

I can see that sand blasting is probably the way and
as informed it is not that expensive.
Then the option of spraying oneself can still be done easily.

When someone says they would never do it manually again
I recall the work spraying my RD and Kwak wheels.
Sounds simple but not so !!!! the work is massive to get them right.

life is prob too short for hand / and tool sanding a frame maybe.
but not for rattle can spraying after .

plan :
sand blast frame
rust treat
prime
base coat black semi gloss
(option of semi gloss clearcoat- didn't know that existed)

 

[Agemax]

powder coating is the only way to go in my opinion. far outlasts any spray paint.
Despite other peoples opinion, PC is easily touched up in the event of a stone chip or deep scratch.
My local powder coater showed me how. Just get a small pot and get them to fill it with the same powder they use for your parts. in the event of a chip, mix a small amount of the powder with acetone to form a reasonably thick paste. dab it on to the chipped area and leave it for a few hours for the acetone to evaporate. then flame it gently with a butane/propane torch, waving it over from a distance until the powder melts and it will blend into the affected area with almost no visible signs of a repair.

 

[Guest]

Ah that's an awesome tip! I'm storing that away especially for the Kat as I was wondering how I'd deal with the inevitable stone chips on that bright red frame.

 

[salty_monk]

powder coating is the only way to go in my opinion. far outlasts any spray paint.
Despite other peoples opinion, PC is easily touched up in the event of a stone chip or deep scratch.
My local powder coater showed me how. Just get a small pot and get them to fill it with the same powder they use for your parts. in the event of a chip, mix a small amount of the powder with acetone to form a reasonably thick paste. dab it on to the chipped area and leave it for a few hours for the acetone to evaporate. then flame it gently with a butane/propane torch, waving it over from a distance until the powder melts and it will blend into the affected area with almost no visible signs of a repair.

Nice tip, I guess that's something we never attempted commercially so makes sense. To be honest on a frame you could probably get away with a paint touch up over the powder if necessary. Not that visible..

Getting a frame ready for paint is a lot of work for sure..... I might also be tempted to go powder if it's cheap enough

 

[GregT]

powder coating is the only way to go in my opinion. far outlasts any spray paint.
Despite other peoples opinion, PC is easily touched up in the event of a stone chip or deep scratch.
My local powder coater showed me how. Just get a small pot and get them to fill it with the same powder they use for your parts. in the event of a chip, mix a small amount of the powder with acetone to form a reasonably thick paste. dab it on to the chipped area and leave it for a few hours for the acetone to evaporate. then flame it gently with a butane/propane torch, waving it over from a distance until the powder melts and it will blend into the affected area with almost no visible signs of a repair.

Interesting. In my experience with powdercoated frames, the problems start when water can get underneath the coating. Once that's started it's impossible to stop it spreading. repairs as suggested would certainly help - if the scratch is seen in time.

Personally, I won't now powdercoat a frame. I have available locally both gritblasting companies and industrial painters who will do baked enamel at very reasonable cost. Most of my stuff is racebike - for which you want easy paint removal for frame repair and an easy touchup process.
The frames I make, alter or restore, once ready for paint, go to a gritblaster who also primes the freshly blasted frame. Then across town to the guy doing the baked enamel.

Until the early 2000's I had access to cheap powdercoating - my brother owned a company doing it. He was working to the standard required for defence force contracts so they knew what they were doing....I showed him some examples of why I wouldn't continue to use him but he couldn't come up with anything better.