Front brakes Dragging/Seized

[Detman101]

Taken from the Discussion area...

Bleed um out yourself buddy. You can do it for 99 cents worth of brake fluid. Just run it through until it is clear. Hopefully it isn't so dirty that there is a clog

Unfortunatly that is usually what causes your condition.

Hmmm...where do the clogs usually happen? I heard about a release valve/port somewhere in the master cylinder. Is that vent on the piston or somewhere?

Dm of mD

Where I have seen them is usually on the rear caliper. There is a little hole with an o-ring seal that leads the fluid to the piston on the other side. I have never had a front clog on me so I am not sure but would guess anywhere.

Hey! Were thread hi-jacking, sorry about that. maybe take this to the tech section?

I think you got it though. Your on the right path now. If you can't get the clog clear take the banjo off both ends and use a log air pressure (like 40 lbs or less) and try to blow things backwards starting at the bleeder. Then the hose. Don't do it to the master cylinder.

If you still can't get it take the caliper apart. That may be best to just do anyway. They are really simple and you'll have no trouble once you see how it is built.
_________________
Mark
1978 GS1000C Burgundy
1978 GS1000C Blue

My front brakes are seized and dragging once I ride about a block.
Where do I find the area that is causing the fluid not to drain.
I figure these to be my options.

1. take apart caliper and lube/clean all parts...then rebleed the system.
2. Take apart the Master cylinder and clean it/look for clogs (Where would the clog be at though?)
3. Take off all hoses and flush with pressure cleaner.

Advice please...

Thank you,
Dm of mD

 

[Hoomgar]

I would go with number one first dood. I believe that is all your going to need. After you have it back together be sure to run plenty of clean fluid through it before stopping and then checking the bleed.

Be carefull not to get any contaminants in the fluid, ie... dirty fingers, dirts particles.

I really feel that is going to fix you up

All the seals and parts can be ordered from Bikebandit or other online venders. You might want to just go ahead and look first though. If the seal and all the rubber bits still look good there is no need to replace them.

 

[Detman101]

Kewl, I looked at the caliper yesterday and there are no leaks at the seals and pistons/piston rubber boots.

So...I'm going to venture taking it apart. Would you recommend using pipe cleaners inside the caliper? Will I need anything beyond just brake fluid? I bought half a gallon of brake fluid from autozone yesterday thinking I was going to need that much :lol:.

I heard someone say to go around the pistons with a q-tip soaked in brake fluid to clean them.

Thank you,
Dm of mD

 

[Hoomgar]

Kewl, I looked at the caliper yesterday and there are no leaks at the seals and pistons/piston rubber boots.

So...I'm going to venture taking it apart. Would you recommend using pipe cleaners inside the caliper? Will I need anything beyond just brake fluid? I bought half a gallon of brake fluid from autozone yesterday thinking I was going to need that much :lol:.

I heard someone say to go around the pistons with a q-tip soaked in brake fluid to clean them.

Thank you,
Dm of mD

I do it like this. Make sure you have ALL rubber parts and seals out. So all you have left is the metal caliper. Then clean it all out with a good cleaner. I like to use Berkible 2+2 carb cleaner. If you used spray bomb paint on your calipers that will take it off though. But the factory paint will be fine. Just make sure you clean it all back out then.

If you don't feel safe with a cleaner (I do it all the time and never had an issue) then the other method may be OK. I don't like the idea of pipe cleaners or q-tips due to the possibility of them leaving fibers in the caliper.

What ever you do, rince it all out with rubbing alcohol really good to clean up and dry up anything left in it. Then blow it out nice and clean and dry with an air compressor then. Once you have it clean and dry then wipe off all the rubber bits with a clean lint free rag (t-shirt material is best) and some brake fluid. Put it back together.

Make sure you don't leave any cleaners or fibers behind no matter what route you go. Contaminants in the system are very bad.

When you re-wetup remember to just get it flowing through before you worry about bleeding. Open the bleeder and let it open and pump. Pump slowly using full passes in and out both directions slow. No fast pumping.

If you can't get the fluid to start down the line loosen it at the master cylinder banjo and put a rag under there and try to get it bled through there first. Then tighten that back up and move on down.

Make sure you never let the reservoir get low enough to suck air in.

Have at it buddy. You'll get it

 

[Detman101]

Kewl, I looked at the caliper yesterday and there are no leaks at the seals and pistons/piston rubber boots.

So...I'm going to venture taking it apart. Would you recommend using pipe cleaners inside the caliper? Will I need anything beyond just brake fluid? I bought half a gallon of brake fluid from autozone yesterday thinking I was going to need that much :lol:.

I heard someone say to go around the pistons with a q-tip soaked in brake fluid to clean them.

Thank you,
Dm of mD

God bless you man. I'm going to leave work early today and go home to try this out. I'm going to fix this!

Thanks so much dude for the help! Do you think that a can of compressed air will be enough? I've got one that I use for cleaning the computer parts.

Dm of mD

I do it like this. Make sure you have ALL rubber parts and seals out. So all you have left is the metal caliper. Then clean it all out with a good cleaner. I like to use Berkible 2+2 carb cleaner. If you used spray bomb paint on your calipers that will take it off though. But the factory paint will be fine. Just make sure you clean it all back out then.

If you don't feel safe with a cleaner (I do it all the time and never had an issue) then the other method may be OK. I don't like the idea of pipe cleaners or q-tips due to the possibility of them leaving fibers in the caliper.

What ever you do, rince it all out with rubbing alcohol really good to clean up and dry up anything left in it. Then blow it out nice and clean and dry with an air compressor then. Once you have it clean and dry then wipe off all the rubber bits with a clean lint free rag (t-shirt material is best) and some brake fluid. Put it back together.

Make sure you don't leave any cleaners or fibers behind no matter what route you go. Contaminants in the system are very bad.

When you re-wetup remember to just get it flowing through before you worry about bleeding. Open the bleeder and let it open and pump. Pump slowly using full passes in and out both directions slow. No fast pumping.

If you can't get the fluid to start down the line loosen it at the master cylinder banjo and put a rag under there and try to get it bled through there first. Then tighten that back up and move on down.

Make sure you never let the reservoir get low enough to suck air in.

Have at it buddy. You'll get it

 

[Hoomgar]

Do you think that a can of compressed air will be enough? I've got one that I use for cleaning the computer parts.

Dm of mD

I'd be leary of that. It can often let a wet residue behind but if you let the part air dry a bit then in the sun if possible then you should be OK.

Make sure you use the rubbing alcohol last! That will be the most important part especially since you don't have an air compressor.

 

[earlfor]

Re: Front brakes Dragging/Seized

The return passageway is clogged. Remove the fluid from your master cylinder and remove the plastic cup in the cylinder. Beneath that cup, you will find the return passageway.

Earl

Hmmm...where do the clogs usually happen? I heard about a release valve/port somewhere in the master cylinder. Is that vent on the piston or somewhere?

 

[Detman101]

Re: Front brakes Dragging/Seized

The return passageway is clogged. Remove the fluid from your master cylinder and remove the plastic cup in the cylinder. Beneath that cup, you will find the return passageway.

I take it that I have to drain the brakes to do this right?
I mean, I need to flush them anyway so could I just drain the entire system when I take off the caliper and then take off the plastic cup from the master cylinder?

Also, should I remove the MC from the handlebars to do this?


Dm of mD

 

[Hoomgar]

Re: Front brakes Dragging/Seized

The return passageway is clogged. Remove the fluid from your master cylinder and remove the plastic cup in the cylinder. Beneath that cup, you will find the return passageway.

I take it that I have to drain the brakes to do this right?
I mean, I need to flush them anyway so could I just drain the entire system when I take off the caliper and then take off the plastic cup from the master cylinder?

Also, should I remove the MC from the handlebars to do this?


Dm of mD

You are going to drain the whole system yes. Clean it all up now that you are going this far.

I thought only one caliper was hanging up though so that is why I figured your master cylinder was OK? I think I misunderstood. This is a single front caliper bike then?

I would leave it mounted. It makes it easier to work with. Just protect your surfaces with rags. You don't want any brake fluid getting on your home grown tank paint job. It will melt the paint right off. It's hydrolic fluid.

 

[Detman101]

Re: Front brakes Dragging/Seized

The return passageway is clogged. Remove the fluid from your master cylinder and remove the plastic cup in the cylinder. Beneath that cup, you will find the return passageway.

I take it that I have to drain the brakes to do this right?
I mean, I need to flush them anyway so could I just drain the entire system when I take off the caliper and then take off the plastic cup from the master cylinder?

Also, should I remove the MC from the handlebars to do this?


Dm of mD

You are going to drain the whole system yes. Clean it all up now that you are going this far.

I thought only one caliper was hanging up though so that is why I figured your master cylinder was OK? I think I misunderstood. This is a single front caliper bike then?

I would leave it mounted. It makes it easier to work with. Just protect your surfaces with rags. You don't want any brake fluid getting on your home grown tank paint job. It will melt the paint right off. It's hydrolic fluid.

Okay, I will drain the entire system and refill after cleaning up this MC.
Yes, it's a dual-disc brake system up front. Is there anything different that I need to look for or pay attention to?

Okay, I will leave the MC base mount on the handlebars and avoid ruining my nice paintjob.

Thanks again bud,
Dm of mD


Edit: Man I can't wait to get home!!

 

[earlfor]

Re: Front brakes Dragging/Seized

if when you bleed the brakes, you fit a /14" tube over the bleeder nipple and run it into brake fluid, it will siphon brake fluid instead of air. That will speed up the bleeding process a bit. Also, if you have way of pumping fluid into the system through the bleeder valve to fill it, you wont be pushing air into the system in the first place. Any air will be pushed up and out into the master reservoir. The problem with bleeding brakes by pumping the brake lever is you're pumping air bubbles down and air naturally want to travel up.

Earl

The return passageway is clogged. Remove the fluid from your master cylinder and remove the plastic cup in the cylinder. Beneath that cup, you will find the return passageway.

I take it that I have to drain the brakes to do this right?
I mean, I need to flush them anyway so could I just drain the entire system when I take off the caliper and then take off the plastic cup from the master cylinder?

Also, should I remove the MC from the handlebars to do this?


Dm of mD

You are going to drain the whole system yes. Clean it all up now that you are going this far.

I thought only one caliper was hanging up though so that is why I figured your master cylinder was OK? I think I misunderstood. This is a single front caliper bike then?

I would leave it mounted. It makes it easier to work with. Just protect your surfaces with rags. You don't want any brake fluid getting on your home grown tank paint job. It will melt the paint right off. It's hydrolic fluid.

Okay, I will drain the entire system and refill after cleaning up this MC.
Yes, it's a dual-disc brake system up front. Is there anything different that I need to look for or pay attention to?

Okay, I will leave the MC base mount on the handlebars and avoid ruining my nice paintjob.

Thanks again bud,
Dm of mD


Edit: Man I can't wait to get home!!

 

[Detman101]

Re: Front brakes Dragging/Seized

if when you bleed the brakes, you fit a /14" tube over the bleeder nipple and run it into brake fluid, it will siphon brake fluid instead of air. That will speed up the bleeding process a bit. Also, if you have way of pumping fluid into the system through the bleeder valve to fill it, you wont be pushing air into the system in the first place. Any air will be pushed up and out into the master reservoir. The problem with bleeding brakes by pumping the brake lever is you're pumping air bubbles down and air naturally want to travel up.

Earl

Can something like what you speak of be created?
I've heard tale of using a 60mm syringe with a hose attached?
Do you know more on how this works?


If I use the traditional method that will just mean using more brake fluid to flush the bubbles out right?


Dm of mD

 

[earlfor]

Re: Front brakes Dragging/Seized

A small, pump up insect sprayer will work and I see no reason a large syringe would not work. Being an RC model airplane and helicopter enthusiast, I have a small spare electric fuel pump normally used to pump nitromethane that works well for this.


How it works?.............. you're pushing fluid in from the bottom upwards.
Air travels up. Filling this way is self bleeding.

yep, you will use more fluid doing it the traditional way. More time too.
It takes me about 15 minutes to bleed a dual brake system.

Earl

[/quote]

Can something like what you speak of be created?
I've heard tale of using a 60mm syringe with a hose attached?
Do you know more on how this works?


If I use the traditional method that will just mean using more brake fluid to flush the bubbles out right?


Dm of mD[/quote]

 

[Hoomgar]

This is the good stuff. Another tool to make and add to my arsenal!


Thx Earl

 

[Detman101]

Post up a pic when you create yours please.

I'm going to go with the traditional method as I don't have the time to fab up the tool tonight. This is my last free night and that is IF the wife goes to the womens convention.

Man, if her friend she is riding with cancells I'm gonna murder someone.

:roll:
Dm of mD

 

[Detman101]

DANGIT DANGIT DANGIT!!!

Got dragged kicking and screaming to that stupid womens convention in DC with the wife. :evil: Her friend HAD to frickin bail out the last free night of the week that I would have had. :x :x :x :x

So repairs will have to wait until next monday since the wife isn't working today thru sunday (grumble). This weekend is gonna suck....


Dm of mD

 

[Hoomgar]

:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:


I feel for you buddy Really. But just remember, she is worth it. Right? :?

You'll get-r-done man

 

[Detman101]

I took the master cyclinder all apart and cleaned it out with with brake fluid and brake cleaner and put it back together and remounted it back on the bike. I have pumped and pumped the handle but cant get any presure in the brake handle. I gonna mess with it some more today.

I did the same thing this weekend and can't get any pressure at the master cylinder lever.

Someone told me that I need to "Bleed the master cylinder" by taking off the banjo bolt at the master cylinder and sticking my finger over the hole and squeezing the lever until the fluid starts to come out of the spigot leading off of the master cylinder where the banjo bolt hooks into it.

I tried it for about 5 minutes but my brake lever won't come all the way back out to where it gets a full squeeze. It only comes out about halfway like the spring is stuck or something. I took apart the Master Cylinder and cleaned out the little spooge holes like it says here....
http://www.xs11.com/forum/showthread.php?s=c5a9ccbd57c887b88b1d45afc0910bc2&threadid=14
But I still can't get the "piston" off because I can't find this "Snap-ring" that the clymers manual talks about. I think that I can't see it because the piston spring will not fully extend and the piston is halfway stuck inside the MC housing.

Any advice anyone?

Dm of mD

 

[Detman101]

Before you start to bleed your brakes, tape a block of wood to the throttle grip, behind the brake lever, to prevent over-extending the lever. Use short strokes. If you find your pumping does not push fluid through the bleeder, and you think you have overextended the lever, you will have to dis-assemble the master cylinder and re-position the plunger, if it survived the movement. Clean the master cylinder well prior to disassembly.

Great, does anyone have any tips on taking that piston out? I can't seem to find the snap ring that the manual talks about because the piston is stuck halfway in the housing. Can I pull the plunger out with a pair of channel locks or needle nose pliers???

Damnit, why won't the lever come more than halfway back out?

 

[Hoomgar]

I can't picture it in my mind but can you see it from the other end? Where the banjo goes on? Maybe you can push it back out that way? Sounds like the whole master cylinder needs to come apart now.

I think we need Earl 8-[