Had Problem on the first "real" ride

[eran_k]

I have to share with you guys, i'm relay ****ed and depressed.
took out the bike for a first real ride, all seemed good at first, but after about 20 miles i started to hear a noise from the left side of the motor (i think) but can't really identify what it sounds like. then i came to a red light and it died on me.
i pulled to the side and looked but couldn't see anything visually.
I was able to start again and tried to get back, up shifting was difficult, the engine sounded bad and when i stopped i saw the the Right side of the engine is covered in oil,i couldn't see where it was coming from and it didn't continue to leak when i killed the engine.
I didn't have time to to mess with it so i just left it like this, i'm afraid to try and start it again - who knows what damage i have caused already.
I don't have any ideas where to start looking or what it could be.
one thing i can say is that it didn't feel like its loosing power during the ride at any point. maybe i'm lucky and didn't kill my engine?
I need any advice you can throw at me is i feel helpless right now.
thanks

Eran

 

[Guest]

Hey Eran, that's not good! I feel for you... especially after all that hard work!

What did it sound like? Banging? Scraping? Grinding?

If it was the left side, the first thing I'd do is get the stator cover off and see if the rotor has come loose from the end of the crankshaft.

If it spins on that it's bad, but I believe is recoverable depending on how much damage it may have done.

If oil is coming out the right side, check to see if the oil seal for the crankshaft under the timing cover is sealing ok.

I'm putting this together with what you said about shifting in your other post... I'm wondering if something has gone screwy with your clutch? Maybe get the right side engine cover off for a look-see as well...

 

[Guest]

Need pics or video.

Pull the left cover off and the right cover.
Pull the oil filter and look for aluminum dust.

Did you use any gasket sealant on the side covers?

Did the oil light ever come on ?

 

[eran_k]

Need pics or video.

Will post when i get it back home

Pull the left cover off and the right cover.
Pull the oil filter and look for aluminum dust.

Did you use any gasket sealant on the side covers?

No, just cleaned the mating surface and used new gaskets

Did the oil light ever come on ?

No it was off

 

[eran_k]

I'm suspecting a camshaft cap is loose,could this cause a constant rattle?
when i removed the head during the rebuild, the right intake cam cap had different bolts the the other 3 caps. i had the correct bolts from another motor but they were just spinning so i had to put the non original bolts back. but i cant say they were really tight.
could the(rear) non original bolt punch tru the bottom of the head and cause a small hole?
i think this is where the oil is dripping from ,and it explains why it's not dripping when the engine is off since there's no pressure.

 

[eran_k]

I found the hole, it is under the cam journal bolt

here a photo of the same place on a different head from another angle, this head doesn't have a hole but is not usable due to other issues.

 

[GSX1000E]

If I am seeing those pictures right, you have an oil leak coming right out of the oil galley? If you cannot get it V-ed out and welded, you could prepare the surface accordingly and use hi-temp epoxy to seal it.
Just allow the material to cure for the full 3-4 days.

 

[eran_k]

I hope the cause of the noise is just floating camshaft and not a problems caused by lack of lubrication.
if i have no airbox and the electrics and battery are located elsewhere, can i remove the head with the carbs still attached (pods removed)

 

[Guest]

Its easy enough to drop the carbs off of the head and then just pull the whole head off if you have to. I'd like to see what it looks like under the valve cover though.

Might have to re-tap the holes and use some heli-coils for the cam cap. Its common for people to strip them out.

 

[eran_k]

Well bad news

both cap bolts are stripped,the bolts are actually torn out of the head. the cam chain is quite loose so i guess that whats casued the bolts to get ripped

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jrgk-k9YrEI

* could it be that the tensioner didnt work and the chain might actually be good?
i remeber i measured the chain per the manual and it was within spec

 

[Guest]

Thats not really loose.
I mean once you fix the cam cap, the tensioner should take up all available slack. But rip the tensioner apart and make sure its operating properly.

 

[Guest]

Bummer on the bolts but at least you know now what the issue is.

A good helicoil job will sort those out, it has been done many times before as Stephen said earlier. I know several of the Katana guys I ride with have had to do it, and those things are just a wee bit more powerful than our little twins!

While that chain looks a little looser than mine, I'd also agree it isn't "loose" as such, but if you rebuilt the tensioner (can't remember if you did or not), maybe you didn't put enough tension on the spring while re-assembling?

I'm pretty sure my factory manual lists how many turns the spring should be at but I would have to look it up again to be sure...

 

[eran_k]

i did rebuild the tensioner...well at least took it apart,cleaned it,replaced all o-rings and put it back together, i didn't change the spring inside so it's old, i didn't pay too much attention to the outside spring- i remember i installed the tensioner and reset it according to some text i red somewhere (maybe on bikecliff's site)
maybe i'll replace the chain and guide just to be on the safe side and have some "peace of mind" that everything's as close to new as possible
just to make sure again: the chain and guides are the same for all 400 and 500 twins (mine's the GSX400 with 4 valves per cylinder)

 

[Guest]

The spring inside doesn't matter, As long as its pushing the plunger out its fine.

But the knob on the side is what will lock it down once its moved out far enough.

Although ! once you rev the engine you can see the tensioner backing off and coming back to normal.

That cam bouncing around will cause the tensioner to back out a bit and want to stay there.

I'd say once you fix the cap you'll be alright.

Check the other side though! it might have come loose or stripped the threads on that side just a bit from the cam jumping around.

 

[eran_k]

small update for today,
we sourced new cam chain,new tensioner,new guides.
the head will be sent to the machine shop for fixing the threads and hole.
and hopefully i'll have a reliable engine for many years to come.

 

[Guest]

Glad to hear it!

 

[Charlie G]

Good luck!

 

[steve murdoch]

Good news for a change.
Make sure to report back when you get the engine back from the shop.